A McCartney would take more votes from SDLP

Whatever you think about the behaviour of Sinn Fein in the face of the evisceration of Robert McCartney by a group of IRA men, this snippet of political analysis from Daily Ireland is probably bang on the money.

  • Jacko

    Mick

    What analysis?
    No explanation on how or why the writer holds this view. Just an opinion, which may or may not be accurate.

  • GavBelfast

    I suspect the McCartney sisters would take votes off everyone, but that any disaffected SF voters might be more likely to abstain.

    But the question has to be asked of SF voters – what are they voting for if no one will deal with them?

    OK, as things stand there won’t be a local administration without them, but there certainly won’t be one with them either.

    And that seems to suit a lot of ordinary unionist people a lot more than it does them.

  • Jimmy Sands

    The argument seems to be that those who object to murder are not SF voters to begin with. It has a ring of truth to it, but it’s an odd argument for the VB to be pushing.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘But the question has to be asked of SF voters – what are they voting for if no one will deal with them?’

    Of course people will deal with them I haven’t heard any party say that they will never deal with SF ever again. It is simply a matter of circumstances.

    The analysis of the Mc Cartneys taking more votes off the SDLP than SF (if they decide to stand) is of course correct. The also risk their cause becoming more overtly party political.

    Catherine Mc Cartney seemed to be off message with her intial speech after arriving in the USA, the one about ‘dispelling romantic notions etc etc’. This had nothing to do with their justice campaign and seems to have been dropped since then.

  • Mick Fealty

    Jacko, I did say it was a snippet!

  • Jacko

    “Catherine Mc Cartney seemed to be off message with her intial speech after arriving in the USA, the one about ‘dispelling romantic notions etc etc’. This had nothing to do with their justice campaign and seems to have been dropped since then.”

    It has everything to do with their campaign for justice, in terms of provisional myth versus the reality of the Short Strand and Derry butchers.

    There were never any concerns expressed by the SF underlings about the possibility of the Finucane case becoming “party political”.

  • Circles

    Nice try to coin a phrase there Jacko with the butchers addendum – but that one has been done already. A long time ago.

    But it certainly would hurt the SDLP more than SF – unless of course they ran somewhere where the SDLP couldn’t suffer much anyway. It wouldn’t do their search for justice much good either.

  • Rebecca Black

    Well, presumably they would run in east belfast where they are from, wouldn’t they? Theres no point in them running for Westminster but they should run for local gov.

  • Mick Fealty

    Circles:

    “It wouldn’t do their search for justice much good either”.

    In your view what would further that cause?

  • Ireland Today

    “It wouldn’t do their search for justice much good either.” by Circles misses the whole point.

    The McCartney’s search for justice requires breaking the hold Sinn Fein/IRA have on the Short Strand, a hold that prevents witnesses from coming forward. McCartney running for public office is exactly the right way to do it.

    Sinn Fein fear democracy as a vampire fears daylight. McGuinness let his mask slip the other day and now Daily Ireland are joining him in trying to scare McCartney off. I hope she goes for it.

  • Henry94

    I had assumed the SDLP would stand aside for the Mccartneys. There isn’t much point in splitting the pro-PSNI vote.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    At least we are having a bit of honesty from some posters. The campaign has nothing to do with Robert Mc Cartney and justice and everything to with damaging SF. the truth was bound to surface sooner or later.

  • Circles

    Its good to see the McCartney have a spokesamn posting. Thanks for clearing up their intentions Ireland Today – I foolishly hadn’t realised the McCartneys were actually more into “breaking the hold Sinn Fein/IRA have on the Short Strand”.
    I thought it was more about making sure their brothers murderers were brought before the court.

    But if that is their aim, as you seem to be so sure, maybe you can explain why the agreed to appear at the SF ArdFheis.

  • Circles

    I think they were actually doing a fairly good job of putting pressure on getting the murderers and witnesses to come forward with their campaign pre-USA.
    Extremely effective and creating a huge ground swell of empathy and well directed antagonism to squeeze the murderers out. I don’t see what running for election would do to enhance this.

    Bit short reply there but in a rush

  • barney

    Why not run in West Belfast where most of the electorate want to see them in politics? Unionists would be only too delighted to step aside, in the interests of truth and justice.

    Long live Norn Irony.

  • Ireland Today

    Circles:

    I assume you are a Sinn Fein supporter so I will address you as such.

    You guys think you own everything, including the right to run for public office, in the areas you now control by the naked use of terror.

    That is what is denying the McCartney’s justice. They should challenge that hegemony everywhere they find it including at the ballot box. I hope they do.

    I hope that far from standing aside as is suggested, Mark Durkan will welcome them into the SDLP where they belong. The SDLP have been championing the rule of law, which is all the McCartneys are asking for, from the beginning.

    The SDLP joined the PSNI in order to provide exactly what Sinn Fein are denying the McCartney’s – the rule of law. They are unable to get justice because they are trapped in a ghetto under your rule, Provo rule.

  • GavBelfast

    Terms like “Sinn Fein bashing” were bound to surface sooner or later – it’s SO victimhood!

    I even heard someone (who denied having anything to do with Sinn Fein/the IRA, of course) on ‘TalkBack’ today saying that attacks on Adams and McGuinness were attacks on the whole community that voted for SF. How come?

    So what anyway? Isn’t Sinn Fein big, ugly and wealthy enough to take it on the chin?

    It’s only words after all – no one is physically hurting them.

    If you can dish it out, ….

  • IJP

    Pat

    In order to bring justice to the McCartneys, it is necessary to expose SF, as it is obstructing the McCartneys’ case.

    SF is happy to support the principle of the IRA shooting people (human rights?) without fair trial (justice?) before they had any chance to defend themselves (equality?). It is not happy to support due process of making statements to the police (accountable to the Police Ombudsman and Police Board) to bring forward a charge which will be heard by an independent court.

    Human Rights, justice and equality depend on an independent court system overseen by democratic structures accountable to the people, not one overseen by SF accountable to the IRA. For all SF’s words of supports, its actions are obstructive.

    I am on record already as having said the electorate should decide from the current bunch which party is most likely to bring real justice and equality to all of us. The McCartneys’ case would be muddied by any entry into the electoral arena.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    IJP,

    ‘In order to bring justice to the McCartneys, it is necessary to expose SF, as it is obstructing the McCartneys’ case.’

    That is an opinion that I don’t subscribe to.

    ‘SF is happy to support the principle of the IRA shooting people.’

    Can you substantiate that?

    ‘It is not happy to support due process of making statements to the police’

    They are on record as stating that anyone happy to provide statements to the PSNI should do so. Recognising the fact (as do the PSNI) that some people have a problem dealing directly with the PSNI then they have advised peple to go to their solicitor or the Police Ombudsman.

    ‘Human Rights, justice and equality depend on an independent court system overseen by democratic structures accountable to the people,’

    Absolutely right and despite being under an obligation through the GFA to bring in reforms of the whole judicial process seven ears on the British Government has failed to do so.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘years’

  • spirit-level

    “The McCartney’s search for justice requires breaking the hold Sinn Fein/IRA have on the Short Strand, a hold that prevents witnesses from coming forward. McCartney running for public office is exactly the right way to do it.

    Sinn Fein fear democracy as a vampire fears daylight. McGuinness let his mask slip the other day and now Daily Ireland are joining him in trying to scare McCartney off. I hope she goes for it.”
    Exactly, Ireland today:
    SF are hoping this will just die a death after St.Paddy’s. The idea that people come forward and the police might actually solve this would weaken SF’s grip of fear they hold nationalist communities in and maybe be a slide towards people rejecting them.
    That’s what SF are worried about ,and are just paying lipservice to the McCartneys desire for justice, no more no less and it is EVIL.
    I hope she stands.
    oops I’m supposed to be taking the piss from now on. Spirit-level stop taking SF and their cowardly supporters seriously.

  • SlugFest

    This link to the Irish Echo brings up a good point … who paid for the McCartney sisters’ trip??? Find that out, and we’d know who is backing their (assumed/hoped for/frowned upon/whichever you like) political aspirations.

    http://www.irishecho.com/newspaper/story.cfm?id=16163

  • Oilbhéar Chromaill

    Ireland Today claims the SDLP and the PSNI are for the ‘rule of law’ yet the PSNI are refusing to arrest suspects who have come forward in relation to the McCartney killing and the SDLP are providing the apologies.

    Justice delayed is justice denied in my book

    Given their performance in the US and their extraordinary self serving tripe in today’s Sunday Independent, the McCartney sisters have squandered the massive support from the republican community for their campaign for justice. If they want to run for election they should – but don’t expect this vote.

    The McCartney’s cause is just – but their inclination never to pass up an opportunity to snipe at SInn Féin and, particularly, Gerry Adams is puttinng off those who would have supported them.

  • JC47

    The McCartney sisters say they paid for the trip themselves.Flights + Hotel expenses were propably
    £650 each. Could they afford this without being bankrolled by anybody? Sinn Fein supporteers will probably continue to use expenses as a smear against the sisters.
    Papers are saying the killers of Robert McCartney led the St.Pats day parade in the Short Strand;- is this accurate?
    The sisters are now saying that a ‘senior sinn fein offical’was in the bar during the killing. Any idea who it was?

  • Henry94

    The Sunday Independent have published them for a diary of their trip by the sisters. I assume they are being paid for that.

  • Henry94

    correction

    The Sunday Independent have published a diary of their trip by the sisters. I assume they are being paid for that.

  • IJP

    Pat

    Can you substantiate that?

    Yes, SF initially stated only that shooting the murderers would have been a mistake because the family didn’t want it, not that the offer was a mistake. It took several days for it even to hint that the offer wasn’t too clever, and even then that was clearly couched in terms that it was a tactical mistake.

    SF supports maintenance of the IRA, which made and publicized the offer.

    Its failure to support justice and policing institutions is nothing to do with the ‘Brits’ and everything to do with a failure to deal with the concept that ‘Republican Heartlands’ are not to be run solely by SF and the IRA. That is the whole point of the McCartneys’ case.

    Henry

    What’s your point?

  • Henry94

    IJP

    My point is that the Sindo money might help explain how they paid for the trip.

  • Oilbhéar Chromaill

    On another thread I read earlier this week that they had admitted getting donations from some political parties before they left for Washington – now they seem to be singing a different tune.

    I don’t know whether they got paid by the Sunday Indo – Ireland Today has the same diary on its website and unless he lifted it from the Sunday Indo site (and I have no information to suggest that he did) it seems that the Sunday Indo might just have accessed something which is in the public domain in the US and, in typical Sunday Indo (lack of0 style slapped an exclusive tag on it.

  • Henry94

    In that case I would have been misled by the front of the Sindo and I withdraw the suggestion. I should have known better than to believe a word in that paper.