Professor invites Adams and Ervine to debate punishment beatings

Professor Liam Kennedy has asked Gerry Adams and David Ervine to discuss why, having been publicly opposed to punishment attacks since he last ran in West Belfast, that Northern Ireland has continued to witness brutal attacks on youths and children across the Loyalist/Republican divide.

  • David Vance

    Why does the Professor have to even ask the question when the answer is apparent? The UVF and IRA place themselves above the law and will ruthlessly impose their own toxic version of it until such times as they are militarily crushed and politically banished. Whilst Adams and Ervine are fawned over by a gutless media you can bet that punishment mutilations of children will continue.

  • Circles

    This is more of a trick really from the good Professor – he knows he won’t be talking to the people who decide that these things happen, and still he somehow wants to score a few points.
    Sorry prof – your motivation lead a little to be desired

  • spirit-level

    Mr Vance “militarily crushed”.. no no no
    Its the walls that need to come down.

  • John O’Connell

    David Vance

    You and people like you had a good go at doing that during the Troubles and failed. I would safely say that if you tried to crush these people you would find that they are perfectly able to crush you.

    Conversion is what is needed.

  • Solomon

    Professor invites Adams and Ervine to debate punishment beatings!
    Ervine: “I find baseball bat to the back of the knees works best.”
    Adams: “Nooo way, its has to be a hurley stick… in keeping with culture.”

  • David Vance

    “You and people like you”… yes, that’s what I expect from some Slugger correspondents.

    I appreciate that there is a section of people here that believes that terrorism cannot be defeated. I do subscribe to that view that dead terrorists are somewhat less mencing than live ones. I believe that putting terrorists behind bars stops murders in bars. I believe that if we punish those who direct and control punishment beatings – gasp – then they too will be rather less active.

    The truth is that conversion to a godless faith in the hoods and gangsters is worthless, but there are some that just don’t get – do they John? You should read the wisdom of Solomon – he does get it!

  • David Vance

    “You and people like you”… yes, that’s what I expect from some Slugger correspondents.

    I appreciate that there is a section of people here that believes that terrorism cannot be defeated. I do subscribe to that view and believe that dead terrorists are somewhat less dangerous than live ones. I believe that putting terrorists behind bars stops murders in bars. I believe that if we punish those who direct and control punishment beatings – gasp – then they too will be rather less active.

    The truth is that conversion to a godless faith in the hoods and gangsters that terrorise swathes of this province is worthless, but there are some that just don’t get – right, John?

    You should read the wisdom of Solomon – he does get it!

  • kitty

    “I appreciate that there is a section of people here that believes that terrorism cannot be defeated.”

    Rarely is, successfully or premanently.

    “I do subscribe to that view that dead terrorists are somewhat less mencing than live ones.”

    Does that include state terrorists- i.e. members of state and government who direct terrorism?

    “I believe that putting terrorists behind bars stops murders in bars.”

    Again, does that include state terrorists?

    “I believe that if we punish those who direct and control punishment beatings – gasp – then they too will be rather less active.”

    How about those in UDR/RUC British Army uniforms who beat up young lads on the road for no other reason than they are from a Nationalist community? How do we punish them?

  • Thora’s alive

    We’re kind of getting off the point. Punishment beatings do happen. They shouldn’t happen and they shouldn’t be part of society, they certainly can’t be part of a civilized society. If civic leaders aren’t prepared to say that these things have to stop and advocate what goes in their place…then we’re never going to move on.

  • spirit-level

    well what we do is persuade them we accept their religion in return for our land.
    And we all live jolly well happy hereafter.

  • Solomon

    How about those in UDR/RUC British Army uniforms who beat up young lads on the road for no other reason than they are from a Nationalist community? How do we punish them?

    With a baseball bat or a hurley stick?

  • Solomon

    I personally abhor punishment beatings, especially when so often its more about control than any punishment.

  • kitty

    “How about those in UDR/RUC British Army uniforms who beat up young lads on the road for no other reason than they are from a Nationalist community? How do we punish them?

    With a baseball bat or a hurley stick?”

    Well…….
    But the questions I posed stand. Do you have an answer?

  • Solomon

    Nope, I dont have an answer. Although some sort of complaints procedure would be the imaginable way to go.

  • kitty

    “If civic leaders aren’t prepared to say that these things have to stop and advocate what goes in their place…then we’re never going to move on.”

    Well I am not a civic leader but here it is- these beatings MUST stop and we MUST have a police force. So how do we create a police force that can be trusted by all sectons of the community? How do young Nationalist men trust those who not too long ago ( and in some cases to the present day) beat the shite out of them every time they were unlucky enough to run into them. And how about the Unionists, how do they trust a police force that may include former paramilitaries who fought them and their state for 30 odd years? Quite the dilemma, isn’t it?

  • kitty

    “Although some sort of complaints procedure would be the imaginable way to go.”

    Now who is it one would complain to?

  • Solomon

    Said before, I dont have an answer. although what do you mean by “Well….” at my facetious remark about bats and stick?

  • kitty

    “although what do you mean by “Well….” at my facetious remark about bats and stick?”

    What did I mean by ‘Well……….’?
    Well…………………………
    Maybe my ‘well’ was what your ‘facetious remark’ deserved?

  • Alan McDonald

    Kitty,

    The answer in your context is the Ombudsman.

  • spirit-level

    Kitty,
    What we have do is stop hating each other; stop being afraid of each other; stop being manipulated by our leaders.
    STOP STOP STOP all that carry on!

    Tear down the walls, smash strong-holds of fear, break through moulds,and rise up with eagles-wings…. this has to be a Berlin-style onslaught. Nothing else will do.
    Most of this is internal. Ya dig ?

  • spirit-level

    I refer to the Berlin wall coming down, not Lebensraum 🙂

  • Solomon

    Well…
    fair enough

  • NewYorker

    It is absurd to think that paramilitaries could not be removed by military action. If it is decided that that is the only way to rid NI of paramilitaries, some laws are changed or suspended, and a province wide and ROI campaign is undertaken, the paramilitaries would be wound up in a short period of time. To think otherwise is totally unrealistic. Perhaps there is already a military plan under consideration. Generals usually have plans for most courses of action at the ready, should they be asked for one by their civilian superiors.

  • kitty

    “It is absurd to think that paramilitaries could not be removed by military action. If it is decided that that is the only way to rid NI of paramilitaries, some laws are changed or suspended, and a province wide and ROI campaign is undertaken, the paramilitaries would be wound up in a short period of time. To think otherwise is totally unrealistic. Perhaps there is already a military plan under consideration. Generals usually have plans for most courses of action at the ready, should they be asked for one by their civilian superiors.”

    Tell that to the families of Brigid Anne Mallon and Kathleen O’Hagan, ‘Donald’!!!!

  • kitty

    “The answer in your context is the Ombudsman.”

    Sure it is.

  • Solomon

    Ombudsman
    Thanks Alan.

  • Alan McDonald

    You’re welcome, Solomon.

    I’m not quite sure, but I’m guessing that Kitty did not like my answer. Since Kitty’s April 19, 2005 10:56 PM comment seemed to aks a question about police misconduct, the Ombudsman seemed to be the logical answer. Not rocket science, you know.

  • Solomon

    Never needed to make a complaint to the PSNI/BA, but I figured there was at least a method of doing so.

  • PatMcLarnon

    Kennedy seems to have lost his bearings. The areas with the worst rates of punishment shootings and beatings etc are South Antrim, North Down and East Belfast. But then again Adams is the bogey man and Kennedys candidacy in unionist areas, although more honest, wouldn’t get the hacks interested.

    He is a charlatan. Hopefully he will receive the same drubbing he achieved in a previous election.

  • JD

    The areas with the worst rates of punishment shootings and beatings etc are South Antrim, North Down and East Belfast.

    Hi Pat,

    Where did you get your figures? Could you point me to the source (genuine interest, BTW).

  • jeff

    There isn’t anyone left with kneecaps in some loyalist areas of Newtownabbey

  • Solomon

    Hate to be pedantic but he did invite Ervine also.

  • Mick

    I understand Ervine’s not standing for Westminster.

  • harry

    He is standing for Belfast city Council