NYPD union boss says PSNI are soldiers not police

Patrick Lynch, President of the New York’s 36,000-strong police union has told an audience including Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams that he doesn’t consider the PSNI a normal police force like the NYPD.

“I don’t consider them police officers. They are soldiers trying to keep our people down for standing up for what is right,” the Irish Times (subs needed) quotes him as saying to cheers from the audience.

Robert McCartney was not mentioned but Lynch said:

“Gerry, remember you are on the right track when all others are saying you are not, when the people you are fighting against are trying to get the masses to fight against you.”

However, in a sign of the times there were no collection buckets going around for Sinn Fein, ostensibly “to avoid it being made into a contentious issue and a distraction to the necessary work of rebuilding the peace process.”

  • peteb

    George

    Here’s a link to the article

    and the final paragraphs, including some quotes from those in the audience –

    The crowd was on their feet. Darlyne Lawson, an African-American union employee, was delighted. “For a mother like me, the bit about the laughter of the children was beautiful,” she said. She has not heard about events in Belfast, but believes Gerry Adams is an honest politician and can overcome his difficulties.

    Jeffrey Cullen, retired, was not so sold on the Sinn Féin message. Wearing a green jersey and green baseball cap, he has been reading Irish-American newspapers and is “not 100 per cent” in support of the republican movement.

    “There seems to be an older IRA and a younger IRA and the younger guys are causing all these problems. They are not controlled,” he said.

  • Malachy

    Congratulations for posting it at least.

    Gerry Adams is not hurting as much in the USA as bloggers, media and a**hole Irish politicians would have you believe.

    Please send us over Mr. Mc Dowell and see what kind of respect he will get.

  • barney

    I look forward to seeing the ‘good cop bad cop’ spin from our unionist bloggers.

  • Alan McDonald

    Good Cop, Bad Cop

    We Right, You Wrong

    Once you have bought into an ideology, any ideology, you have to defend it and to distinguish anything that doesn’t fit. I expect that Irish-Amrican cops in Philadelphia who support Sinn Fein are able to distinguish between the murder of Officer Faulkner by Mumia Abu-Jamal and the murder of Garda McCabe by the Castlerea Five.

  • spirit-level

    An irresponsible statement from an old dinasour

  • Malachy

    An irresponsible statement from an old dinasour

    Actually he’s not that old.

    Is it irresponsible because he does not swallow media and British govt. spin ?

    In the US, Police officers do not decide who is guilty of crime. Mr. Orde has done more damage to the reputation of the PSNI than the media and british-spin-politics would have you believe.

  • ricardo

    Hilarious to see Gerry gladhanding the NYPD, an organisation which has been denounced as one of the most corrupt and brutal police forces in the world by Amnesty International. If the PSNI had a human rights record like the NYPD, we would never hear the end of it, but when it suits him, Gerry’s morals suddenly slip away . . .

  • alex s

    The ‘shinners’ shouldn’t get to carried away with the views of Patrick Lynch, remember Ronnie Flanaghan once lectured at the FBI College and a Mr White, another ex-RUC/PSNI member is helping to rebuild policing in Iraq.

  • George

    Ricardo,
    I’m sure most Americans would be quite shocked to hear you call the NYPD one of the most brutal police forces in the world, considering the majority of Americans consider them heros.

    Which police forces are even more brutal and more corrupt in your view? On what recent evidence do you base this claim?

    It’s interesting that at the same time you remain silent on the Northern Irish police force, with its long history of involvement in torture, evidence manipulation, state murder of civilians etc. as if it was as harmless as a butterfly in summer.

    Amnesty International have had a lot to say about the work of the security forces in Northern Ireland, including the police although they were pretty quiet in the 70s.

    Would you care to cite some of that too when giving your report on the NYPD?

  • George

    oops, heroes.

  • Malachy

    Ronnie Flanaghan once lectured at the FBI College

    The FBI is not a police force, but in any case did Ronnie Flanagan ever practice announcing guilt or is that something that only came with the PSNI ? I’ll be waiting to see if Mr Orde gets an invitation to lecture.

    Mr White, another ex-RUC/PSNI member is helping to rebuild policing in Iraq.

    He should have good experience of how NOT to do it then.

  • GavBelfast

    The PSNI must be the most regulated police service in the whole of Europe.

    Lynch is plainly talking nonsense, republicans in denial must find chracters like this a Godsend, while privately chortling at them like the rest of us.

  • Malachy

    the NYPD, an organisation which has been denounced as one of the most corrupt and brutal police forces in the world by Amnesty International

    I would also appreciate some links/more info on this. I cannot find it on amnesty’s website.

    AFAIK the NYPD was investigated for racially motivated policing and profiling in the early nineties. Many police forces in the US are under some sort of watch for profiling.

    There was a couple of high-profile court cases.

    Otherwise as mentioned by another poster the NYPD is held in pretty high esteem in the US at least.

  • Jimmy Sands

    “There was a couple of high-profile court cases.”

    Not to mention an in-depth probe.

  • fair_deal

    Unreconstructed fool

  • maca

    Speaking of Amnesty, they once called for many RUC units to be disbanded because of their association with human rights violations.

  • jonty

    the good ol` nypd
    Amadou Diallo, an unarmed West African immigrant, living in New York City was fatally shot 41 times by NYPD cops looking for a rape suspect who fit Diallo’s description, he was black.
    In the trial of the four cops, the prosecution stressed that Diallo was unarmed, and that the police never shouted any warning. “[They] acted recklessly and with depraved indifference to Amadou Diallo’s life.”
    The medical examiner testified that Diallo was shot several times while falling down and lying on the ground and that one bullet entered his body through the underside of his right shoe. All four cops where acquitted of all charges.

    In March, 2000, Malcolm Ferguson, (23) was shot in the head after running into his apartment building after being confronted by a team of six undercover NYPD cops. Ferguson had been arrested nine times before for relatively minor, non-violent offenses, the police probably knew him and his behavior, which had always been non-violent, he had never even been arrested for carrying a weapon. His reaction, to run away, may have been out of fear for his life. In March, ’99, Ferguson was arrested for selling marijuana, during the arrest, the police broke Ferguson’s thumb by handcuffing it backward against his wrist and then denied him medical treatment for many hours. Only after an EMS worker noticed his serious injury was he taken to a hospital. Ferguson had filed a law suit against the police for this treatment, which Ferguson’s mother and attorney believe may have been a motivating factor in his shooting. Ironically, Ferguson’s most recent arrest had been for protesting the acquittal of the cops who killed Amadou Diallo who lived just two blocks from Ferguson.

  • Mario

    This from a police force that shoots people in the middle of the night for going for their lighter (Amadou Diallo) , sodomize a suspect in the bathroom with their night sticks ( Haitian immigrant Abner Louima), shoot young african americans (see articles through out the 90’s) in bedford stuyvesant, if you want to see the complaints, im sure the NYPD has lists of police brutality cases, and lets not forget the high profile corruption trials of the 70’s which Sidney Lummet made famous in Serpico and the police corruption trials of the early 90s? Not enough? How about the recent trial of the Mafia hit men who were decorated NYPD cops. Need proof of the racial profiling that the NYPD engages in? Please, just got to the NYPD or the American ACLU. Yes, they also have great officers who do great work, but how can they preach the PSNI? The RUC? Yes, I agree that was a military force with an agenda. But the PSNI seems to be a professional police force. THe NYPD seems to have their problems with corruption. Maybe not as bad as Los Angeles or here in Argentina, but it seems hypocrital for them to be calling the PSNI names. According to Malachy, the police dont judge, of course, they dont, they shoot (41 times) as in the case of Dialo.

    A bad joke:

    NYPD officer: Stop or Ill shoot!!
    PSNI officer: Stop or, Ill yell stop again!!

  • aquifer

    I say he’s a fireman

  • Malachy

    the police dont judge, of course, they dont, they shoot (41 times) as in the case of Dialo.

    There are about 40,000 police officers in the NYPD. You use one case to lay judgement on these.

    Check out the NYPD most wanted. And pay a visit to New York someday including bedford stuyvesant. Maybe you will revise your opinion of the NYPD.

    In the meantime I’m still waiting for someone to point me to where Amnesty called the NYPD one of the most corrupt and brutal police forces in the world I have not been able to locate that.

  • Jimmy Sands

    Coincidentally I was there last week. On the flight home another visiting couple were stating that their main impression of the city had been of the police, and in particular how aggressive and unpleasant they were. I believe they were staying some distance from Bedford Stuyvesant.

  • SeamusG

    Patrick Lynch is what Stalin called “a useful idiot”.

  • Frankie

    Malachy
    Hopefully this is what your looking for
    http://www.rightsforall.amnesty.org/info/report/r03.htm

  • TroubledTimes

    Its interesting to see the Sinn Fein leader attend policing events in America, he doesnt seem to attend many on the island of Ireland. An Ireland of Equals? Dont make me laugh!
    The laughter of our children will come around when the likes of the IRA and the rest of the paramilitary scumbags piss off!
    I guarantee everybody that the IRA wont do a single thing whilst the SF leadership are in America….hmmmmm…..I wonder why???

  • maca

    “I guarantee everybody that the IRA wont do a single thing whilst the SF leadership are in America….hmmmmm…..I wonder why???”

    Why?

  • Alan2

    “Mr. Orde has done more damage to the reputation of the PSNI than the media and british-spin-politics would have you believe.”

    Hardly. Mr Orde repeated in public what he stated to the Policing Board…..which was set up at the behest of Sinn Fein and Nationalists along with the local DPP and the Police Ombudsman to ensure accountability and as such made the PSNI the most accountable police force in the world. The Human Rights Commission recently praised the work of the new PSNI.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    “There are about 40,000 police officers in the NYPD. You use one case to lay judgement on these.”

    Well Malachy, it didn’t take too long to get you apologizing for the NYPD. It’s a different matter when it’s on your own doorstep isn’t it ? Oh look – there’s the “bad apples in the barrel” argument which republicans consistently refuse to accept applies to the PSNI. I wonder if Lynch is aware that the IRA shoot dead Garda officers too, and the man he was speaking highly of is presently trying to get some cop killers released from jail ?

    George, the PSNI (and RUC) are regarded as heroes in some parts of NI as well. That argument seems rather specious.

  • ricardo

    George,

    You seem to think that my view of the NYPD is based on opinion, not fact. Google Amnesty International and NYPD and you will find a litany of human rights abuses to choose from.

  • mucher

    As i have already said on another site, Pat Lynch is probably one of thse Orish Americans whose grannies told them tall tale about fleeing Irelnd with coins sewed in their petticoats during the twenties. His knowledge of Ireland comes from the llikes of Adams and old provos in the clubs and bars of NY.
    Someone should invite him over to see the real Ireland and meet some real Irish people, as opposed to the Hollywood Orish he obviously mixes with.

  • George

    Ricardo,
    I see you are quoting instances from the 1990s about the NYPD.

    I can quote instances of human rights abuses by the Northern Irish police in the 1990s, from collusion to cover up murder right on down to plain old standing by as a Catholic gets kicked to death by a loyalist mob.

    You said that the NYPD ARE one of the most corrupt and brutal police forces in the world, not WERE.

    Any reports from this decade to back up such a claim?

  • ricardo

    ‘Ricardo,
    I see you are quoting instances from the 1990s about the NYPD’

    Wrong again George. I haven’t quoted any instances at all.

    Getting me confused with someone else I think.

  • George

    Ok Ricardo,
    fair enough.

    But, the second half holds.
    You said that the NYPD ARE one of the most corrupt and brutal police forces in the world, not WERE.

    Any reports from this decade to back up such a claim?

  • Mike

    mucher –

    “As i have already said on another site, Pat Lynch is probably one of thse Orish Americans whose grannies told them tall tale about fleeing Irelnd with coins sewed in their petticoats during the twenties. His knowledge of Ireland comes from the llikes of Adams and old provos in the clubs and bars of NY. “

    I would think that you’re spot on. Latest in a long line of drivel from ill-informed Irish-Americans.

    Acutally , what you say reminds me of Mario Biaggi, former US senator who made it his mission to target the RUC after being “told all about Ireland” by an Irish-American colleague when he was in the NYPD.

    (One interesting fact about Biaggi’s police career is that he had the highest number of kills in the history of the NYPD. Talk about hypocrisy.)

  • Alan McDonald

    Mike,

    Biaggi was actually a member of the US House of Representatives (the lower house) rather than the Senate (upper house).

  • Mike

    I stand corrected, thanks Alan.

  • mucher

    Cheers Mike!

    What happens to Irish people when they become Irish Americans? Do they suddenly lose all their independent thought process and just become sterotypes? Or is it that we only hear from that sort of Irish American. The ordinary, normal, average Irish American justs gets on with living like the rest of us instead of living in the past.

  • Alan McDonald

    mucher,

    There are at least two flavors of Irish Americans: those who wre born in Ireland (like myself) and came to the USA, and those who have Irish ancestors. The former group keep close ties with “the Ould Sod” and pay attention to what is happening today. The latter group get their info from whoever they are listening to at the moment.

    How’s that for a totally unbiased observation?

  • George

    Why is it that Patrick Lynch is respected by the media and the public until he happens to criticise the PSNI, when all of a sudden some try and portray him as a gullible fool rather than questioning whether he has a point?

    Brian Feeney, formerly of the SDLP, said over the weekend that “a significant number of people who live in the North of Ireland do not accept the legitimacy of the state, and never have. And for that reason, have never felt they could go to the security forces or the police service….that there has never been a police service they could give any allegiance to.”

    Is Feeney just another gullible fool. Who was he listening to when he made this statement?

    Ricardo,
    I assume you can’t find any up to date report, slamming the NYPD for being one of the most corrupt and brutal police forces in the world so would it be safe to say we can regard that comment as total hearsay, made without foundation?

  • Christopher Stalford

    What a moron! Sinn Fein really does a great job cultivating such pillocks!

  • Alan McDonald

    George,

    RE your comment Why is it that Patrick Lynch is respected by the media and the public until he happens to criticise the PSNI.

    I couldn’t find any references to Patrick Lynch (respectful or otherwise) in the media other than comments he made as head of the NY Police union. In case you are not aware, unions are not respected in the US, public sector unions in particular. This has been true ever since the (US) Republican party under Ronald Reagan began the systematic destruction of trade unionism in the 1970’s. I believe Margaret Thatcher did the same in the UK.

  • Alan McDonald

    “1970’s” should have been 1980’s.

  • maca

    What’s with the insults mucher & mike? Have ye nothing of value to say? You may not like Irish-Americans but they are entitled to their opinion too and should be afforded the same respect as anyone.

  • George

    Alan McDonald,
    as the man who has had to pick up many of the broken NYPD pieces post 9/11 I believe Lynch is a little more respected than your average union figure stateside.

    Could be wrong and maybe all union figures are disrespected in the States but at the moment that is my view.

    Fortunately, there has always been a sea (physical as well as metaphorical) between Thatcher and myself and anyway back in the 80s we in Ireland would have given our eye teeth just to have had people in employment to sack, never mind curbing their rights.

  • Mario

    Does the NYPD have civilian review panels, with community members from the South Bronx, Red Hook Brooklyn, Washington Heights, Bedford Stuyvesant, Brownsville, and all the other communities that experience racial profiling and police brutality? Having visited the Big Apple and those communities, the answer is NO.

    Malachy- If you see my post you will note that I not only pointed out to the Dialo case, but the Haitain case as well. Lets not forget that he was sodomized by 4 officers while the precint comamnders and all the other officers covered it up. There is a problem in the NYPD with the blue wall of silence.

    I never said that the whole force is corrupt and that there are not fine officers who do great work.

    But to point at the PSNI as a military corrupt force is just not accurate.

    They have civilian panels, and it is not their fault that “some” Nationalists refuse to participate in them, they recruit and reach out. They try to diversify and address sectarianism in some members of their force. I think they have recently been called one of the better police forces in Europe.

    I think you are thinking of the old RUC, which was clearly a military and sectarian police force with a clear agenda and a history of brutality.

    I see nothing that says the PSNI is the same force.

  • Alan McDonald

    George,

    I have long wondered what position the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU) takes on the GFA, etc. Any insights?

  • Malachy

    I see nothing that says the PSNI is the same force.

    Maybe you missed the recent bit about Hugh Orde and the bank robbery ? Does the Chief of Police at the NYPD or any other US police force proclaim guilt without evidence and a trial ?

  • Mario

    Malachy that does not prove anything, other than Orde is playing politics. The chief of police in NY never plays politics? He is the first one to come out in defence of his officers when they shoot a minority, without an investigation, they played politics with Giuliani and were basically his mouth pieces.

    This does not prove your accusation that the PSNI is a repressive military police force the same as The old RUC.

    If anything the PSNI has more civilian input than the NYPD.

    The NYPD is not a corrupt force, that is not what Im saying, but they are, from what I see of them less civilian friendly than the PSNI.

    You have to stop thinking RUC. They are gone. Which is a good thing. The PSNI needs more support and they welcome it.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    “Is Feeney just another gullible fool. Who was he listening to when he made this statement?”

    Well you tell me George. Feeney believes the IRA were behind the bank robbery.

    Regarding Feeney’s point on the police, he seems to be saying that there cannot be a police service within the NI state which a significant number of nationalists can support. Why will Gerry Adams not say that, instead of repeating the implication that he will support a sufficiently reformed service ?

  • ShayPaul

    Roger

    How about :

    Because he will support a sufficiently reformed service ?

    Believe it or not, it is in everyone’s interest to push that hypothesis and to push Gerry with it.

  • WindsorRocker

    And you wonder why a lot of PSNI/RUC Officers in late 2001 opted not to contribute to a collection for the NYPD in the aftermath of 9/11?

    For those who don’t know the presence of the NYPD band at the funeral of at least one hunger striker might have something to do with it!

  • Mario

    Well, this is interesiting. Seems that the police officer who shot a teen in cold blood and later claimed that his gun discharged accidentally into the teen’s chest has gotten a reward: he will notw be working with the police union and will be the first on the scene when cops shoot civilians. never mind that this officer is still under investigation for the shooting of the inocent team who had never been in trouble with the law. this is the organization that is critical of the PSNI?

    hyperlink

  • Mario

    I give up. Here is the link to the story.

    http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0512,hunter,62329,5.html

  • Visioner

    Obviously this guy has never been to N.I. He has been reading too much Irish Republican propaganda/litrature. Including Jimmy Sands’ dirty books.

    And how are the police in the U.S. different from the PSNI?

    The U.S. police usually go in full guns blazing. Where the police in N.I. can hardly use feathers without being moaned at.

    You gotta hand it to the Shinners though. Even when the whole democratic world is against them they always look up.

    BTW – How much did they pay this guy to say these things in their hour of need? Cos every thing that has been said recently has been bad news for them. Even their ex-supporters in the U.S. such as Ted Kennedy have come out against them. He must of had a wake up call or something. Well better late than never I suppose.

    Quote: “Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.”

    Evil laughter?

  • George

    Alan,
    there was all-party consensus in Ireland for the GFA, that included the trade unions, which is why in the Republic it was a 95% yes vote.

    The ICTU urged a “yes vote for peace”.