Mixed views on the Pope's legacy

A couple of pieces on the papacy of late Pope John Paul II. Thomas Bray argues that if he polarised opinion, it’s because he stood for a principle. And Michela Wrong demurrs from more mainstream African press opinion and fulminates against the Pope’s conservative line on contraception dispite the effects of the Aids pandemic in Africa.

  • Chris Gaskin

    “Blood of innocents on his hands

    Pope John Paul II helped keep the continent of Africa disease-ridden, famished and disastrously underdeveloped, writes Michela Wrong from Nairobi”

    An absolute disgrace.

    While I disagree with the Vaticans line on contraception and sex before marriage the Popes line on aids would have stoped the epidemic.

    It is very simple, don’t use contaception but don’t have sex before marriage.

    Some Liberals have too much time on their hands

  • Alan McDonald

    As I pointed out on another thread two days ago:

    Not everyone in the USA is gushing. See An American Catholic Reflects on Papacy of John Paul II.

  • Henry94

    This article about his return to communist Poland explains both his greatness and why some people will never forgive him

  • Davros

    It’s too soon IMO to discuss these things. Peopleare in mourning. Now is not the time.

  • The Devil

    Good riddence to bad rubbish….

    The only reason that the Polish Cardinal was elected Pope was because the extreme right wingers in the Vatican could not muster the required number of votes to keep a more “liberal” candidate out of the post of chief red sock wearer.

    Realising their position was dire they conspired to switch all their votes “en bloc” behind the trailing third place candidate, a non entity from Krakow. The reasoning behind the move was that he was also a right winger and if a deal could be made then shared power is better than no power at all. Only a fool would try to describe JP2 as of normal intelligence, he wasn’t he was extremely intelligent and therefore knew exactly why the votes were switched in the final Vatican vote for Pontiff, but more importantly he knew exactly what was expected of him in return.

    If anyone is in doubt of just how far JP2 was prepared to go to please his new found friends then they only have to look at his first to offical actions as pontiff. He ordered £100,000,000 in gold bullion to be transfered from Italy to the U.S.A because it was feared that in the forth coming Italian elections that it was possible that the Italian people may have elected a communist goverment. A supply of money was set up running into hundreds of thousands perhaps millions, no one will ever know for sure to finance the CIA inspired Solidarity grouping.

    The right wingers who switched their votes to elect JP2 all ended up having their people run the Vatican civil service anyway just as if their first choice had been elected Pope in the first place….. Hmmm so much for the nonsense that JP2 was his own man.

    There are tens of millions of people dying from Aids in Africa not all of them are Catholic but if only 1 in a 1,000 is then the rule against man made contraception is still causing tens of thousands of African Catholics to die. Think about it, tens of thousands…. hell Klaus Barbie the “butcher of Lyons” wasn’t even responsible for that many, and not too many people are running around like headless chickens singing his praises.

    I am not advocating giving away the vatican treasures as I believe it has become a most beautiful and fascinating museum, more than deserving of world heritage protection. What I do advocate is that the Bishops Cardinals and Pope should live an extremely meek life without the fancy foods and dress, without the comfortable mercedes cars and in house maids… then and only then would they have a tiny taste of real hardship real poverty… maybe then they may actually do something about it instead of ignoring it but taking the applause for pretending to address the terrible situation of avoidable World poverty.

    When the Cardinal of Krakow appointed Archbishop Paul Marcinkus a known rabbid right winger who makes Stalin look like a liberal to the post of President Emeritus of Vatican City State, a man who was at the death bed of John Paul the first(a liberal) on his own, then left with the dead popes insulin bottle in his pocket, then he insulted the very memory of the man whos name he took.

    To all the muppets who went to Rome in a pilgrimage for a mere man that had so much power yet did so little shame on you.

    Go to Rome to see the spectacles, don’t go to make a spectacle of yourself.

  • gary

    Devil

    You don’t get out much , do you.

  • Young Irelander

    The Devil

    “Go to Rome to see the spectacles, don’t go to make a spectacle of yourself.”

    If we wanted to see someone make a spectacle of themself we have only to read your posts.

  • Young Irelander

    The Devil

    “Go to Rome to see the spectacles, don’t go to make a spectacle of yourself.”

    If we wanted to see someone make a spectacle of themself we have only to read your posts.

  • Young Irelander

    The Devil

    “Go to Rome to see the spectacles, don’t go to make a spectacle of yourself.”

    If we wanted to see someone make a spectacle of themself we have only to read your posts.

  • Young Irelander

    The Devil

    “Go to Rome to see the spectacles, don’t go to make a spectacle of yourself.”

    If we wanted to see someone make a spectacle of themself we have only to read your posts.

  • gary

    ooh , that hurt

    Do you ever watch the muppets

    you might recognise yourself

    But honestly,do you have some problems

  • Henry94

    the rule against man made contraception is still causing tens of thousands of African Catholics to die.

    It is taking a-la-carte Catholicism to deadly extremes if you obey the Pope on condoms but ignore him on sex outside marriage.

    Are there any Catholics here who think it’s okay to screw around but not okay to use condoms? Or are such Catholics only found in Africa?

  • SeamusG

    Henry 94,
    You are spot on. It’s not the job of the Pope to facilitate safe sex or to please the world’s liberals by coming into line with their agenda. His job is to set a standard of behaviour which falls into line with Catholic doctrine (which, if followed, would stop AIDS in its tracks by the way).
    I’ve said it before on this site but it bears repeating: blaming the Pope for the spread of AIDS in Africa shows an incredible immaturity of thought processes.

  • Rethinking Unionism

    Obviously Devil has been reading Dan Brown and David Yallop to excess. Try reading the core documents of Vatican 2 and then let us know where exacly John Paul II deviated from the teaching of the Church as compared with your feted “liberal” candidates. In what way was John Paul I a liberal?…Was he orthodox?..I presume yes. How then could he have rewritten the Catholic understanding of the theology of the body which has been there for a few thousand years and when developed by the Church has never done so in a way that is inconsistent with the end it seeks to achieve.

  • Colm

    While it is true that it is incorrect to blame the Pope for the spread of Aids in Africa, the strength and influence of the RC church in some countries is likely to have had an effect on the availability and openness of display of contraceptives which certainly would have an affect on the practise of unsafe sex.

    It is perfectly valid for the RC church to voice moral dissaproval of sexual activity outside of marraige, but the blanket opposition to all artificial contraception has in my opinion no validity in this modern overcrowded world.

  • The Devil

    Funny how the great catholic doctrine on contraception did not stop the Vatican officals from investing heavily in shares in DUREX!!!!!!

    Yes Durex the condom manufacturer, it’s ok to make a profit from condoms but wrong for ordinary catholics to use them