IRA is not all that needs to move forward

Daily Ireland argues that there is still unfinished business around policing to be dealt with, before the IRA is likely to take what it believes is Sinn Fein’s sound advice!

  • beano @ Everything Ulster

    “members of the SDLP who have offered nothing more than token opposition on the matter”

    I’m really sick of hearing the propaganda writers of the republican movement coming off with this rubbish. There’s no sense attacking the SDLP over this. The SDLP were in there fighting their corner and arguing their case. Where were SF when this was going on?

    SF left the SDLP in there on their own and have no right to complain that the SDLP couldn’t stop the bullets from coming in.

  • Dessertspoon

    Of course there is unfinished business and not just over policing. That’s a bit of a no brainer. But you know the old saying a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. The optimist in me hopes Gerry took the first step and now the IRA must take the next etc etc etc. Before any real progress can be made now all the excuses have to go. The less optimistic side of me fears the intransigence of the DUP no matter how many steps everyone else takes.

  • gary

    Plastic bullets are a great example of an SDLP success in policing

  • Davros

    Plastic bullets are a great example of an SDLP success in policing

    I would agree – that there is a sensible policy in regard to PB use and the fact that they haven’t been used on the streets for several years is in part down to the SDLP playing a constructive role.

  • fair_deal

    So the RM returns to its familiar behaviour pattern. Issue vague statement that be interpreted broadly and spun as something big but never any detail. Then the wishlist starts to appear without making clear what is on offer.

    I was open to the idea that the Adams speech meant something the evidence to the contrary is starting to appear.

  • john

    There’s a fair bit of unfinished business alright. There’s the business of killing for a united Ireland. Whatever happened to that?
    British withdrawal never happened. Unionists still aren’t Irish.

    If we wait until the IRA sort out their unfinished business, we’ll have to get Dr Who to take us back to 1969, the halcyon period for the Provos and start all over again. They’ve achieved absolutely nothing.

  • gary

    I would agree – that there is a sensible policy in regard to PB use and the fact that they haven’t been used on the streets for several years is in part down to the SDLP playing a constructive role.

    They certainly Don’t play a constructive role at ground level,they don’t exist.

  • Jimmy Sands

    I’m puzzled as to the emphasis on plastic bullets. The Patten recommendations, which SF now say they support, recommended retention.

  • beano @ Everything Ulster

    An inconsistency in SF policy? Surely not. To read that you’d nearly think SF only wanted to pick and choose which bits of it they liked, much like the agreement to date.

  • Whatabout

    It’s the election (Stoopid!). Plastic bullets are this weeks subject to be highlighted in the campaign.

  • PatMcLarnon

    ‘If we wait until the IRA sort out their unfinished business, we’ll have to get Dr Who to take us back to 1969, the halcyon period for the Provos’

    The Provos didn’t exist in 1969.

  • john

    PatMcLarnon

    Of course they existed. They existed in the minds of every two bit half-criminal who wanted to earn the respect of fellow members of his community by killing their opponents.

    Of course they started calling themselves the IRA in 1970. As Gerry Adams might say, “Please go away big boys and stop harming my party because we only want to be happy bigots.” In 1970 he might have said that the IRA “didn’t happen by accident”. Nod nod wink wink.

  • Davros

    The Provos didn’t exist in 1969.

    ???

    Formed in 1969. I’ll agree that 1969 couldn’t be described as their “halcyon period”.

  • crat

    Jimmy,

    That’s an unusual interpretation of Patten on PBRs. I thought they recommended immediate and massive investment into obtaining an alternative and huge restrictions on their use? Have either taken place? The recent purchase of large numbers of more accurate forms (an alternate Patten criticised) doesn’t seem compliant with the report.

    The report seems to have expect things on PBRs as an absolute minimum that haven’t happened.

  • Davros

    huge restrictions on their use

    When was a PB last used in NI ?

  • crat

    Davros,

    I’m pointing out the report has not been implemented and didn’t recommend retention of the capability. It recommended immediate work to remove the capability and to restrict that capability in the interim.

    I’m happy they aren’t being used at present.

    That situation could change at any parade or interface at any time for some predictable or unknown reason. I thought that’s why the recommendation was made?

    Hoping they won’t be needed, restricting use and access if needed and proactively working to ensure a non-lethal alternative exists.

    The hoping bit seems to be the only bit of this section of the report taken seriously.

  • Jimmy Sands

    Crat,

    I don’t recall any reference to “massive investment” nor would I expect it from an ex-Tory chair. As for their use being restricted, are you saying that didn’t happen?

  • Davros

    The capability has been restricted to the point than none have been used in how long ? And the police ombudsman actually pointed out that there were occasions when they could have been used perfectly properly and were not….

    Remember , there’s no obligation , let alone a time frame, to implement Patten in the GFA.

  • beano @ Everything Ulster

    As far as restrictions go – don’t all cases of their usage now have to be reported and justified to the Police Ombudsman?

  • crat

    Jimmy,

    Sorry, the call was for ‘substantial investment’ and given the time since and the lack of any expenses other than reporting on existing alternatives I don’t see anything invested of substance. The new ‘more accurate’ round was criticised as inappropriate as a replacement and seems the largest investment to date. Investing in large amounts of new rounds and the retention of large numbers authorised to use them doesn’t seem to tally with the call for restriction to small specialised units operating to the same standards as those authorised in Britain.

    The report certainly isn’t aiming for retention as you first stated and the reason we have retention is it’s recommendations haven’t been acted on.

    Davros,

    True. I expected it to be implemented, didn’t you? These semantics have been used in other situations about the Agreement, people still tend to expect their expectations over the ‘creative ambiguity‘. Do you?

  • crat

    And to make it more complicated there is no accountable control over the British Army using PBRs.

  • Davros

    when was the last time the British Army used PBRs on the streets of NI ?

    I cannot take this fake concern over PBRs seriously.

  • Jimmy Sands

    The steering group reports regularly. They have introduced not only the modified PBR, but also water cannon and the use of tasers is under review. Obviously there are drawbacks to all alternatives and whilst one may legitimately prefer a different approach, to suggest as you do that the recommendations are being substantially ignored is simply not tenable.

  • Jimmy Sands

    Of course the concern is not genuine. The provisionals cannot take their places on the board without renouncing crime. Anything other suggestion is a figleaf.

  • Ireland Today

    Mr. Adams should be on trial for obstructing justice.

  • NewYorker

    There is a solid plan that is being implemented to improve the PSNI and institutions in place for accountability. It may not be perfect, but it is better than looking the wrong way at someone and getting gutted in the street.

  • aquifer

    Children facing rounded plastic bullets in riots

    Provo childcare?

    If only their older brothers would stop throwing heavy and pointed mineral and metallic stuff towards the civic guards.

    When the Police Ombudsman wonders if more should be fired on occasion, perhaps the Provos do protest too much. Or just too violently.

  • john

    aquifer

    Just back back from a Paisley sermon

    Blood still boiling,need to take your frustrations out on someone,can’t use your old comrades in the uda/uvf to take out a few taigs,those papists and fenians, its all their fault.

  • aquifer

    John

    Sorry to hear of your own late night bilous attack.

    Failure to support the polarizing Provo campaign of murder and political intimidation is not itself evidence of allegiance to loyalist terrorism nor support for vile sectarian murder.

    You were playing man not ball but as your team have been rubbish lately, and you cannot even land an accurate punch, you should be let off this once.

  • Maurice Dobb

    John you said earlier that the IRA

    “They’ve achieved absolutely nothing.”

    I disagree, Ulster Unionism has had manners put on it big time,its a very different mind set for unionists today when compared with 1969.Because they know that they can’t get away with what was commonplace before 1969, and that did’nt happen through SDLP lobbying.

  • Whatabout

    So the killing was justified? Would the RM have achieved more through peaceful protest? (bearing in mind they came in on the back of a Civil Rights movement that had blossomed across Europe and the developed world).

    We’ll never know but the blood letting cannot be justified, even if you accept there was a legitimate claim to Northern Irelnad.

  • Bob

    I feel that the IRA are a pack of dirty terrorists and should stand down and dry their eyes.

  • Fred

    Bob,

    I agree with the comment made about the IRA and i also feel that they should just give up because they just do not get it