Bertie says no to national day of mourning?

Richard Delevan raised this point much earlier, but better late than never, we join the ‘stampede’.. Should Ireland have a national day of mourning to mark the death of John Paul II? Cuba, somewhat surprisingly, has begun three days of national mourning. Needless to say opinions differ between employers and employees although, obviously, their concerns would be a minor consideration in such a decision.. obviously.. However, for some, pre-arranged plans for Friday have already been changed.

  • Davros

    I think Bertie should think again.

  • Keith M

    Good call by Bertie. National days of mourning should be saved for nationally significant people. Apart from a sitting Taoiseach or President, I don’t see anyone who would merit it.

    There’s an interesting dilemma tonight in Longford where the local football team are playing Linfield. Should there be a minute’s silence or not?

  • Séamus

    I think that years of dormant or even derided religious fervour may suddenly be reawakened by the prospect of a day off.

  • PS

    I agree Davros. I also think there should be a minute’s silence at the match tonight in Longford.

  • smcgiff

    If we can have a day of mourning to pander to US multinationals, then I think we can afford a day of mourning for such a historical figure.

    The fact that 50%+ of Irish voters go to mass each week will, I think, change his mind, come Friday.

  • smcgiff

    Also, the mischievous part of me wonders how much of this is due to the snubs Bertie received when he wanted to bring his mistress to Church occasions.

    Revenge is a dish best served cold.

    But Bertie would do well to remember that the electorate get to serve whatever dish they like come the next General election.

  • Keith M

    smcgiff “The fact that 50%+ of Irish voters go to mass each week”. Evidence?

  • Davros

    I also think there should be a minute’s silence at the match tonight in Longford.

    It would be outrageous if there wasn’t a minute’s silence, and I would be very surprised if David J was to object.

  • Henry94

    From what I could see nearly everybody went to work on Good Friday and that is a far more important day for Catholics than the funeral of a Pope.

    If, in a multi-cultural society, national days of morning are not acceptable in such circumstances then I think we should be looking for a way to let each person idetify significent days that they would be able to take off from work. Maybe two each per year with an extra one available to mark the death of an important figure in the tradition you have choosen.

    Surely multi-culturalism can mean more than us all conforming to the US business culture.

    Of course those who were not religious could nominate days of importance to them too.

  • maca

    Thanks ye’ve just reminded me about the game tonite … Go On De TOWNE!!

    Yeah, I think there should definitly be a day of mourning!

  • smcgiff

    ‘Of course those who were not religious could nominate days of importance to them too.’

    Like Liverpool getting to the final of the Champions League? Oh, hang on… Can I pick again.

    Just Juve and Chelsea to get past first. Come on the REDS!!!

  • Paddy Matthews

    Dunno whether there was a minute’s silence or not in Mullolagher, but the current score (from Aertel) is:

    Longford Town 1-0 Linfield 7.15
    Paisley 6

    Sometimes you have to laugh.

  • smcgiff

    Are the IL teams taking this seriously at all? I mean, Longford town!!

  • Keith M

    Henry94 “I think we should be looking for a way to let each person idetify significent days that they would be able to take off from work.” Spiffing idea! I nominate the anniversary of the first Eurovision Song Contest and the anniversary of the Thatcher the Great coming to power. Both events have changed my life more than a football team of popes.

  • smcgiff

    ‘Spiffing idea!’

    You know, Keithm, I take back all my bad feelings towards you.

    Growing up in Ireland must have been tragic for you. You’ve suffered enough.

  • maca

    “Are the IL teams taking this seriously at all? I mean, Longford town!!”

    Hey back off buddy, that’s my team!!
    League cup & 2 FAI cups in the last 2 years!! ANother cup this year will do nicely.

  • Keith M

    smcgiff “Growing up in Ireland must have been tragic for you.” You have no idea how I suffered in single channel land in the 60’s and 70’s. If it wasn’t for Enid Blyton and my secret teenage Pims addiction, I don’t think I’d have made it.

    Now perhaps you could answer the question I posed at 7.06?

  • GavBelfast

    Do the people advocating this not just want a day off?

    I’m sure anyone who wants to watch the funeral on TV should be able to do so, any reasonable employer should enable it, and there are enough waking hours in the day for people to grieve privately.

    I don’t think that, when the Queen dies, the country will grind to a halt the way it did when her father or, for example, Winston Churchill died, nor indeed after Princess Diana’s death which was, with hindsight, a shocking over-reaction in mass hysteria (and, yes, I did like her).

  • Paddy Matthews

    Maca,

    Score is now 2-0 – a goal from Myler just before half time.

    There was no minute’s silence.

  • smcgiff

    ‘Now perhaps you could answer the question I posed at 7.06?’

    My sudden empathy doesn’t extend beyond my current level of laziness. I thought I was being conservative with 50%. In my defence, I heard this figure on the radio. Take comfort in the fact I came very close to googling it!

    But, if Bertie thought there was a marginal swing of .5%, never mind 50%, at the next Generla Eleciton in having a day of mourning he’d take it. My evidence you ask? He’s a &#@%ing politician!!

  • Davros

    That’s shameful Paddy Matthews. Plain bad manners.

  • maca

    Thanks Paddy, BBC are showing the score on the website…

    Dav
    “That’s shameful Paddy Matthews. Plain bad manners.”
    Agreed but maybe they thought with Linfield being a predominantly Protestant club that it might be a bit awkward?? I dunno.

  • Paddy Matthews

    Davros,

    I gather from speaking just now to someone at the match that the feeling was that a minute’s silence might not go uninterrupted. I understand that some Longford supporters were not thrilled about it but most people would prefer a peaceful atmosphere.

    I suppose if someone has nothing good to say, then it’s better for them to say nothing at all.

    Paddy.

  • Keith M

    “There was no minute’s silence.” I’m pleasantly surprised, especially when you consider the UEFA are observing a minute’s silence at Champion’s League games this week. Further evidence of how far this once backward little country has come in recent years.

    SmcGiff : If I remember correctly the number of Catholics who attend Church weekly is just over 60%. Take out non-Catholics, children and emigrants (who aren’t voters) and I doubt you’d get anywhere 50% of the electorate.

  • smcgiff

    There was not a little noise during the minute’s silence at the Munster/Biarritz match at the weekend. Not sure who was making the noise, but surprising considering the two countries the fans hailed.

  • Keith M

    Paddy M “I suppose if someone has nothing good to say, then it’s better for them to say nothing at all.” You don’t know how tempted I am to play the man and not the ball!

  • smcgiff

    ‘and I doubt you’d get anywhere 50% of the electorate.’

    More than enough to dictate which government was in office post next GE.

  • smcgiff

    2-0, Easy!! I always said the Town were a great team!

    BTW, Maca, aren’t these your team! *whistles*

  • Keith M

    smcgiff : If this issue changes the voting intentions of one person I will be surprised. Believe me there is no leader anywhere in Europe who has his finger on the pulse of public opinion as much as Bertie. On the odd occasion he does get it wrong (like releasing McCabe’s killers) watch how quickly he changes tack. Like him or not (and I’m not a huge fan), he is totally tuned into public opinion.

  • maca

    “BTW, Maca, aren’t these your team!”

    Pretending you missed my earlier post? 😉

  • smcgiff

    ‘he is totally tuned into public opinion.’

    I agree, he will begrudgingly (for the reason I posted above) hold a day of mourning.

    Any backbencher worth his salt will also be lobbying him.

  • smcgiff

    ‘Pretending you missed my earlier post?’

    Me??? As if?

  • Henry94

    2-0. They’re silent now.

  • Paddy Matthews

    Score is now 2-1 with five minutes left to go.

  • maca

    All over. Lovelty stuff. First the Setanta Cup, next WORLD DOMINATION! Mu wha wha wha!

  • GavBelfast

    Well done to Longford.

    It’s a dreadful shame and so typical of the problems of intolerance and lack of respect in this part of the world that many people in work were talking about the lack of a minute’s silence for the Rangers match yesterday (though it’s reported there were some tasteless songs and chants anyway) and now it is a topic over this game.

    Sadly, there would have been a risk that some neanderthals would have ruined it for everybody, thus embarrassing Linfield, upsetting eveyone and maybe risking trouble. I know it was agreed there would be no national flags at any of these grounds for this competition, again to defuse risks. I assume the players did wear black armbands?

    Be it for the Pope, the Queen Mother, Remembrance Day, Munich, Heysel, Hillsborough, September 11th, or whatever, those with suspect DNA have desmirched them (and no doubt felt big and clever with it), so as has been said, sometimes discretion is best.

  • Paddy Matthews

    I assume the players did wear black armbands?

    No. For the same reasons as there wasn’t a minute’s silence.

  • GavBelfast

    I’m really surprised at that, Paddy, but then maybe it that was just for consistency and you made the point earlier about discretion, saying nothing and a peaceful atmosphere.

  • Paddy Matthews

    Gav,

    I’m not in the least bit surprised by it. There was an extremely heavy security presence at last night’s game. The main focus was on avoiding trouble.

  • maca

    “There was an extremely heavy security presence at last night’s game”

    Heavy security? At a Town game? It’s ususally 3-4 pot bellied hoors in yellow bibs 😉

  • Keith M

    GavBelfast : It’s a dreadful shame and so typical of the problems of intolerance and lack of respect in this part of the world that many people in work were talking about the lack of a minute’s silence for the Rangers match”.

    Please remind me of the association between the Pope and Motherwell or Ranger football club, or Scottish football in general.

    Minutes of silence at sporting or other events should for me be saved for those associated with the clubs involved, football in general, heads of state of the teams participating or major world tragedies (the tsumani, WTC etc). The more more you use the minute’s silence, the less importance is associated with it, and you risk having people risrespect it.

  • Paddy Matthews

    Heavy security? At a Town game? It’s ususally 3-4 pot bellied hoors in yellow bibs 😉

    Heavy Garda presence. Car park strictly segregated. Mounted Gardaí. Garda escort for the supporters’ buses – which didn’t go back through the town but rather out the road for Tarmonbarry instead – they may have headed by the back roads for Newtown and from there onto the by-pass.

  • Davros

    according to this in the Irish Independent

    “Both teams wore black armbands as a mark of respect to the late Pope John Paul II but there was no minute’s silence because of fears that it wouldn’t command total observance from the 650 Linfield supporters who travelled to the Midlands.”

  • smcgiff

    ‘650 Linfield supporters’

    That was a decent turn out. Bodes well for the competition.

  • GavBelfast

    Keith, your secular arguments will surely flounder if you don’t concede the obvious, in this case that the Pope was a major and influencing world figure.

    I was making a more general point about the inability of yobbish people to show some respect, hence the references to other examples of where minute’s silences had either been abused, or ignored to avoid them being abused.

    By the way, I am not a Roman Catholic, practising or otherwise, but had a good deal of respect for this Pope, tempered by reservations about his stance on some “moral” issues.

    On the ‘Day of Mourning’ debate, I think there are nine days or mourning in Italy. But no days off. Is that what those callng for it in the Reopublic are reduced to: wanting a lie in?

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Fair play to Linfield. I see on the News Letter this morning Davy Larmour wearing a black armband. Following on from the camogie incident, the Derry friendly and the fact that 650 fans travelled to the midlands for an all-Ireland game, my instinctive fear and distrust for the club has melted substantially and been replaced by respect.

    Hope they win the Setanta Cup next year.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Oh, and as regards the lack of a minute’s silence, all I can say is that it’s a pity, but there were an awful lot of positives to be taken from the occasion to be dwelling on the one negative.

  • Paddy Matthews

    Davros,

    I had asked someone who was at the match whether or not black armbands had been worn after Gav’s question, and she said they hadn’t been. Because of Longford’s colours – black and red – an armband wouldn’t have been very visible. Sorry for misinforming you.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Paddy

    Linfield wore black armbands too.

  • smcgiff

    ‘Hope they win the Setanta Cup next year.’

    It’s not a knock out, Billy, It’s a bit like the champions league cup Competition (I’m sure there’s an oxymoron in there somewhere).

  • maca

    Paddy
    “Heavy Garda presence…”

    Such a shame that all this is really necessary. After all it’s only football *runs for cover*

    Were there any incidents at the game which didn’t make the press, have you heard?
    If not then fair dues to both sets of fans. I hope the remaining games run as well.

    Billy
    “Hope they win the Setanta Cup next year.”

    After Longford Town wins it this year of course!

  • Paddy Matthews

    maca,

    I’m told that the Linfield fans were well-behaved. There were a few choruses of “The Sash” but nothing offensive as far as I know.

    Billy,

    Awkward phrasing on my part. Sorry.

  • Davros

    Don’t worry Paddy Matthews , I know it was an honest mistake.

  • maca

    Thanks Paddy.

  • Keith M

    “your secular arguments will surely flounder if you don’t concede the obvious, in this case that the Pope was a major and influencing world figure.”.

    There are two arguements here. Should there be a day of mourning and/or minutes of silence for major World figures. I believe that there should not. I would hold the same objections to these observances if it was George W.Bush or QE2 that was involved. These observances should be reserved for national figures.

    The second arguement is whether “the Pope was a major and influencing world figure. I wouldn’t question that he was a significant figure. Influencing? On who exactly?

  • smcgiff

    ‘George W.Bush or QE2’

    I certainly agree with you regarding doubleya, but surely the stately QE2 is a maritime achievement worthy of respect.

    ‘On who exactly?’

    It’d be kind of hard to be a significant figure and not have an influence (be it positive or negative).

  • GavBelfast

    Keith, sometimes with you it’s just easier and more satisfying to agree to disagree.

    I know where you’re coming from, but I’m not going there with you.