Robert McCartney Vigil

The sisters and fiancée of Robert McCartney held a vigil outside Magennis’ Bar yesterday. Paula McCartney spoke to the media afterwards, as reported by the BBC, and also UTV. “The fact that people are still not arrested, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that they are being protected.” Sinn Féin’s Alex Maskey and Gerry Kelly were there but didn’t make a statement, according to the UTV report because it was “a religious service”, although a Sinn Féin spokesman is quoted – “They were there to show their continued support for the family.” The SDLP’s Alasdair McDonnell didn’t seem to mind, nor to be concerned about that SF writ, “Three months on, it is clear that they[Sinn Féin and the IRA] were only interested in taking the heat off themselves – not getting truth and justice for the McCartneys.”

  • westy

    200 people attended the meeting outside the bar
    Hardly a sign of continued support

  • Tiny

    200 people attended the meeting outside the bar
    Hardly a sign of continued support

    Posted by: westy

    What were 200 hundred people doing standing in the rain and no doubt under the gaze of those that killed Robert McCartney if they were’t showing support?

  • Jimmy_Sands

    Well according to a letter in today’s Angrytown News, the whole thing was a big misunderstanding:

    “Clean-up was a routine one

    I would like to respond to the accusations of a forensic clean-up that the McCartney family claim took place in Magennis’s Bar on the night that Robert McCartney got stabbed.

    A stabbing that did not take place in the bar, but at least a block away from the bar.

    A member of my family was working in the bar on the night in question. As part of their paid employment one of the duties is to ensure a clean and hazard-free bar.

    This young person cleaned up the broken glass and mess left after a row in the bar (in the same manner in which they would clean up any other night).

    If the family have so much trust in the PSNI, then ask them why this person voluntarily sat for three hours of interrogation and answered all questions, freely admitting carrying out full duties in work that night.

    This was not a made-up story or a cover-up, only facts from a frightened young bar employee.

    My young relative is a hardworking honest young person, and not a forensic cleaner for anyone.

    I demand that the McCartney family leave my young relative alone. “

    (Thanks to [gulp] Napper for the heads-up)

  • westy

    Eight weeks of sustained publicity surrounding the events and only 200 bother to turn up.

    Hardly a sign of huge support

    It rains all the time in this country

  • fair_deal

    A letter to the Angrytown, LOL.

    Yes indeed McCartney was stabbed outside but Devine had his throat slashed inside the bar. A curious ommission from the letter.

    Also as both incidents were connected they were an important part of the forensic/evidence trail.

    I’ve only drank in Magennis once but is it normal for patrons to go into the kitchens and take sewer rods and a knive most evenings?
    Is it normal for patrons to remove of the CCTV footage?
    Is it normal for their to be threats to all patrons of the bar?
    Who has this young man to be frightened of the McCartney sisters!?!?

    This nonsense may be good enough for the faithful but pretty much everyone else views it as it is an insult to intelligence.

  • Davros

    Hardly a sign of huge support

    As many and probably more as turned up for the Sinn Féin rally to protest at attempts to portray Republicans as criminals ….

    You were saying ? 😉

  • westy

    Davros

    There has been constant publicity about the case and 200 turn up

    Regarding Sinn Fein

    May 5th will decide that issue.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    westy,

    I’m confused. Why would a small turnout be a good sign for a party which claims to support the campaign?

  • Davros

    westy – there was constant publicity in the period leading upto the embarrassingly poorly attended rally in Dublin – after all the SF protest was BECAUSE of all the negative publicity 😉

  • westy

    I don’t recall saying that a small turnout would be a good sign for Sinn Fein (supportive or not)

  • harry

    Davros

    I think the largest attendace at an easter commemoration in Dublin for years,is perhaps a real indicator of support

  • Davros

    harry – It’s certainly an indicator of support for the men who took part in Easter rising 1916 – and I cannot see them approving of IRA criminality or IRA murder of Robert McCartney and the SF leadership’s handling of the crisis. I don’t think it’s reasonable to try and piggyback Republican criminality and butchery onto Connolly et al.

  • Intelligence Insider

    Good to see the naked criminalism that acts as republicanism becoming more transparent in the posts on this topic today. As I mentioned to an American poster on another topic, this is the real reason republicans wont accept policing. They would have nothing to do but arrest themselves. Gansters, robbers, criminals and thugs.

  • harry

    II

    Unlike the Unionist constitutional criminals

    Don’t you read the news!!

  • Davros

    Oh dear harry – I haven’t seen anybody claim that the UUP have tried to obstruct the police in their investigations into the allegations …..

  • harry

    Time will tell

    I am very interested however in the linkage between Copeland and the former uda commander for east belfast,jim gray

  • Needia

    Did they have a collection for their cause/sorry mortgages?. Suppose the rain was worth it as their bank coffers fill. A money making scam and the people are so easily conned.
    Why, I bet they were practically *waiting* for their brother to get stabbed just so they could get money off of it!
    If you’re going to smear someone, try and be original. Or at least try something that doesn’t contradict the ‘they’re getting all their money from X/Y/Z to do all these things’ smear.
    Once again, the human race disgusts me. I wonder how long it’ll be until posters pop up telling us what bastards his kids are.

  • foreign correspondent

    Some members of the human race are disgusting anyway, like those who could sneer at the McCartney family’s fight for justice for their brother. It seems like some people have been so hardened by the years of violence that they can’t see what a sick murder that was; they prefer to wallow in the mire of party-politicking.

  • Young Irelander

    The bravery of the sisters in all of this has to be acknowledged. Despite their brother being murdered by criminals and the sisters being repeatedly threatened they have been brave, strong and sincere. I wish they had stood for election and take on the IRA/SF at their own game. I am sure between Attwood and one the sisters could have taken enough votes off Adams for one of them to win it on transfers.

  • Chris Gaskin

    “I am sure between Attwood and one the sisters could have taken enough votes off Adams for one of them to win it on transfers.”

    With this one comment YI you show your level of political knowledge in relation to these elections.

    They are not PR they are first past the post and there is not a mission of anyone unseating Gerry Adams

  • sean west

    Look lets be serious here.Lots of people have lost relatives during this conflict.But how many got to meet a U S president and the european
    parliament.They are being used by Dublin and London for political gain.How many relatives of dead british soldiers or RUC got the slightest attention.What about Nationalists killed by collusion or Unionists killed by fellow unionists in all the feuds we have had.They have not had the slightest attention.The Mccartney girls and the girlfriend seem like nice girls but they do not seem to mind being patrionised by the likes of David Frost and Jeremy Paxman which is very sad.

  • Davros

    sean- an fhirinne have been to the European parliament. The Finucanes have been regularly in the
    limelight. The republican movement haven’t had a problem with media exposure as long as it was seen as being useful. But suddenly when the RM is getting negative publicity it has become a problem.

  • sean west

    You are joking surely.Can you tell me of one person killed in this conflict who has got the same attention.Since Feburary it has been none stop.

  • Davros

    Sean – How many hundreds of thousands of news items on TV and radion and newspaper artcles have there been about the murder of Pat Finucane ?

  • DerryTerry

    Is Pat Finucane’s murder not worthy of the coverage?

    Or does the narrative of the Finucane murder, hunam rights lawyer murdered at the behest and hands of the state, not fit your analysis of the conflict here as well as the murder of Robert McCartney does?

  • sean west

    O K dav seeing as you ask, not that many.
    And excuse me the new legislation they are bringing in will make sure it stays covered up.
    Savill and Cory have already told any judge to stay away from it.Blair and Murphy talk a good game about justice for the Mccartneys but when will they deliver on Pat Finucane,Rosemary Nelson ,Billy Wright and Robert Hamill.

  • Davros

    O K dav seeing as you ask, not that many.

    you must be kidding.

  • jo

    You are joking surely.Can you tell me of one person killed in this conflict who has got the same attention.Since Feburary it has been none stop.

    …Mr Finucane?

  • Davros

    Is Pat Finucane’s murder not worthy of the coverage?

    Is there a hierarchy of Victims ?

    Why single out Pat Finucane ? How about Judges and other lawyers killed by terrorists? How about kids like Bernard Teggart and Kathryn Eakin ?

    All the murders were wrong and all those involved in them should be in jail. That includes those jailed and let out IMO.

    There are so many layers of dirt and hypocrisy here. Finucane was a lawyer – hell it’s “O.K” to kill ordinary working class people – what was the phrase ? Internal House-keeping ? But Lawyers get different treastment?

    Some of those shouting loudest were involved in crimes every bit as dreadful as happened to Finucane. Some of those people wouldn’t have lost a minutes sleep about ordering his execution if they had found out that Finucane was a British agent.

    The hypocrisy of those using Finucane for political gain and at the same time accusing others of using the McCartney murder for political gain is breathtaking.

  • Ringo

    Well said, Davros.

    It is absolutely disgusting the way low level republican grunts have turned on their own on this one despite the blatant hypocrisy when compared to the Finucane case. I suppose nobody in their closeted community pointed this out, but you’d imagine they might have seen the significance if they’d bothered to think for themselves.

    Interesting to note that most of the seasoned republican posters here aren’t dancing to this tune, just the Johnny-come-latelys plus Dec and DT.

  • Jo

    hmmm..Sean, it would seem you dug the hole….

  • sean west

    Hardly jo.Maybe the Mccartneys will get justice
    maybe they will not.Come back in 16 years time.
    That is how long the Finucanes have had to wait.
    And still the cover up goes on.Ask Judge Cory.

  • DerryTerry

    The hypocrisy of those using Finucane for political gain and at the same time accusing others of using the McCartney murder for political gain is breathtaking.

    Davros, if you cann’t apply the same logic in reverse then you really do have a hierarchy of victims. Either it is wrong or it is not wrong. It surely smacks of hyprocrisy to say its wrong for one but okay for another.

  • Ringo

    sean west

    maybe the Mccartneys will get justice

    not if you or your kindred spirits have anything to do with it, isn’t that right SW?

    DT –

    All but one-eyed Republican and Loyalists thinks that both killings are on the same level. I’m convinced that there was collusion in the Finucane case. To be honest I don’t need an inquiry to tell me this, but I think the family are entitled to it.

    The Irish govenment has put much work into getting justice in both of these cases, but it is hard to see how the RM differs from the British establishment when they both engage in the same stonewalling. Looks like ye’ve a very impressive securocrat operation going on yourselves.

    Now do the decent thing and admit that the smearing and harrassing of the McCartneys is a disgrace, and that the RM has totally deserted them because they don’t want the truth out. You’d have no problem doing it for the Finucanes.

    Or more precisely, you’d have no problem doing it to the people that were responsible for killing Pat Finucane.

  • sean west

    Dear Ringo,
    I would sincerley like the Mccarneys to get to the truth like we all would.If a charge of murder is brought then we will have to see if it was murder or manslaughter, as i am sure any defendant in this case will contest a murder charge.
    We are getting ahead of ourselves here.Every one keeps telling us what happened,some facts would be nice.
    What has upset people though ,is the fact that because and only because of an election we keep hearing about this case.The girls are being used
    and lots of people do not like it.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    McCartney was not the only victim of the IRA anymore than Finucane was the only victim of the British, but sadly the statistics wash over us and the “human interest” angle requires indivdual cases to stand as examples. It happens to be these victims. One could have chosen others. The point in each case remains the same.

  • sean west

    Fair point Jimmy.The fact that he has five sisters is a big plus.Also his girlfriend is pretty attractive.I hope Ted Kennedy did not try it on with them.He is such an awful man.
    It was a bit rich of him attacking old Gerry
    after he left his babe to die in that car at
    Chappaquidick.What a total hypocrite.

  • Ringo

    I would sincerley like the Mccarneys to get to the truth like we all would.
    I don’t believe you. You want the same as the British want from the collusion cases – a sanitised verdict that white-washes the grubby truth.

    We are getting ahead of ourselves here.Every one keeps telling us what happened,some facts would be nice.
    Really. How exactly is this different rom th Finucane case. Let me tell you – no different.

    What has upset people though ,is the fact that because and only because of an election we keep hearing about this case.

    What twaddle. The only reason Sinn Fein are having a blue fit about it is becuase there’s an election. There’s no election here in the Republic.

    The girls are being used and lots of people do not like it.

    This is the biggest lie of them all. Being led into the Ard Fheis by Gerry? I defy you to show me any instance where anyone has attempted to gain a fraction of the political capital/damage limitation of Sinn Fein.

    And if ‘other people’ – who are perfectly entitled to lend their support to the McCartney’s – unlike Sinn Fein who appear to have had an entire football team of see-no evil ‘activists’, ‘candidates’ etc in the bar that night – are the target of the ‘upset folk’ then what are they at intimidating the McCartney’s and sending Bridgeen Hagan solied pictures of her kids?

    Rotten to the core.

  • sean west

    Cool down ringo.Take it easy and let me explain.
    There was an in Election in the 26 counties in Meath.You forgot that quick.
    Ken Barret Patrick Finucane’s killer said himself
    “if it was’nt for the peelers Finucane would be alive today”.Fact.
    And the Mccartney girls are being used.When W asks you to come to the Whitehouse look to Dublin and London.The hypocrisy is unbelievable.Bush has killed thousands in Iraq and he has all this concern for an Irishman in belfast.
    I like the Mccartney girls and i hope they get justice but i just hope they do not become the new peace people.Unlike some of you youngsters here i remember 1976 and those awful marches.
    People singing “when Irish eyes are smiling” it was an embarrasment.

  • Alan McDonald

    SW,

    Ted Kennedy attacked “old Gerry” in what way? I know that Morrison attacked Kennedy with the same argument you use, but I can’t recall any personal attack the other way.

  • sean west

    Cancelled his planned meeting, Alan.
    Quite a snub from a guy who left a girl to die in a car and tried to cover his tracks.

  • Alan McDonald

    So, to complete today’s litany of whataboutery, to:

    Robert McCartney / Pat Finucane

    we can add:

    Mary Jo Kopechne / Jean McConville

    and, to quote Sonny and Cher, the beat (unfortunately) goes on.

  • Ringo

    SW –

    Its like the infinite number of monkeys theory – if a contributor like yourself spends a few days churning out ludicrous posts on a site like this, eventually a shred of truth will emerge. Lo and behold….

    I like the Mccartney girls and i hope they get justice but i just hope they do not become the new peace people.Unlike some of you youngsters here i remember 1976 and those awful marches.
    People singing “when Irish eyes are smiling” it was an embarrasment.

    The McCartneys can have the murderers of their brother brought to justice just as long as they don’t embarrass you and you ilk.

    But that’s not possible unless you’re the type of republican who’s not embarrassed by proud IRA men getting pissed and gutting a guy who happened to be in the same pub as them, is it?

  • Davros

    Davros, if you cann’t apply the same logic in reverse then you really do have a hierarchy of victims.

    DerryTerry – I agree, that there’s a mirror image Hierarchy of victims in Unionism and the establishment is just as wrong.

    There are two issues here.

    1) the obvious duality seen – our victims vs your victims

    2) the relative importance given to ordinary person vs thsoe deemed “important”. it seems that ordinary people especially if working class just don’t count.

  • kitty

    “It’s certainly an indicator of support for the men who took part in Easter rising 1916 – “

    Sinn Fein run Easter Commemorations saw record crowds turn out this past Easter, In Belfast, Carrickmore, Ardboe, Tralee, Cork ,Dublin and all over the country. An indication of the mood of Republicans.
    Of course those who know anything about Irish Politics, know that Sinn Fein, Fianna Fail, and Yes even Fine Gael have their OWN commemorations. IF all other commemorations had witnessed record crowds this year it would indicate support for the men of 1916, but that is not the case.
    The turn-out at Easter for Sinn Fein commemorations just like the Meath election is certainly an indicator that the Repulican movement is not in demise.

  • kitty

    “It seems like some people have been so hardened by the years of violence that they can’t see what a sick murder that was; they prefer to wallow in the mire of party-politicking.”

    Yes and shame on the SDLP for doing so.

  • Jo

    I think the sneering at the sisters on another thread (posts now removed at my request) shows the mentality of those who have a problem with ordinary folk seeking justice from the Provos.
    I think the very word “justice” has a very different meaning for them than it does for the rest of us. A people divided by the same language.

  • Jo

    I think the sneering at the sisters on another thread (posts now removed at my request) shows the mentality of those who have a problem with ordinary folk seeking justice from the Provos.
    I think the very word “justice” has a very different meaning for them than it does for the rest of us. A people divided by the same language.

  • b

    The McCartney sisters etc are a bunch of hypocrittes! they admit to being republicans and former sinn fein supporters. That being the case then they knew full well the kind of ‘criminal’ activities that republicans got up to for years. It didnt seem to bother them all along who was hurt or killed etc by the ira but when all of a sudden it lands on their doorstep they change their tune. Suddenly they see sinn fein as criminals and the ira as killers. What utter hypocrisy! If sinn fein and the ira were good enough for them before then they bloody well can put up with them now.

    You lie down with dogs then prepare to get bitten by either the fleas or the dogs themselves. All of a sudden the psni/ruc ar good enough to talk to and the sacrifices made by thousands of republicans over the years, be it death or imprisonment, are cast aside as meaningless in the crusade for revenge or justice.

  • Stewart

    I feel sorry for the REAL people of Northern Ireland, the people who just want to get on with their lives and live it in a normal peaceful environment.

    Both sides from the conflict in the past have made this lovely place a mess.

    I’m not Irish but I wish I was. Why? Because I have never met such a strong willed people. They have lived through such hell and have a dogged determination to see THEIR place become the place it should be, a lovely, caring, peaceful, happy place to live. A place where children can be brought up without fear free from the dark powers that still exist there today.

    The brutal murder of Robert Mc Cartney shows that the REAL people still do not have the freedom of speech the rest of the UK take for granted. Had they, his murderer would now be in police custody.
    Sadly the hoods (and that’ll be on both sides of the divide) are still running the show.

    To the REAL people of Northern Ireland, you have my deepest sympathy, but the highest respect and admiration I can offer.