Suspicions linger around Magennis's bar

David Vance has a short blog piece on the growing numbers of Sinn Fein members it seems were present in the bar. We know of three names and seven party members who’ve been suspended. Despite speculation to the contrary, if that is all who were present at the melee in which Brendan Devine was attacked, then the party may have successfully completed its damage limitation. However, whilst the details of that night remain less than transparent, suspicions will linger.

  • DaithiO

    A short blog piece is right, in fact Slugger uses more words to describe the piece than the piece actually contains.

    DV has received 2 comments so far and poo-poo’d each one as “fascinating insights” (I guess he’s being ironic)

    Well what fascinating insights does David think he’s bringing to this debate ? Seems like nothing more than suggestion and innuendo which consigns it to the same bottom drawer as the gutter press who are quick to condemn but slow to substantiate !

  • Mick Fealty

    I agree he’s not given you much to play with, but look for the ball Daithi!

  • DaithiO

    OK Mick, point taken, but I was at the “official” Ard Fheis. Does David play the ball or the men and women of Sinn Fein who aren’t criminals ?

    You can safely assume that there were a lot of Sinn Feiners there were no arrests.

    I am available to give a statement to whoever to confirm what I have stated here !

    Oh and I’m NOT a member of SF.

  • David Vance

    Daithio,

    1. It was a throwaway one liner – my contempt for the barbarians that killed McCartney does not require oodles of additional comment.

    2. I found the comments from the posters concerned very interesting as not everyone in the world knew that this bar was a Provo watering hole, frequented after hours by those lively students from the Holyland. Nor did I know that the owners of the bar saw no reason to close as a mark of respect when a customer is murdered. Perhaps in some circles these things are taken for granted – not in mine.

    3. The fact that so many Sinn Fein members drink in the same bar as IRA killers is..ahem..interesting. What is it they say about the lamb lying down with the lion?

    Finally, on ATW, I have been pleased to see a universal sense of DISGUST at the IRA and their Sinn Fein doppeldangers – from readers around the globe. Whilst the McCartney murder is no worse than any others committed by the IRA, it is good to see a universal condemnation of the guilty and their Brown-shirt apologists.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Perhaps David will spare a thought for the local reporter on his least favourite national paper, the Guardian. The lovely Angelique was escorted from Magennis’s for merely inquiring why the bar hadn’t closed on the day of McCartney’s funeral.

  • DaithiO

    OK David.

    So why is it that you and so many commentators think that republicans have a monopoly on despicable deeds ? Why is it that nobody has carried this story …
    ..

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/03/16/story193970.html

    ..

    There is a complete lack of balance and that’s a shame, especially when Sinn Fein has been an integral part of the peace process and indeed is still the largest pro-agreement party.

    Those who villify them for the deeds of rogue individuals kill any chance of peace.

  • Malachy

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0315/forsmarkl.html

    The one that gets me is the murder of this guy in a pub in the south and nobody even gets jail. Anyone got any stastistics on pub brawls in Ireland ?

    Politicians and media willing to highjack years of work for their own petty agendas. Sad.

  • David Vance

    DaithiO,

    For a start, it’s not possible to cover EVERY story. I fully support Mr. McCord’s view – but then again I’m not linked to any unionist party -they can answer for themselves.

    What you spectacularly seek to avoid is that it was not the DUP and UUP in Maginnis’s bar the night a bloody murder took place. It appears, as my original post suggests, that a REMARKABLE gathering of IRA and Sinn Fein people occurred and – oddly enough – somebody was murdered.

    Whether you like it or not – and I suspect you are by no means unique, the Sinn Fein bubble has bursted. All that hypocrisy and deceit, all the doubletalk and doubledealing, is exposed. For that the McCartney family deserve our thanks.

    No decent person can support IRA, UVF or UDA barbarity. Yet the “peace process” of which you speak has tried to conjure up the idea that somehow the bad guys had turned good. Of course they didn’t – they got more arrogant, more contemptous of human life – and that was manifest in Maginnis’s bar.

  • GavBelfast

    Malachy, perhaps if they hadn’t done the Northern Bank before it, Sinn Fein/IRA wouldn’t have taken as much flak over the McCartney killing.

    To do one job may have been a misfortune, to do two was downright carelessness.

    There’s still too much piffle about this being Sinn Fein/IRA’s “peace process”. It would have been a whole lot less necessary had they not been butchering people in a conflict they could not possibly win. They did most of the killing, just becuase they largely stopped doing so doesn’t imply guardianship or ownership of any process.

  • Malachy

    perhaps if they hadn’t done the Northern Bank before it, Sinn Fein/IRA wouldn’t have taken as much flak over the McCartney killing.

    In the case of the Northern Bank I don’t consider it just or democratic for policiticians and policemen to decide criminal guilt. You have accepted a guilty verdict without due process.

    I also for some reason think that this was in fact a pub brawl and not a sanctioned IRA crime – for that reason I do not see the justice in the media pillory of Gerry Adams.

    If Adams is responsible for that crime, then Tony Blair is responsible for prisoner abuse in Iraq. Blair doesn’t seem to be getting much flak for that.

  • Henry94

    What is it they say about the lamb lying down with the lion?

    The lion shall lie down with the lamb. But the lamb won’t get much sleep.

    Woody Allen

  • David Vance

    Henry94,

    It’s a great line – it was in my mind when I wrote the post but I was hoping no one else would bring it up. Well done!

  • GavBelfast

    Malachy, a lot of people feel that Adams and McGuinness has had us over a barrel, they are getting a bit of payback for their perceived con.

    Politics can be a tough business.

    Do they really deserve sympathy?

    I don’t think your analogy with Blair holds-up.

  • Malachy

    I don’t think your analogy with Blair holds-up.

    If Adams/Blair/Bush/Rumsfeld/Hoon is a “commander in chief” and his troops have carried out attacks/crimes/prisoner abuses against orders – who is responsible ?

    Adams is being held responsible for crimes but the others are not. What is the difference ? What is wrong with the analogy ?

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    David V, you’re plain wrong. Maginness’ isn’t a provo watering hole, unless I’m a provo. There are a lot of offices around that area as well as the courts, and I and quite a lot of people I know drink in there from time to time and I frequently see lawyers and barristers there in the early evening. Sure republicans drink in there, but they could easily enough drink in any other bar in the city. Maginness’ certainly beats the Trocadero.

    The Holylands are a long distance from Maginness’, I have never seen students in there. Your average Holylands student is drinking in Renshaws, Dukes, the Empire etc. They’re not going to go on a 40-minute round trip by foot down the Ormeau Rd. I think you’ve been decisively shown to have been talking nonsense.

  • David Vance

    Now then Roger,

    I think you will find that a contributor on ATW suggested that Maginnis’s is a Provo watering-hole, frequented by Holylands “students.” Whether you, or they, are right – I do not know.

    However I do that a REMARKABLE number of Sinn Fein election candidates JUST HAPPENED to be in a bar when bloodthirsty IRA barbarians murdered Mr. McCartney. Of course this could be just a coincidence – after all maybe the relationship between Sinn Fein and the IRA is more akin to that between Dogs and sh*t. What do you think?

  • johnhidd

    Who are the owners of the bar? Has any investigative reporter got that far?

    Was there a manager on duty and did he take any action to try to keep an orderly house?

    Will Belfast City Council take these circumstances into consideration when the licence comes up for renewal?

  • alex s

    I also for some reason think that this was in fact a pub brawl and not a sanctioned IRA crime – for that reason I do not see the justice in the media pillory of Gerry Adams.

    Posted by: Malachy at March 16, 2005 06:52 PM

    In a pub brawl noses get broken, throats don’t get cut, nor stomachs ripped open!

  • Malachy
  • Dec

    Perhaps a reason so many republicans were in the bar that night was that a bus returning people from the Bloody Sunday Commeration pulled up outside the bar. Just a thought. As for the ATWcontributor who seems to think Magennis’ was open for business the next day, I suggest that in the future he check his facts before posting nonsense like this (unusual for ATW, I agree). I regularly walk past the bar during the course of my day and it was sealed off by police whilst the bar underwent forensic examination. This occured for at least two days after the murder.

  • Davros

    Dec- shows how genuine the Bloody Sunday Commemorations are when they entail getting rat-arsed in a pub and slaughtering someone.
    Puts SF, and the SF run support groups*, crocodile tears for the dead of Bloody Sunday and all the other people they have down as Victims first-class into context.

    * Anybody see Newt This week on portadown news ? As he points out various organisations supposedly on the side of the oppressed have been silent. The problem obviously isn’t about ‘oppression’- it’s about ‘bad’ oppression… “their” oppression is different…..

  • cg

    “Dec- shows how genuine the Bloody Sunday Commemorations are when they entail getting rat-arsed in a pub and slaughtering someone”

    Davros you are out of order IMO

    99.9% of people attending the Bloody Sunday commeration didn’t do this.

    You are prepared to slate the entire Commeration and the vast majority of people who attend it based on the actions of a few people (SCUM) in a pub back in belfast after the commeration.

  • Davros

    Sorry CG – on this we’ll have to disagree. It reads as if there was a massive bender – busload of commemorators in bar with IRA men AND SF big-wigs ?
    This ‘solemn commemoration’ sounds as decent and dignified as the lowest of the low in a Loyalist Heartland drinking club on 12th July.

  • cg

    Davros

    The ‘solemn commemoration’ took place in Derry not Belfast.

  • Davros

    You are prepared to slate the entire Commeration and the vast majority of people who attend it based on the actions of a few people (SCUM) in a pub back in belfast after the commeration.

    Certainly – after all it’s how your side of the fence handle the 12th July, isn’t it ? 😉

    I have no problem with derry People , relatives etc participating in a solemn commemoration, but bussing in rent-a-mob piss-heads isn’t dignified IMO.

  • Dec

    Cg

    I think its got to the stage now where you’re probably better off ignoring some of the more desperate rants of the so-called experts.

  • ShayPaul

    Here here Dec.

    A good slugger rule after “play the ball not the man” is “let the idiot play with himself”.