McGuinness: police holding back on prosecutions

Interesting. Martin McGuinness has again attacked the Police, accusing them of holding back on prosecutions for political motives. Unfortunately we don’t have his statement in full, and the newsroom on the party’s site seems not to have been updated for several days. So its hard to judge what evidence he has to back it up. Last time out, this same claim was summarily dismissed by Hugh Orde.

  • Davros

    “He says the PSNI are in a postition to charge people for the killing, but are choosing not to do so.”

    I’d be interested to know how Martin McGuinness knows this – spies ? After all he and his party not only boycott the police, they try and prevent children getting road safelt lessons from the police.

  • spirit-level

    MMg should produce his evidence, if he has any.
    Otherwise its just a nasty comment meant to undermine the PSNI, and accuse them of politicking. It depresses me, because he should be going after the witnesses. How can he ever expect to be a minister again with such intemperate language?

  • Oilbhéar Chromaill

    Mr Orde didn’t provide any evidence to back up his defence of the failure of the PSNI to arrest and charge those whose names are widely known in association with the murder of Robert McCartney.

    And if further evidence of the partisanship of the police were needed, one only has to look at how the PSNI waited until after Jim Gray was ousted from the UDA before arresting him.

    One wonders where the PSNI is getting its directions from….

  • Davros

    those whose names are widely known in association with the murder of Robert McCartney.

    You seem to be arguing for Internment here OC.
    Cake and eat it time.

  • spirit-level

    OC I hear you, but as far as the public know all those witnesses have denied seeing anything.
    I am certain the PSNI want to get a conviction here, as it’s bridge building with the Nationalist Community apart from anything else.
    Getting a successful prosecution would reflect well on the Police and dismiss claims of Partisanship.
    Annoyingly I can’t find the article I read yesterday that suggested that two of the men involved were prepared to confess, as long as it would be accepted they were acting on orders from the senior republican in the Bar.
    So who’s protecting who? PSNI I don’t think so.

  • Chris Gaskin

    It’s not internment Davros

    It’s called arrest and charge and then bring forward prosecutions.

    I know this whole “police work” is new to the PSNI/RUC but perhaps they should try doing some.

  • Davros

    Chris – I thought your party disapproved of Jailing people on the word of a police officer ? Or is it OK when it suits as it would in this case ? 😉
    And I’d still be interested in hearing how martin Knows what the Police have and don’t have in relation to this investigation. Have SF been holding secret meetings with representatives of the PSNI ?

  • beano @ Everything Ulster

    “And if further evidence of the partisanship of the police were needed, one only has to look at how the PSNI waited until after Jim Gray was ousted from the UDA before arresting him.”

    Hardly the best evidence of partisanship towards loyalists, considering the number of leading republicans being targeted by the PSNI/ARA recently.

    I agree with Davros, if I was in the PSNI I’d be trying to get a conviction to try and prove that the PSNI, and not the IRA, are the only legitimate force for law and order in Northern Ireland, in both communities.

  • spirit-level

    That Republicans are consumed with Hatred and Resentment towards the PSNI/RUC, as are Unionists towards SF/IRA , for historical reasons is understandable.
    The Job of the Leaders is to breaks these walls down and build up trust, not reinforce old sterio-types and play on people’s fears.
    But hey we got an election; what else do you expect but polarisation.
    In that respect Martin McGuiness and Ian Paisley are as bad as each other. Shame on them.
    A completely new approach is required.

  • Davros

    Annoyingly I can’t find the article I read yesterday that suggested that two of the men involved were prepared to confess, as long as it would be accepted they were acting on orders from the senior republican in the Bar.

    This was carried in the Sunday Independent.

    McCartneys say wall of silence set to collapse like a house of cards

    “THE SISTERS of Robert McCartney have claimed that two IRA men are prepared to admit killing their brother – but only if they can claim they were acting on orders.”

    and

    ” The murder was not political, said his sisters, but alarge part of the subsequent hush-hush exercise involved Sinn Fein.

    The explanation was a revelation to many MEPs from across Europe, who thought the IRA had already gone away and that Sinn Fein was a normal political party.

    Gemma, Paula and Catherine McCartney explained to MEPs in Brussels that they had just heard through what they described as “their local grapevine” that the two men who actually butchered their brother were prepared toadmit their roles.

    Since they perceived themselves as IRA volunteers, they did not want to be portrayed as psychopaths. Instead, they insist they were acting on orders from the senior IRA commander who was involved in the row inside the Belfast bar on January 30 last.

    “What is happening now is that two of the murderers are saying they are not holding their hands up to this as psychopaths, but insist they were acting as IRA volunteers carrying out a command. He insists on denying this,” Catherine McCartney explained.

    “We feel, for some reason, he is being protected, but we do not know why this is. If Sinn Fein and the IRA can force him to confess, it will be like a deck of cards falling,” she said.

    Since this “acting on orders” defence would implicate this man in the murder, these admissions have not been made to police. The provocation for the attack, explain the sisters, was a “rude gesture” about a woman in this man’s company.

    The sisters also scorned all suggestions that the same figure has really been expelled by the IRA from its ranks, despite its statement that three men had been drummed out. The McCartneys point out that this man is still frequently in the company of other senior republicans and if he had really been disgraced, then this kind of fraternisation would not be visible on the streets of the Short Strand. “

  • spirit-level

    Cheers Davros
    I wonder how much of a big-shot this Republican leader is. If he’s known to hang-out with the SF Party Leadership, no wonder he’s being protected.
    He must be outed. I predict he will be after the IRA respond to GA’s statement. In keeping with
    the choreography. No wonder the Irish are the best dancers in the world 😉

  • Davros

    It had occurred to me spirit-level that SF may be kebabed over this in the same way that it has been claimed that they are being held by the Short and Curlies by the murderers of Garda McCabe. Look after us or we name names ?

  • spirit-level

    Indeedy doodeedy Davros
    We pehaps need an amnesty similiar to the one in South Africa, ( John Boorman’s making a movie about this )
    where everyone admits everything. All the British/Unionist collusion comes out. All the IRA cover-ups comes out.
    Me, I swing both ways darling, I’ll get into bed with anyone who’s really prepared to show proper leadership,and vision. Those who don’t I have nothing but contempt for.
    And as I remember the lines
    “The higher you build your barriers the taller I become” I understand the difference between mice and men.

  • Weapons of Crass Instruction

    “MMg should produce his evidence, if he has any”

    Perhaps like PSNI CC Hugh Orde did when he alleged [and the media and political opportunists etc subsequently accepted] that the IRA were responsible for the Northern Bank robbery.

    Sauce for the goose Spirit Level?

    “Gemma, Paula and Catherine McCartney explained to MEPs in Brussels that they had just heard through what they described as “their local grapevine”…..

    This mode of communication seems perfectly acceptable to you in the context of the McCartney Srs Dav.. Would you also accept that MMcg could have plausibly heard the information that you ask for the source of from the grapevine and withdraw your suggestions [allegations?] of spying?.

  • PatMcLarnon

    Maybe Mc Guinness is giving the PSNI too much credit as a worthwhile policing service. One only has to look at the Northern to gauge their professionalism. The only money recovered so far was from one of their own buildings.
    Maybe if Mc Cartney had been killed inside Mountpottinger PSNI station the PSNI might have been able to arrest someone.

  • spirit-level

    sick

  • Davros

    This mode of communication seems perfectly acceptable to you in the context of the McCartney Srs Dav.. Would you also accept that MMcg could have plausibly heard the information that you ask for the source of from the grapevine and withdraw your suggestions [allegations?] of spying?.

    LOL WOCI !

    Which Grapevine would have MMcG gossiping with Coppers ? That has to be the biggest load of cobblers ever posted on this site – The McCartney sisters are republicans living in a close-knit republican community.

    So, How does MM know that the coppers are in a position to charge people? Is he psychic ? Or could he have invented this?

  • Robert Keogh

    The McCartney sisters are republicans living in a close-knit republican community.

    I can see how that distinguishes them from McGuinness alright.

  • beano @ Everything Ulster

    The point is that the sisters were directly involved in the same community as those whom they were discussing (the murderers). MMcG is not in the same community as those he is pointing the finger at, the PSNI (unless I’ve misses something dramatic in the last few days)

  • Davros

    Precisely beano. Although there’s long been rumours and hints that Scap wasn’t the highest ranking provo playing footsie with the Brits 😉

  • Liam

    The reality is that the PSNI have known for a very long time who killed Robert McCartney. They have had an eye-witness (Brendan Devine) all along.

    “The McCartney sisters are republicans living in a close-knit republican community.”

    Actually neither of the above statements is true. The sisters are certainly not republicans and only one of them actually lives in the Short Strand.

  • Davros

    Actually neither of the above statements is true. The sisters are certainly not republicans and only one of them actually lives in the Short Strand.

    No mention was made of Short Strand Liam. The wording was carefully chosen. All I have read and heard about the sisters is that they are republicans, but if you have heard otherwise fair enough.

  • spirit-level

    The Republican Commander, should admit he gave the order for the execution. After all everyone believes that’s how the IRA operate, and has done in countless murders of its own people.
    Its one of those very sad facts of life.

  • Dec

    The Republican Commander, should admit he gave the order for the execution.

    Has it occured to you that maybe he didn’t?

  • spirit-level

    Yes Dec and I think that’s b*ollocks.
    He should take the rap..

    “Since they perceived themselves as IRA volunteers, they did not want to be portrayed as psychopaths. Instead, they insist they were acting on orders from the senior IRA commander who was involved in the row inside the Belfast bar on January 30 last”.
    It’s really straight-forward, leave out the spin dude.

  • Dec

    I’m not sure what you mean by spin. What you think is up to you. Personally, I like to hear some evidence before I throw away the key.

  • spirit-level

    Dec
    Of course, a statement would be a good start no?
    What the hell do you think are you playing at taking his side anyway?

  • Dec

    Oh so it’s about sides now, not evidence? Party on, dude.

  • Ringo

    What the hell do you think are you playing at taking his side anyway?

    Welcome to Dec’s world Spirit. He’s been trying to muddy the waters regards this murder since day one.

    Take a trawl back through the archives and take a look at the stuff he’s written on the McCartney threads if you’ve time. Its revolting, but aside from asking these sort of questions, what can you do?

  • spirit-level

    It oughtn’t to be about sides, but it seems to me (IMHO) that’s quite an accurate view on norn iron affairs. Espcially in this case. Please do correct me if I’m wrong pal.

  • spirit-level

    aye ringo what can you do? I’m thinking treatment,counselling or maybe good old fashioned ECT!

  • Dec

    Ah, welcome Ringo. Back with the personal attacks, I see. Always a pleasure. I’d be interested to see what you think is revolting. Repeated requests for evidence, perhaps. Go on give us all an example. Shouldn’t be hard for an expert such as yourself.
    Until then try dealing with the argument rather than attacking me in print.

  • spirit-level

    The bar was forensically cleaned. That’s part of the problem. Are people burying their heads in the sand here Ringo or are they just thick?

  • Ringo

    Don’t forget the muck rakers. There’s a few of them around too…

  • Dec

    Yeah, far better to let the know-f***-all’s dominate the threads.