BBC Election webcast today…

Providing you can stream video on your machine, you can watch a live webcast with all the major party leaders from BBC NI that starts at 3.15pm BST this afternoon. The BBC’s political editor Mark Devenport is the chair. It should be a good warm up for the main event the this evening at Queens, especially for those of you who are far from ‘home’ and rarely get to see our ‘great leaders’ in action!

  • spirit-level

    Here’s a question for the panel:
    “If the boot was on the other foot, and Irish Imperialism had lead to Cornwall being part of its territory .
    Does the panel really think that the hardline “Irish” in Cornwall protesting their “Irishness” would be afforded the same veto over English attempts to reunify their country as Unionists have in Norn Iron?

  • fair_deal

    spirit level

    The attempt to claim political hegemony over Ulster is irish imperialism

  • spirit-level

    that’s a larf fair-deal
    Read your history:
    Ireland was carved up by the English on e.g Queen Mary’s whim. She, wanting support during the Cath/Prod troubles of the Elizabethan times would offer say the Whole of Wexford to the Duke of Gloucester in return for his support for her.
    As a result of all the indigenous Irish People in Wexford had to submit on pain of death to this Duke ,who was given total authority in Wexford. This meant collecting taxes and forswearing allegiance to the Crown.
    Nice try , better luck next time !

  • fair_deal

    Spirit level

    1. I have a degree in history and know the irish nationalist version when I see it.
    2. Wexford isn’t in Ulster.

  • spirit-level

    Ohh juicy fair-deal
    So you admit this way that way it was..
    I was giving Wexford as an example.

  • spirit-level

    oops sorry tell me your version?

  • spirit-level

    I presume you’re on lunch fair-deal hence the delay in your reply.
    1) Please outline the Books you’ve studied on my point: say “Elizabethan Ireland”
    2)Do you prefer to see the situation as Ireland inviting the English over, to take their women and land, craving good governance and civilisation, because we were to thick to work it out for ourselves..as it were. And therefore willingly kissed your royal arses. And how ungrateful we are. Nothing of Conquest and Carve-up.. where did you do your degree??
    C’mon lets be having it.. I need a good larf.

  • Brian Boru

    spirit-level
    You’ll make Ireland proud one day my son.

  • fair_deal

    Spirit level

    1. Your characterisation of Elizabethan behaviour is simply oversimplistic. It has a representation of bad versus good which is a disservice to genuine historical understanding and merely an attempt to justify a polemic in favour of a modern political ideology.
    2. The core weakness of your argument is ignoring Irish nobles who were fully prepared to particiapte in a ‘carve-up’ if they thought they would be the beneficiaries. Irish nobles who had as little concern for the population as other nobles. Their lack of concern is found in the accounts of the condition of the land and the population in the early reports of the Plantation. The Irish mindset was as trapped as the English mindset in the thought of land first with the people a most decidely poor and distant second.
    3. The claism you make ignore the substantial weakness of royal authority in Ireland. Hence one of the reasons James decided to implement the Ulster plantation.
    3. I do not have my bibliography from a decade ago and I studied at a NI university.
    4. Furthermore history does not make good politics. What X thinks Y did to their great-great-great-great-great-great-great……granny and grandad is utterly irrelevant to sorting out how the various communities share here today. As you said in a different thread on another issue things on the ground can change and they have most decidedly changed since the Tudor period.
    5. Also in answer to your question if there was a majority in Cornwall wished to remain part of ireland the rest of England would have to go hang because the position of Cornwall and its population would be protected by international law – you cannot expel or transfer land from one territory to another without the consent of the population.

    In conclusion irish nationalism needs to deal with the existence of the community to which I belong not retreat to dodgy historical argument to try and tell me why I shouldn’t be here in the first place.

  • spirit-level

    Well I did ask fer it didn’t I.
    Aye well back to me tinkers van, pig’s arsh, cabbage and shpuds, get meself blacked up fer tonite’s theiving . I bow to your cultural superiority.
    Ah will you give us back that ol bit o turf now;)

  • David Cather

    Didn’t the Gaels invade Ireland around 400BC so doesn’t the country really belong to whoever was here before that?

  • IJP

    Er… 2005, anyone?

    The webcast?

    Not the party leaders actually, Mick, David Ford is at a funeral (before anyone asks…)

  • George

    Fair Deal,
    do you have a degree in history or His Story as Chuck D would say?
    How’s your geography because I seem to recall you thinking Ulster only had six counties?

    If you ever want to fully understand the folly and downright selfishness of “Ulster” unionism, may I recommend a drive to beautiful Donegal, where I was last week, jettisoned by Carson to save “Ulster” from too large a Catholic minority.

    Now 80 years down the line Northern Ireland has the equivalent Catholic minority that it would have had in 1921 with Donegal and what do we hear from the outer extremes of unionism?

    Yep – you guessed it repartition.

    Who are the “Ulster” unionists going to jettison to “save Ulster” this time around.

    Fermanagh and Tyrone come on down!

  • IJP

    jettisoned by Carson

    No it wasn’t.

    Besides, I thought fair_deal‘s point was that it’s time to deal with 2005, not 1915.

    Or is that ‘selfish’?

    Now, where’s this webcast…

  • spirit-level

    IJP am watching it live, goto the webpage and back space one slash and you’ll see it Webcast

  • fair_deal

    George

    Chuck D, a superb rapper and one of my favourite lyrics.

    We have previously discussed the differing historical and competing definitions of Ulster. However, in none of our debates am I aware of either of us advocating Wexford as part of any of the definitions.

    Carson did not jettison the three counties – at the meeting when the decision was made to accept the compromise proposal of six counties the decision was left in the hands of the delegates from the three excluded counties.

    “Yep – you guessed it repartition”
    Please enlighten me who has advocated this?

  • spirit-level

    fair-deal
    5 well argued points. I can write like that, and am working on a medical approach to the stalemate in Norn Iron. I hope you will be suitably impressed when I’ve completed it.
    Thanks for taking the time. I wasn’t aware of the degree to whch the irish nobles were complicit and it kinda ruins my thrust.
    Perphas I should pick another century.

  • fair_deal

    Spirit level

    Thank you for your kind comments. I look forward to your approach to the stalemate.

    I think no matter what century you choose you will find lots of transference or cover up/denial of our respective rights and wrongs.

  • IJP

    Thanks spirit-level

  • spirit-level

    Welcome IJP
    Still waiting for Mick’s live blog to appear
    Barnshee what’s your beef? Open up
    Ball not man remember!

  • A.U

    Barnshee – those ex-posts were unacceptable.

  • Cahal

    George
    “Who are the “Ulster” unionists going to jettison to “save Ulster” this time around.

    Fermanagh and Tyrone come on down! “

    Hi sir, what about Derry?