Close to UUP: who's indecent?

Seamus Close isn’t happy about the UUP’s attack line in Lagan Valley:

From Seamus Close:

Basil McCrea further illustrates the hypocrisy of his party by referring to “decent people”. The suggestion is clear – that if they do not vote for him they are somehow “indecent”. This is a gross insult to the people of Lagan Valley.

Perhaps he would outline to people what is “indecent” about voting for the only party with a plan to deliver accountable, local democracy; with a plan to end conflict and segregation; and with a plan to make Northern Ireland work? I’ve news for Mr McCrea – that
party isn’t the one he represents.

People will be gravely offended by Mr McCrea’s suggestion, and I am sure they will pass judgement on it come polling day.

  • Gonzo

    (No title on that entry Mick)

  • queens_unionist

    Close to UUP: who’s indecent?

    clearly the overwhelming majority of the electorate in northern ireland
    unionist and nationalsit alike.

  • Mehmet

    Here,s an INDECENT proposal vote for anyone other than U.U.P!!!!
    This is much much worse than “Fish and Chips” of 2004

  • jimmyquickswipe

    I may not then be ‘decent’ by UUP definition, but at least I didn’t put provos in charge of our health and education departments, while still armed.

    A bit like the IRA – whats the definition of ‘criminality’, similar to the same definition of ‘decency’ from what I can gather.

  • Ttraditional Unionist

    Actually the DUP passed up both those portfolios as they picked ahead of Sinn Fein. So it was they who put them in charge of Health and Education

  • jimmyquickswipe

    …while still armed.

  • Karl Rove

    ‘Traditional [sic] Unionist’ – so the party with the 3rd chance to pick up those portfolios (the Paiseylites) was more to blame for letting them go than the party that had 1st chance (ie us, the UUP)? Please post here most often, there’s still so much about Norn Iron that leaves me baffled, and you seem like just the cove to explain her mysteries.

    Oh, and . . .

    Don’t be DUped!

    One Grubby polaroid

    etc

  • queens_unionist

    one grubby polaroid, yet another stupid catchphrase drummed up by the UUP

  • Traditional Unionist

    They were no less to blame and therefore can’t snipe about it.

  • Karl Rove

    They were numerically less to blame. You know, 1, 2 3. But if you think people are to be ‘blamed’ for having taken part in an arrangement predicated on mandatory power-sharing, doesn’t that, um, kinda cut accross all the Trimble-lovin’ we’ve come to know and respect you for? You know, what with Ginger Dave being the genius behind the Agreement, so he kept telling us, and its greatest cheerleader, and, incidentally, its principal political beneficiary (what with the old PM’s corner office up at Stormont, and the chauffeur driven limo and etc) – weren’t we, the UUP (well, our leadership at any rate), officially in favour of mandatory power-sharing? If so, we’re the last people who can ‘blame’ anyone for Sinn Fein taking portfolios we insisted they were entitled, thier absolute absence of a mandate notwithstanding.

  • fair_deal

    I plan to commit two acts of indecency on 5th May, once for Westminster and once for Council. Should I hand myself over to the PSNI now?

  • yerman

    Fair play to Seamus – it was well put, and good to see that contrary to what Rebecca was posting on here earlier today, the public are well and truly getting the impression (rightly so) that the UUP think that we’re all indecent people.

    I’m also going to commit an act of indecency on May 5th, and the latest UUP insult has just meant that I wont even be redeeming myself by transferring to the ‘decent’ candidate afterwards!

  • Rebecca Black

    Yerman

    yes, and it was really likely that you were planning to transfer to the UUP anyway. It didn’t take a stage managed indignant reaction to something the UUP said to do that.

  • queens_unionist

    Well its a big misconception to think that DUP voters will transferto UUP. they will either just leave there vote 1, or transfer to an independant whom they can sympathise with or to someone who will keep the UUP candidate out, i speak of such elections like the one in South Belfast where many unionists would rather see Alasdair McDonell in that the hateful McGimpsey

  • yerman

    Rebecca,
    Thank you for making such assumptions about me, when you neither know me, or know anything about me.

    I happen to live West of the Bann, in a DEA where there is currently one unionst councillor, but the distict possibility of winning back a seat from nationalism.

    On that basis I was prepared to transfer my vote, after the DUP candidate to the UUP candidate (who is suitably vague as to where he stands on David Trimble’s leadership etc to make fence-sitting look something of an art-form).

    However, when said Gentleman calls at my door, he will be asked if he thinks i’m a decent fella or not. When he (presumably, but who knows!) answers yes, then there will be a quick reply of “your party leader doesn’t, so unfortunately on that basis you will not be recieving a preference from either myself or my family”. I will leave it up to that gentleman to then refer those comments to his leader and hopefully in a forceful manner explain why his party’s inferrence that I am somehow indecent and my grubby hands are not worthy of placing a preference in the hallowed UUP box has denied him a seat at the bastion of power which is my local District Council.

  • Rebecca Black

    ok, so basically you are saying that because you don’t like one word in UUP election literature you are willing to see a nationalist elected instead of a unionist….i think that says it all.

  • yerman

    Rebecca,
    The Ulster Unionist Party are telling me that because I vote for the DUP that I am less ‘decent’ than they are: I’m indecent.

    Frankly the UUP dont particularly want my vote it seems. They’re getting what they want.

  • Rebecca Black

    Again, I think you are personalising this.

    You have made ur priorities clear. Bring on a united ireland.

  • queens_unionist

    RB wrote : “Bring on a united ireland”

    well rebecca you do vote UUP so your wish could be granted if your pererential party takes power [which wont happen!]

    stop scrounging for transfers… please your making the UUP look desperate

  • Rebecca Black

    I’m not scrounging for transfers, I am merely expressing my opinions ie. that i’m disappointed the the attitude taken by DUP activists and voters to smash the UUP rather than smash Sinn Fein. At this rate we’ll be alot closer to a united Ireland.

  • Alan2

    Have to say I always put the UUP 3 and 4 on pr forms. Not any more. I am thoroughly offended by the advert in the News Letter today.
    Decent people…….
    vote Ulster Unionist

  • yerman

    Rebecca
    “i think you are personalising this”

    Actually I think the UUP personalised this when they decided to tell us voters that decent people vote for them – and by inference, people like me aren’t what they consider to be decent.

    I’m sorry, but as someone who is a unionist first, and a party supporter second I take that as an insult. I come from an area with a minority unionist community and contrary to your baseless assumptions, have always transferred to unionist candidates (even in the past when I actually did vote for the UUP!).

    Attacks in politics usually are either directed at parties or on the politicians themselves. Never before has a party managed to insult the majority of the people they are supposedly trying to attract by inferring that their previous/current support for the DUP makes them indecent.

  • Visioner

    “or transfer to an independant whom they can sympathise with or to someone who will keep the UUP candidate out,”

    Independents like Kerian Deeney? … I thought the DUP where opposed to such a suggestion and put it that Unionism would be betrayed by such an idea.?

    “i speak of such elections like the one in South Belfast where many unionists would rather see Alasdair McDonell in that the hateful McGimpsey”

    Well … are these people Unionists at all, then? Maybe they need to rethink their position as ‘Unionists’.

    Bunch of hypocrites! This DUP sort put party politics before principles and values.

    Unionists – take my advice READ into the DUP propaganda.

    One example —

    If the DUP went ahead with their ‘deal’ last December Policing and Justice powers would be on their way to the Assembly under a Sinn Fein/IRA Minister.

    Question is: What has the DUP done in these last 15 mths? NOT what the UUP did.

    Anyone who ought to take the DUP’s election guff for granted at a glance should think again.

  • yerman

    Visoner – or should I call you blinkered

    “Question is: What has the DUP done in these last 15 mths? NOT what the UUP did.”

    yup! And that’s exactly why people are voting DUP.

    I actually disagree with Queens_unionist on what he said about DUP transfers to the UUP. I’ve seen the results of where transfers actually go, and contrary to the rhetoric, DUP votes have a much higher rate of transfer to the UUP than vice versa.

    The UUP often talk about splitting unionism etc, but the reality is that their rate of transfer to the DUP is low.

    I do not take the decision not to transfer to another unionist, or even to contemplate that decision, lightly. However, when a party directly insults me and people like me then there has to be a method of protest. And I wouldnt vote for Kieran Deeney either – lets remember, the only unionist party to suggest that was the UUP! Their ‘pact’ proposals were that unionists in West Tyrone should support the man who we can now see queueing to get into the SDLP (and they didnt even bother checking with their local Assembly Member before Trimble barged on in and suggested voting Deeney).

    And visioner – I’ve read the comprehensive agreement – it bears absolutely no comparison to the drivel plastered in the newspapers today by the UUP. It seems that desperate times for Trimble are starting to call for desperate measures – no matter how dirty they have to be.

  • Alan2

    “If the DUP went ahead with their ‘deal’ last December Policing and Justice powers would be on their way to the Assembly under a Sinn Fein/IRA Minister.”

    Are you saying that if there was a NI Assembly that the UUP would prefer NOT to have powers devolved to the local Assembly? Lets not forget that the “deal” also made the Assembly, the North-South bodies and indeed individual ministers accountable to the Assembly unlike before……

  • Will

    If the ‘deal’ had went ahead last December, then as well as complete decommissioning (photographed and witnessed), an end to terrorism and criminality and the effective end of the IRA then we would have had an agreement which meant policing and justice couldnt have went ahead unless it was passed by a cross-community vote in the Assembly.

    Therefore there could be no devolution until such times as unionists wanted it.

    The UUP on the other hand cobbled together a secret deal which meant that Gerry Kelly would have been in the Ministerial car by this August, come what may.

  • Gonzo

    an end to terrorism and criminality and the effective end of the IRA

    This is the main thing that the deal did NOT include, yet the DUP would have accepted it had a picture been taken.

    Oh dear.

  • Tiny

    Its a fact that if the Dec deal had gone ahead we may well have had a S/F Policing & Justice Minister, it would have been up to Blair to decide when, afterall the DUP in their wisdom handed the timing of such a move over to HM Gov. The UUP on the other hand agreed to examine the issue with the intention of introducing devolution on policing & Justice within the life of the assembly

  • Alex s

    Was it not the DUP’s David Simpson who despite being over 2000 votes behind called for a recount, giving time for a mob to gather, a mob that indulged in the kind of violence seem in Zimbawee.
    Was it not the DUP in Lagan Valley who organised a fund raising gospel concert at which the Pope’s Parkinsons was mimicked.
    Very decent

  • fair_deal

    Alex s

    “the kind of violence seem in Zimbawee”

    You obviously don’t have a clue what has been going on in Zimbabwe.

  • craigyhillman

    Wasnae Belfast Sammy a wee bit indecent in some photaes I saw him with a blonde a couple o years back?

  • Butterknife

    I have just read about this topic in The Newsletter. It reminded me of how we view our political parties: on one hand we have the DUP who can commit stunt after stunt, and as they they were always 2nd best to the UUP they have always been forgiven. The UUP has not. I think in light of the news that one of the characters in The Hitchhiker’s guide to the Galaxy is based on the leader of the DUP we have to ask ourselves do decent people vote for aliens?

  • yerman

    Gonzo
    The DUP made it plain what their terms for acceptance were – they wouldnt sign anything unless those were met.

    Alex S
    How decent is it, in the words of David Ford, for Trimble to attempt to “bribe” him out of the election in South Antrim with a peerage? Wasn’t the phrase “grubby deal” used by Ford this morning on the radio???

    Bet we wont get Michael Shilliday blogging that story!!!!

  • fair_deal

    I hope they didn’t pay as much for this slogan as they did for Simply British.

    Maybe they had an internal competition, a free peerage to whoever could come up with an even worse slogan than the last one?

  • IJP

    Fair_Deal

    LOL!

    Well there was one going spare after all…!

  • yerman

    IJP
    “Well there was one going spare after all…!”

    What on EARTH could you be suggesting?

    It wouldnt be very decent just to hawk around peerages to the highest bidder – either politically or financially.

    Fair play to David Ford though. If, as they say, everyone has their price, it seems that his was higher than the UUP could muster up with their grubby little deal.

  • Alex S

    Yerman, the reality is that by accepting a peerage if one was indeed offered Ford could have increased his party’s influence beyond what it is now, he was shortsighted in turning it down. As for the morality of Trimble’s apparent offer, its called political patronage and has been going on for years.

  • john

    Is the Michael Copeland MLA ‘decent’

  • john

    Is Michael Copeland MLA ‘decent’

  • Traditional Unionist

    yes

  • john

    For now, maybe

  • yerman

    Alex S
    In interesting attempt to explain away the attempted “grubby deal” with the Alliance Party.

    He was trying to buy-off his political opponents to save his own skin. It was a crass attempt at self-preservation which, had it been accepted, would have meant that the Alliance Party were even more shallow than David Trimble had they accepted.

    No doubt the elevation of former Irish Senator for the ‘republican party’ to the House of Lords had nothing to do with cash either according to you.

    For a party which seems to revel in its own ‘decency’, grubby deals like that offered to David Ford show the desperation which is now driving Trimble and his suicide squad followers.

  • Basil McCrea

    Actually, what I said was “The right choice for decent people”… which means decent people have a choice. The important word here is choice.

    My statement offers the opinion that I am the right choice. You wouldn’t expect anything else from someone seeking election would you. 🙂

  • Gonzo

    yerman said: Gonzo
    The DUP made it plain what their terms for acceptance were – they wouldnt sign anything unless those were met.

    Yes indeed they did. And they also made it pretty clear which parts they didn’t accept at the time and which parts were not problemmatic – which is very different from what they are demanding now.

    Since Christmas, there has been a dramatic shift in DUP policy about what they require for devolution to come about. The bar is now much higher, although with an election on the horizon, you wouldn’t expect anything else.

    However, my guess is that they are still prepared to make a deal with SF when they deem the time right. When the time is right will largely depend on election results.

    After the last Assembly elections I predicted here that there wouldn’t be a deal until after the next general election. Now I’m not even sure that if the DUP and SF can cut one, it will be any use to anyone. After the election, the DUP will certainly have to prove its devolutionist credentials, although SF will have plenty to prove too.

    I fear that, deal or no deal and despite the lack of potential for serious violence right now, there is still great potential for further ‘parallel politics’ to take place, with one side looking after its own, rather than the people as a whole. More ‘Balkanisation’, you know? Sort of like two parallel societies co-existing, but never actually meeting, in some places anyway. A very tense kind of ‘peace’. Like there’s still unfinished business.

    I get the feeling that if people here want to co-exist in any meaningful way, it must be in spite of the political leadership they get, not because of it.