About that patronising 'advice'..

Today’s Guardian report on the McCartney campaign, by Julian Borger and Angelique Chrisafis, “Bush gives ‘100% backing’ to McCartney sisters”, includes a pertinent comment from Catherine McCartney on the repeated ‘warnings’/”friendly advice” from SF about political manipulation of their campaign for justice – “Would they be saying the same if it was six men?”

  • Dave Ray
  • Henry94

    According to the article Catherine McCartney is a politics lecturer. That was news to me.

  • slug9987

    Henry94 I noticed that but am assuming it is a mistake since all other reports say student.

  • peteb

    Careful, slug, it’s never wise to make assumptions.

    According to the BBC profile of the sisters – from 12 March – Catherine McCartney is “a history and politics teacher”.. if that’s in a further education college, ‘lecturer’ would be an equally valid description.

    and Paula McCartney is a mature student at Queen’s University.

  • Jacko

    Who cares what their occupations are, let’s just say these ladies are no eejits.

  • ricardo

    Exactly Jacko. Disappointingly for the shinners, there’s no-one behind the scenes pulling the McCartney’s strings.

  • spirit-level

    Ricardo maybe the spinners, I’m sorry shinners think that if they stay very very quiet their problems will all go away. ( chuckle )
    Trouble is MMg has a big mouth, and his massive ego can’t keep him off centre stage.
    He’s getting very gaff prone and that’s because he’s not facing morality, and has nowhere to go.
    Expect more gaffs.

  • Travis

    Their favourite little lapdog, Robin Livingstone, has run a dirty rag up the flagpole in his latest column in the Andytown Blues.

    In it he claims that ‘locally, sympathy has turned to anger’ against the McCartney sisters, and mines a piece from the Boston Globe which alleges that Catherine McCartney said she would have difficulty shaking Gerry Adams’ hand.

    It’s the opening salvo in a standard ATN shit job – they’ve perfected it over the years and although it may sway those fickle or fearful (or both) in the heartlands – it has very little effect in the wider media or among the wider population.

    And those targeted usually prosper as a result of Livingstone’s intervention – Emerson, McIntyre, O’ Doherty – to name but a few.

    An honourable exception being an Irish News reporter who had the temerity to suggest the Donegal Celtic play a fixture against the (then) RUC.

    That person ended doing the floor during a al fresco Lenadoon line dance when he visited his mother’s house that Christmas.

    Here’s hoping this attack will have the former effect.

  • SlugFest

    Allow me to play devil’s advocate …

    1. As the McCartneys were lifelong SF supporters, what do you think their reaction would be to the ‘party’ if this had happened to someone else’s family? As in, would they rationalize the coverup as necessary for the movement to move forward?

    2. Who the heck paid for their trip to the U.S.??? If they’re not willing to be played by anyone, how could they accept funding for their trip by an outside party? Considering that they’re a working class family, the odds that they could come up with airfare, hotel, and other expenditures — even at the current exhange rate which shines on the pound vs. the dollar — in such a short amount of time are quit low.

    3. What would happen if Adams and McGuiness both stepped down and retired from active politics? Are there any bright hopes out there for their replacements? If they did step down, does anyone think that would make a difference in their standing either locally or on the world stage?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Slugfest,

    If they are telling the truth that they are a ‘republican family and have ‘always been SF voters’ then they have already rationalised violence subscribed to the IRA.
    Catherine Mc Cartney stated that they were in the USA to dispell any romanticism that surrounded the IRA of the last ten years since the ceasefire.

    Yet by their owmn admission they supported SF throughout this period. They supported SF even after the murder of their neighbour Mickey ‘Moneybags’ Mooney, despite the finger being pointed at the IRA.
    Even more embarrassing for them they supported SF after the murder of Gerrry Mc Cabe. I wonder did the thought cross their minds when meeting his wife.
    That is the reason I believe that they abandoned plans to fight the four Belfast constituencies. Nationalist voters would do what they have historically did themselves.

  • SlugFest

    Pat Mc Larnon,

    Exactly! Though it never occured to me about the real reason why they won’t fight the 4 constituencies.

    I’m still very, very curious as to who funded their trip.

    Also, why WAS Robert McCartney killed? i realize this is an offensive question, and i’m not justifying murder (as if a specific reason could justify it), but i just would like to know whether this ‘pub fight,’ as it originated, was merely a drunken thing gone horribly mad, or was this something brewing (awful pun, i know) for some time and did it have something specifically to do with the IRA (was he making comments/criticisms)?

    What are people actually saying in Belfast in quiet corners and snugs. I’m only getting media coverage (in NY), so i’m curious as to what John Q. Public is saying on the streets of Belfast.

  • Henry94

    Catherine McCartney is “a history and politics teacher”.

    What did Robert do for a living?

  • IJP

    What would happen if Adams and McGuiness both stepped down and retired from active politics?

    Same thing that happened when Mr Arafat passed on, I’d say.

  • Weapons Of Crass Instruction

    “Disappointingly for the Shinners, there’s no-one behind the scenes pulling the McCartney’s strings”

    Well Ricardo, unlike yourself I’m unable to speak on the subject with the obvious absolute authority with which you do however I hope that you’ll indulge me and allow me to exercise my natural curiosity surrounding aspects of the McCartney sisters trip to the States.

    “The White House meeting had been organised through the US consul in Belfast”

    Wow, there must have been a complete regime change since the Consul moved from central to south Belfast. Ever applied for a visa at the Consul? I’m sure that the nice gentlemen that interviewed me for mine must have been seconded onto Abu Gharib or Camp X-Ray intelligence collation judging by the detail, intensiveness and magnitude of their questions [ and that was pre 9/11]. On that basis I would find it highly unlikely that the Consul would give out invitations to the St Pats day bash at the Casablanca willy-nilly unless there was some SERIOUS political influence in the background working to attain said invitations. Try walking into the Consul and asking for an appointment with Georgie boy and you’re just as likely to be arrested by security and questioned as to why you want the appointment.

    “ The sisters had found contact numbers for Senator Edward Kennedy and other prominent politicians on the internet”

    So contact numbers for Teddy Kennedy and other prominent American politicians on such a widely and readily accessible medium as the internet?. An almost inconceivable penalty kick for every anti-war activist, Jihadist, American hater, crank caller, anti globalist and any other configuration of weird and wonderful people that you care to imagine. Sounds to me like someone in a dark suit and sunglasses is gonna get a can of asswhupp opened on his ass for such a security lapse.

    “Their tickets were paid for in part by an unnamed solicitor, whom Catherine McCartney
    said “has no political affiliation but an interest in justice”.

    A mysterious benefactor financing the forces of good in their Herculean battle to overcome injustice eh?. Funny that, I spoke to a friend yesterday who told me they had been speaking with a person very close to the McCartneys who had inadvertently let slip that the entire American trip had been completely financed by a particularly odious Sunday scandal sheet with a ‘born, bred and buttered in Belfast’ image. I find it difficult to believe that a solicitor will personally fund anything in the interests of justice out of their own pockets but I suppose if they have a Sunday tabloid as a client and that client instructs the solicitor to finance them then, strictly speaking, the finance is coming from the solicitor.

    Let’s put things into perspective Ricardo, Bert McCartney was stabbed to death in a barroom brawl . A number of individuals were allegedly involved in the stabbing with those individuals allegedly using their status in the Republican Movement to cover up the CRIME which they had committed. I believe that those individuals should be held liable for their actions.

    I believe that the McCartney sisters are strong, articulate and intelligent women. I also believe that strong, articulate and intelligent people or whatever sex have been exploited and manipulated in the past and no doubt there is and will be potential for this to happen again. I support the McCartneys and hope in their case they are able to resist the advances of those whose motives are other than altruistic.

    IF the McCartneys succumb to the temptations of others who seek to use them as a device to criminalize Sinn Féin and, by extension, an entire community who vote for Sinn Féin then rest assured that this attempted recriminalization will be just as vigorously resisted as it was in the past.

  • ulsterman

    The word is that Robert McCartney was a petit criminal. In the early 1990s he worked in the post office but was sacked for stealing credit cards and passing them on to known criminals,guess who. He was due to appear in court in the next few weeks for again petit crimes.

    He was no angel. The McCartney sisters did indeed continue to vote SF even after the deaths of thousands of innocent people by the IRA. No one will ever know what went on in that pub are what the meeting was about.Indeed why were so many top Republicans meeting together?. The hypocrisy of the whole thing is nauseating. I dont think the whole truth will ever come out.Certainly the sisters have not told all they know.

    Catherine is a part time politics lecturer, Paula is a mature student and one is a nurse. They also own a restaurant in Belfast city centre. There parents live in Spain.

    God Save The Queen.

  • SlugFest

    Ulsterman,

    So it was a meeting? See, i didn’t even know that much … i thought a bunch of folks just happened to be in a pub after going to the Bloody Sunday commemoration. So this was a planned meeting. I wonder who took the minutes down.

  • SeamusG

    “Catherine is a part time politics lecturer, Paula is a mature student and one is a nurse. They also own a restaurant in Belfast city centre. There parents live in Spain.”
    So what?
    And trying to blacken the name of a murder victim doesn’t inform the debate either.

  • ulsterman

    I dont think I would have been very welcome in that pub so I am afraid i dont know. hehe.

    God Save The Queen.

  • ulsterman

    Earlier someone asked what the sisters did for a living. Secondly a criminal past portrays a very different image that the whiter the whiter image the McCartneys are portraying.No one but himself blackened his name.

    God Save The Queen.

  • PaddyCanuck

    Ulsterman,

    What are your sources? PSNI\RUC?

    When you say a meeting was taking place, I believe you mean that people were meeting for a drink.

    The family own a holiday home in Spain, they do not live there.

    Slugfest, Ulsterman is not a reliable source, do not take him at his word.

  • ulsterman

    Their parents live in Spain. Not that that is important.

  • PaddyCanuck

    What are your sources Ulsterman?

  • ulsterman

    Prove what I have said is wrong. It is the truth.
    Their parents retired to live in Spain.

  • SlugFest

    PaddyCanuck,

    Okay, thanks. I was just about to jump to the conclusion that the ‘meeting’ was about McCartney himself.

  • ulsterman

    The meeting could have been about anything. Certainly McCartney was present in the pub. Sources say McCartney and his friend started the fight but I think there was more to it than that.

    The Sisters dossier makes interesting reading.

  • PaddyCanuck

    Ulsterman, if the Dossier is so interesting, why do you not publish the dossier? share it with us all.

    Where did you obtain it? From your PSNI sources?

  • SeamusG

    That would be the sound of tumbleweed blowing across an empty street as we await Ulsterman’s response to P-C’s last posting….

  • ulsterman

    Prove anything I have said is wrong.

  • PaddyCanuck

    Share the dossier, you made claims, the onus is on you to substantiate.

  • Clady Cowboy

    Why is it endlessly repeated that the IRA killed ‘thousands’?
    Now either my maths has detioriated or else those who suggest thousands are at best mis-informed or thick and at worst attempting to play the ‘we’re all as bad as each other card’.
    If the IRA were to continue(God forbid) killing at its rate for the next few millenia it would not come close to equalling the gigantic killing spree that the British protaganists have inflicted on this island. Not fecking close.Never,never,never. NEVER.
    The IRA has not killed 2,000 people during our ‘troubles’,please,oh please my Christian brothers and sisters cease from peddling this myth

  • ulsterman

    No I wont. It is up to the McCartney family to publish it. There are a lot of inconsistencies in their story and they wont publish.

    I believe that the sisters will run for the council and will merely be another nail in the coffin of the SDLP.

    God Save The Queen.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Cowboy, I’m not a Christian. You may not like it but the republicans of one form or another killed 2001 people between 1969 and 1998, which is more than everyone else put together (source – Fay, Smith, Morrissey ISBN 0-7453-1374-4). In terms of the volume of killing carried out the republicans come out on top, which pretty much lays to rest the notion that they were a defensive organization of any kind.

  • Clady Cowboy

    Roger,
    I too am not a Christian though i do admire many of the ideals attributed to Jesus Christ. I take your word for it that 2,001 were killed by ‘Republicans of one form or another’ but still my adhere to the fact that the IRA didn’t kill thousands. The British killed tens of thousands directly and millions,yes,millions indirectly.
    I don’t think of the IRA entirely as a defensive organisation. It may have engaged at a time when it needed to defend but the attacks on Irish people over the decades could not but ensure a violent backlash. The IRA were no more criminal than the French resistance in their battle against a stronger and victorious invading Nazi force.

  • vespasian

    Folks

    Read this all very carefully and you could draw the conclusion that it it is Sinn Fein on an orchestrated blacken the McCartney sisters campaign.

    This case has a simple foundation whch is not disputed by anyone. It is that IRA members killed Robert McCartney, IRA members tried to cover it up by removing evidence, IRA members intimidated people to stop them giving evidence, the IRA offered to shoot the guilty parties in a written statement. Robert McCartney’s sisters however want the guilty tried in court and are campaigning for it to happen.

    Why is it important who paid for the trip as long as the money used was obtained from a legal source and not from criminal activities?

    Why are the jobs of the family important?

    Why is it important where their parents live?

    Why is Robert McCartney’s background important?

    Why is the sister’s voting record important?

    What is important is that the sisters have run a very effective campaign using assistance from whatever sources they could and SF and the IRA are less than happy to be challenged by those from ‘within’ never mind those from ‘without’.

    So read all that appears here from the SF posters and from Ulsterman, whose posts are increasingly strange, with a very large dose of salt.

  • Frankie

    Ulsterman :

    There was not a meeting taking place in Mc Guinness’ – thats a fact.

    Mc Cartneys parents have split since the death of the older brother the father lived with Robert the mother lived in North Belfast beside her sister/s. So it would be impossible for them to live in Spain.

    You need to let you handlers know they are filling you full of dung.

    Vespasian

    Why is the sister’s voting record important?

    Many a coffin was carried out of the Short Strand belonging to families murdered by RUC , BA , UVF , IRA etc the Mc Cartney’s never showed there faces so lets not swallow the “they voted for Sinn Fein” stories.

  • vespasian

    Frankie

    ‘Many a coffin was carried out of the Short Strand belonging to families murdered by RUC , BA , UVF , IRA etc the Mc Cartney’s never showed there faces so lets not swallow the “they voted for Sinn Fein” stories.’

    I ask the same question again.

    Why is the sister’s voting record important?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘Why is the sister’s voting record important?’

    Read my 6.33pm post, it indicates the hypocricy that has encroached upon their campaign.

  • vespasian

    PMcL

    Is it hypocritical to want to see your brother’s murders answer for their deeds in a court of law?

    If you believe that then you have a very odd view of the world and how it should be run!

    You obviously subscribe to the theory that because you have been wrong in the past you can’t be right now. Now if that had been rigourously applied to SF and the IRA where would they be today?

    Why don’t you stop spinning and accept that regardless of their past they have the right to see their brother’s killers in court, just as any other sisters would have in the same situation.

    I only wish other families on both sides of the divide felt safe to do the same for their loved ones, such as the man who died yesterday after the attack at the Chimney Corner, but we all know that due to gangsterism and intimidation they don’t feel safe.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    vespasian,

    ‘Is it hypocritical to want to see your brother’s murders answer for their deeds in a court of law blah blah blah’

    No one said it was. But I do tend to find that people like yourself tend to invent positions to attack rather that query what was actually said. You are comfortable with your one dimensional approach. Go back and read what I actually had to say, if you do and manage to come up with a coherent argument, attempt to post it.

  • GavBelfast

    ” …. Ulsterman, whose posts are increasingly strange ….”

    Ulsterman went a rant-too-far a couple of weeks back and outed him/herself as an out-and-out republican, a charlatan ranting in ultra-DUP lingo to ridicule the unionist viewpoint.

    So, not strange at all in that context.

    Getting back to point, I cannot think anyone who had a close family member murdered who would not seek justice and to expose anyone who got in the way of same, as Sinn Fein/IRA have been doing. It’s really very simple.

  • IJP

    Pat

    Sorry, but you haven’t backed up your claims of hypocrisy.

    Just be careful not to allow yourself to be manipulated by SF.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    IJP,

    there are none so blind that those that will not see. I quite clearly have.

    ‘Just be careful not to allow yourself to be manipulated by SF.’

    Is that a serious point, any wonder that the Alliance Party is the pathetic bunch of has beens that it now is, well done.

  • IJP

    Is that a serious point, any wonder that the Alliance Party is the pathetic bunch of has beens that it now is, well done.

    It’s as serious as your point about the McCartney sisters being manipulated by the media.

    Better pathetic has-beens that apologists for murderers.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    IJP,

    better take that up with apologists for murderers.

  • IJP

    Will do, Pat, will do.

  • samneilson

    Good to see that PSF never manipulate the media. I have to say that it is increasingly become a game of cat and mouse between the McCartneys and PSF. As a major multi national would say, politically, ‘I’m loving it..!!!’ PSF aren’t getting it all their own way and it great seeing how their propaganda machine throughout the island is trying to get their wat out of this– especially as the PSF party has got their hacks to spin the same line on every media outlet. Its especially laughable in Derry where PSF sympathisers from their offices and local ( successful and failed) representatives are trying to talk up their chances and limit any political fallout.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Everyone in the public domain manipulates the media to a greater or lesser extent. Just as the media manipulates them.