Unionists 'hypocrites' over McCartney death

The father of a man whose son was murdered by loyalist paramilitaries has accused unionists of hypocrisy over the murder of Raymond McCord, 22, who was beaten to death and his body dumped in a north Belfast quarry in 1997.

McCord believes the police Special Branch blocked the police inquiry into the murder to protect a high-ranking Ulster Volunteer Force informer and is disgusted over the silence from the DUP and UUP when compared with their reaction to the McCartney murder.

“Myself and other victims are absolutely disgusted over the stance the Democratic Unionists and Ulster Unionists have taken on Robert McCartney. Why can’t they look at things closer to home? They have failed the people who voted them in.”

Mr McCord, who has spoken out against the UVF men he insists were behind the merciless attack, praised the McCartney family’s tireless campaign.

“I totally support what the sisters are doing. I went to visit them at their house, I’ve been on the phone to them and I hope they get justice,” he insisted.

“But why have people within unionism stayed silent on the murders of our sons? The UVF has murdered something like 30 Protestant people since their so-called ceasefire.”

Even Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams has publicly called for the McCartney killers to come forward and give statements to Mrs O’Loan’s office, he added.

“It seems to me that nationalist MPs have no qualms about fighting for their community but within unionism it’s the complete opposite. The stance they have taken, and their hypocrisy, is staggering.”

  • Young Irelander

    Mr McCord is absolutely right.Unionists are quick to open their mouths about IRA terrorism but when loyalists are involved they go strangely quiet.It’s just not good enough.

    I haven’t heard much condemnation from Unionists about the attack on the SDLP’s Carmel Hanna yesterday by loyalist thugs.Sickening hypocrisy.

  • JD

    Hello darkness, my old friend.

  • spirit-level

    The whole of NornIron is in darkness

  • jimmyquickswipe

    Not taking away from the deed, but the UVF don’t have a mandate and subsequently aren’t holding the governing of Northern Ireland to ransom with their actions, Sinn Fein are.

    Unionism for example doesn’t have half a dozen UVF or UDA MPs, about a ton of UVF or UDA councillors or about a score of MLAs. Nationalism on the other hand isn’t bothered what dregs of society it votes in.

  • IJP

    Well said, YI.

    And despite the SDLP’s sickening sectarianism on some points and pathetic failure to walk the walk as well as talk the talk on standing up for democracy and rule-of-law, it is to its credit that its leader has intervened on this issue.

  • IJP

    Sorry JQS, but ‘mainstream Unionism’ has obvious links to Loyalist terrorists, from sharing platforms with them to inviting them to Burns Suppers.

    If it really wanted nothing to do with Loyalist terrorism, it would come out categorically time after time and say so. It doesn’t. Like I say, don’t forget the Ulster Covenant…

  • Liam

    Of course unionism has links with the UVF and UDA – they sit with them on the Loyalist Commission and the Parades Forum – but the links are much wider and deeper than that.

    Mr. McCord is right. The silence of the political leaders of unionism exposes their hypocrisy.

    What about Lisa Dorrian? There seems to be no scope for political advantage in the case of this young girl, therefore there is not a word from them. Shame on them.

  • GavBelfast

    Liam, proof of these “deeper links” you speak of?

    In your last paragraph, you answer your own conundrum.

    A lot of Unionist politicians are hypocrites (and pretty useless generally, besides), but who could resist the opportunity to capitalise on Adams/McGuinness’s discomfort?

    It’s hard to think of many high profile murders/atrocities/incidents here where someone or other hasn’t tried to make capital (pro or con) out of same. That’s a feature of this place, and depressing in itself.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    The attack on Carmel Hanna was, to be fair, a very minor incident, even Sammy wilson seemed to get it as far as I coyuld see.

  • Will

    I have some sympathy for Raymond McCord and I would hope that the killers of his son are brought to justice and flung in jail for a very long time in the same way that most people hope that the McCartney killers will be jailed.

    Unionist politicians have called for people to go to the POLICE, not just Nuala O’Loane in the case of Raymond McCord Jnr and every other killing – while Mr McCord highlights Adams supposed support for justice does he not feel a little strange supporting a man who not only heads the organisation which killed Raymond McCartney but which carried out a forensic cover-up to prevent evidence being collected, then actively prevented the police from carrying out house to house searches and any support which eventually has come has been due to intense media hype (caused again because of the incredible SF hypocrisy).

    If, for example, there had been UUP or DUP members in the vicinity of the area where Raymond McCord was killed but mysteriously failed to give statements for weeks on end until they were finally shamed into it by the press then there may be cause to draw parallels. We also hear a lot of baseless rubbish about supposed ‘links’ between unionist parties and loyalist paramilitaries but no-one in their right mind describes them as ‘two sides of the one coin’ or with ‘linkages at every level’ as can be described about Sinn Fein/IRA.

    Unionist politicians have criticised Sinn Fein because of their active opposition to justice in the immediate aftermath to Robert McCartney’s killing and the massive media-driven u-turn they have been carrying out ever since.

    If there is any evidence of the UUP or DUP carrying out a forensic clean-up after Raymond McCord’s death or intimidating witnesses into not going to the police, or telling witnesses that they should go on any kind of ’round the houses’ route about bringing forward information rather than going directly to the police and making a formal statement then I would possible agree with MrMcCord and I would never vote for those parties ever again.

  • cg

    Will

    When you say ‘linkages at every level’

    What exactly do you mean?

  • Will

    cg,

    I only very slightly misquoted, but its from Paul Murphy in the House of Commons. I think the proper quote still sums up the sentiments of my original post.

    Paul Murphy – House of Commons 22nd Feb 2005
    “I have indicated more than once in the House that I believe that there are absolute linkages between the IRA and Sinn Fein at all levels.”

    Ref:

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id=2005-02-22.183.4

  • cg

    What do you mean by linkages at every level, I understand It came from Murphy’s quote but what did you think that meant?

  • Will

    I personally feel it recognises that the links between Sinn Fein and the IRA dont just stop at some of the high profile Sinn Fein members sitting on the Army Council (most focus is usually on that) but it reflects that Sinn Fein is steeped in the IRA – it is unable to untangle itself from terrorism, murder, criminality and all forms of thuggery.

    What do you think it means?

  • cg

    I know it’s bullshit but I was just wondering what others thought it meant.

  • spirit-level

    It ain’t bullshit cg

  • cg

    I know better than you spirit-level and it is bullshit, total bullshit.

  • Will

    CG,
    You know better than us, so that’s it… no questions asked???

    Catch yerself on!!!

    But, what do you think Murphy meant by it?

  • spirit-level
  • cg

    I know Sinn Féin and the IRA are not linked at at all levels because I am in the party and have been involved in various levels and KNOW it is 110% utter crap.

    Listen Will you may wish that was the case, you may also believe it is the case but it doesn’t make it true.

    Get a grip

  • cg

    I believe Murphy, as per usual, was talking out of his backside.

  • Clady Cowboy

    Spirit,

    Who should northern nationalists vote for if they want a united ireland? Surely not SDLP?

    The IRA is a symptom of a sick society, like anti-bodies fending of the illness of unionist supremacy. It has mutated in a body that is harming its own host. Northern nationalists with the help from the few in our ‘Republic’ who give a shit will find a cure

  • Will

    cg,
    I didnt ask for your opinion on the validity or otherwise of his comments, but rather your opinions on what he meant when he said them…..

    Care to tell us?

  • Young Irelander

    Clady Cowboy,

    Why not the SDLP?Unionists do not hate this party with a passion.They hate SF with a passion though.Considering under the GFA (which SF supports apparently), unity will only
    occur by a majority North and South voting for it.That means unionists need to be convinced.
    Do you think Sinn Fein will ever convince them?

    If northern nationalists want a UI, why are they voting for a party like Sinn Fein which is doing its utmost to maintain a divided society in the North?It just doesn’t make any sense.

  • cg

    The problem the sdlp face YI is that many Nationalists hate them with a passion.

    Will

    I couldn’t possibly tell you what is going through Murphy’s head; I am a Law student not a Psychology student.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    “I know Sinn Féin and the IRA are not linked at at all levels because I am in the party and have been involved in various levels and KNOW it is 110% utter crap.”

    You’re a party member so you’re not going to come out in public and contradict the party line, especially the way things are. In any case it isn’t true. Look at the party members who, it turned out, were in Maginnesses and who – strangely – saw nothing whatsoever untoward other than a bit of a commotion. Trying to deny that there is a close connection between SF and the IRA is daft.

  • spirit-level

    Clady I think you answered you’re own question there.
    Right on Roger

  • Young Irelander

    cg,

    You can’t compare antagonism towards the SDLP from some nationalists to the unbridled hatred that unionists feel for Sinn Fein.

  • Clady Cowboy

    Young Irelander,

    Proud tradition thatis,Young islanders.Vote SDLP? What Malcolm X would call ‘house-negroes’. I wouldn’t rule out voting SDLP if i was certain it actually wanted a united ireland(geo-political). I don’t think it does though, having said that the South is economically superior now to ‘our wee province’ so maybe they will chuck in their ideology with a re-unification, sure they just follow the money.

    Interesting points you made. Not entirely sure if unionist revulsion to united ireland is based on who is the salesman of the product or the product itself.

    Still, we’ll have a bidding war for votes soon with the UUP dropping the Orange order and Republicans soon to stand down the IRA.

    How about a fantastic young humanist leader for Sinn Fein, would that attract unionists to Republicanism?

  • cg

    Roger

    “You’re a party member so you’re not going to come out in public and contradict the party line, especially the way things are”

    Are you accusing me of telling lies?

    “Trying to deny that there is a close connection between SF and the IRA is daft.”

    I never said that Roger, I said “I know Sinn Féin and the IRA are not linked at at all levels”

    To suggest there is linkage at all levels is just nonsense.

  • cg

    “cg,

    You can’t compare antagonism towards the SDLP from some nationalists to the unbridled hatred that unionists feel for Sinn Fein.”

    I am talking about Unbridled hatred towards the sdlp.

  • spirit-level

    cg you’re a law student
    I’m a psychology student
    and I can tell you for a fact that Martin McGuiness speaks with a forked-tongue.
    The man is a master illusionist, a great hypnotist. He spins a web like a spider.
    A classic case study in deception.
    (If you’re interested I’ll send you a detailed
    diagnosis.)
    I want a United Ireland , but he does not represent me. I cannot understand how you can be a member of a party like that and still believe he’ll deliver the long sought for goal.
    He just won’t, and at the end of the day
    you’ll have to see that for yourself.
    I don’t speak for the SDLP, but for god sakes ditch that loser, he’s like out of a hammer house of horrors and sends shivers down my spine eveytime I hear him speak.

  • cg

    I disagree with you SL but send the diagnosis please 🙂

  • Young Irelander

    cg,

    You don’t have to play the SF game here.I spoke about the antagonism felt towards Sinn Fein by Unionists and you seem unconcerned.You just speak of antagonism towards the SDLP instead.
    How are SF going to deliver you a UI?

  • cg

    What do you mean by playing the “SF game”

  • Young Irelander

    Ducking the questions.

  • cg

    I am not ducking questions, I have been answering questions all night on more than one site.

    I do believe the party’s outreach to unionism programme needs to be improved. We need to show Unionists that their intrests are better served in a UI.

  • spirit-level

    Please have the debate cg as I’d like to hear your views on SF achieving the UI goal and Young Irelanders on how SDLP would do it.
    re: MMg profile. Its a long thesis, it’ll be a while before I’ve finished it, Gotta watch some more Boris Karloff movies;)

  • cg

    SL, LOL

    I am trying my best to answer the questions but I don’t have all the answers otherwise there would be a UI already but I am prepared to work with anyone in order to achieve a UI.

    I support the establishment of a Unity group to help trash out ideas and suggestions on how to move the process forward and to present a co-ordinated and cohesive argument.

  • Clady Cowboy

    Why is so much harder for us Northern nationalists?

    I mean the south acheived its freedom by brutal violence and the unionists acheived and held on to the union by centuries of brutal violence and the ever-present threat of violence.
    Have a little sympathy for us Spirit-level and Young Irelander!!

  • spirit-level

    To wit or to woo? the unionists.
    Maybe do some comedy get them to laugh a bit
    how bout a “sack cloth and ashes sketch”
    Make em feel loved!

  • spirit-level

    Clady I do have sympathy, I like your:
    How about a fantastic young humanist leader for Sinn Fein, would that attract unionists to Republicanism?

  • spirit-level

    How bout cg goes down to see MMg at his surgery and says menacingly:
    Aye want ure job Noye Marrtin

  • Clady Cowboy

    Spirit,

    A brutalised community has been brutal to others, although a shame,was it such a surprise? We are no longer brutalised, we know only too well the way of injustice and the depravity of violence. These truths can create the building blocks of true republicanism within the people of the next generation who will seek to embrace protestants in its founding.
    It will take time.

    Til another time, Happy St.Patricks day tp you all!!!

  • cg

    “How bout cg goes down to see MMg at his surgery and says menacingly:
    Aye want ure job Noye Marrtin”

    LOL, Firstly I don’t talk like that and secondly Martin is doing a fantastic job in the party and has the full support of the party.

    This sort of talk really is nonsense.

    btw I appreciate your vote of confidence in myself but Martin is a much better man for the job than I 😉

  • IJP

    cg

    The charge against you that you have not been answering questions directly is indeed unfair.

    However, insulting even my own party colleagues because of their religion (as a senior colleague of yours did recently) is hardly indicative of a serious outreach strategy to unionists. If you say you are genuine about this, that’s good, but your party leadership and general elected representation is not.

  • spirit-level

    Moving words spoken from the heart. Thank you.
    I am one who doesn’t need converting as I am a friend of unionism.

    Happy St.Patricks to you too too Clady Cowboy.

  • cg

    “However, insulting even my own party colleagues because of their religion (as a senior colleague of yours did recently) is hardly indicative of a serious outreach strategy to unionists”

    I am not farmiliar with this situtation, who exactly?

    “If you say you are genuine about this, that’s good, but your party leadership and general elected representation is not.”

    What evidence to you have for this sweeping statement.

    So do you now accept Ian that your party are Unionists 😉

    “insulting even my own party colleagues because of their religion (as a senior colleague of yours did recently) is hardly indicative of a serious outreach strategy to unionists”

  • IJP

    I am not farmiliar with this situation, who exactly?

    Tom Hartley. I believe the quote was ‘You wouldn’t understand Republicanism, you’re a Presbyterian.’

    What evidence to you have for this sweeping statement.

    Sorry to ‘do a Willowfield’ on you, but it is you who must show evidence, as you are making the claim that such an outreach strategy exists despite the total lack of evidence.

    So do you now accept Ian that your party are Unionists 😉

    The lack of respect for other people’s genuinely held legitimate convictions does you no favours either, although since it’s St Patrick’s Day I’ll accept that as a joke!

    The point, as you well know, is that if your representatives insult even my party colleagues, you’re not exactly in a position to do too much persuading of Unionists.

    Put another way, why should I vote SF?

  • cg

    “Tom Hartley. I believe the quote was ‘You wouldn’t understand Republicanism, you’re a Presbyterian.'”

    I didn’t hear that but if it did occur it is incorrect.

    “Sorry to ‘do a Willowfield’ on you, but it is you who must show evidence, as you are making the claim that such an outreach strategy exists despite the total lack of evidence.”

    Oh no you don’t you suggested the ” party leadership and general elected representation is not” following this.

    There fore it is YOU who must produce evidence.

    “The lack of respect for other people’s genuinely held legitimate convictions does you no favours either”

    I am not showing disrespect to anyone but your party has always said it isn’t a unionist party yet you claimed the comments by Tom were “hardly indicative of a serious outreach strategy to unionists”

    You suggest that your party collegues are unionist, I am merely clearing up a contradiction.

  • Young Irelander

    I’ve been impressed with this thread.An intelligent civil discussion that hasn’t descended into a slanging match.Anyway, it’s time for me to say Oiche mhaith.

    Happy St.Patrick’s Day to you Chris, IJP, spirit-level, Clady Cowboy and everyone else at Slugger.

  • cg

    YI

    Lá Fhéile Pádraig Shona dhuit 🙂

    Oíche Mhaith

  • aquifer

    “Tom Hartley. I believe the quote was ‘You wouldn’t understand Republicanism, you’re a Presbyterian.'”

    Is Tom not a literary man? Maybe he was using irony and you missed it?

    Equality, law, democracy, presbys have that stuff hard wired do they not? They even have the King under contract. Trouble is they take the printed word seriously and each got their own copy of the GFA with ‘decommissioning’ in it.

  • pakman

    the only hypocrites are those currently exclaiming outrage over one murder yet who remained silent (at best) over other countless hundreds killed by republicans. My erstwhile namesake from New Jersey springs automatically to mind.

  • IJP

    cg

    You claimed such a strategy existed. I said it clearly didn’t, or we would have evidence of one.

    I added, to confirm that there isn’t one, that SF representatives will gladly make bigoted remarks about Protestants. Since most Unionists are Protestants, this plus the lack of evidence in favour of your suggestion indicates quite clearly that there is no strategy to ‘reach out’ to Unionists.

    I also asked why I, as a British Protestant, should vote SF…

    (You, as an Irish Catholic, should vote Alliance because it is the only party that has consistently stood up for genuine democracy through power-sharing, real equality of opportunity, and respect for the rule of law and non-violence – without these, you, I and everyone else will never get ‘saoirse’.)

  • ShayPaul

    So who does pay the piper ?

  • GavBelfast

    You’re determined the rest of us read that link aren’t you, Shay?

  • JD

    A telling thread. Nationalist vs republican, and the unionists stay silent about the substantive topic.

  • GavBelfast

    JD, you haven’t read every contribution then.

    Non-nationalist and non-republican posters have criticised Unionist politicians’ disinterest, inactivity, incompetence and hypocrisy on this issue.

    But Unionist politicians’ failings do not get Sinn Fein/IRA off the hook. Why should it?

    And is this some sort of contest anyway? No, on second thoughts, maybe we shouldn’t ask that.

  • JD

    Non-nationalist and non-republican posters have criticised Unionist politicians’ disinterest, inactivity, incompetence and hypocrisy on this issue.

    I didn’t say otherwise. I’m talking about the usual unionist posters. Non-nationalist and non-republican doesn’t necessarily equal unionist.

    I simply wanted to note how nationalism and republicanism would rather attack each other in this thread rather actually take the opportunity to find something to agree on.

    And is this some sort of contest anyway?

    Of course it is. Politics is a popularity contest.

  • Alan2

    Whilst I would agree with Mr McCord I would also say that alot of the media has ignored the fact that Mr McCord is also in Washington with the McCartneys. Ot at least that was the plan. All such paramilitary killings, criminality and punishment beatings need to stop.

  • ShayPaul

    Gav

    You’re determined the rest of us read that link aren’t you, Shay?

    What makes you so determined to ignore it ?

    The fact that it is a Canadian Judge ?

    The fact that Britain is covering up ?

    The fact that Finucane was murdered by the state ?

    The statelet will have to face the facts one day if it wishes to preserve what is left of its legitimacy.