UUP to break historic Orange link

The Orange Order is about to end its 100 year link with the Ulster Unionist Council, the body which set up and (notionally at least) governs the UUP this Saturday.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    This is a good thing, as the Ulster Unionist Party can no longer claim to be the voice of Unionism.

    I have always felt that the Orange Order should not have a bias towards any one strand of Unionism / Loyalism.

    The UUP, DUP, UKUP, UPRG and PUP are all committed to maintaining the Union, so should all be treated as equals by the Loyal Orders.

  • lo_rre

    “The UUP, DUP, UKUP, UPRG and PUP are all committed to maintaining the Union, so should all be treated as equals by the Loyal Orders.”

    I wonder willthe DUP allow just *ONE* orange delegate (Not 120) to sit on their yearly council meetings, when the 100 year orange link with the UUP is finally broken?

    Lorre

  • lo_rre

    “The UUP, DUP, UKUP, UPRG and PUP are all committed to maintaining the Union, so should all be treated as equals by the Loyal Orders.”

    I wonder will the DUP allow just *ONE* orange delegate (Not 120) to sit on their yearly council meetings, when the 100 year orange link with the UUP is finally broken?

    Lorre

  • Concerned Loyalist

    Lorre,
    I don’t understand the point you are trying to make. Please set me straight

  • Michael Shilliday

    Your headline is back to front. Its the Orange breaking the UUP link.

  • lo_rre

    Concerned Loyalist,

    If you dont understand the history of the connection between the Orange Order & the delegates it had on the UUP Council plus the reasons for the past 10 years of internal conflict within the UUP over this link, then it would be hard for me to explain.

    Lorre

  • aquifer

    Great news for the UUP and the Union and NI generally. Any reasons given?

    UUP not intransigent enough? Big Ian’s lot a better bet?

  • lo_rre

    “Big Ian’s lot a better bet?”

    Aquifer,

    The horse you put your money on in the “Unionist Stakes” called “Big Ian’s Autocracy”, is a bad bet. “David’s Democracy” may be in third place at present but once “Orange link” is pulled up and out of the race “Davids Democracy” will fly past the post by about three lengths and be declared the *WINNER*

    Lorre

  • Christopher Stalford

    “I wonder willthe DUP allow just *ONE* orange delegate (Not 120) to sit on their yearly council meetings, when the 100 year orange link with the UUP is finally broken?”

    Why would the Orange Order want to have delegates on the DUP executive? The whole point of breaking the link with the UUP is so that no political party can attempt to claim ownership of the Orange Institution. I welcome this decision. It is long overdue.

    BTW, those Trimble-groupies on here who think that by breaking the link, an extra 100,000 votes are simply going to materialise for the UUP would be well advised to think again.

    It’s not the OO thats to blame for the unpopularity of the Ulster Unionist Party. The answer to that particular question can be found by looking a lot closer to home.

  • jonty

    Chris why wont you and youre party rule out any further negotiations that include sinn fein until the IRA have disbanded and diarmed?

  • davidbrew

    jonty
    why does your party rule out further negotiations that include sinn fein until the IRA have disbanded and disarmed…..when everyone knows that they only measn it until after May 6th, and that they’ve done it so many times in the past that it’s a cynical ploy from a party drifting without direction. You’d have thought the hubris in trimble would have made him want to go out with a bang, not a whimper. Obviously not

  • davidbrew

    .. oh, and mick should correct the thread heading. We’re dumping the UUP, not the other way round. And if you think the noise you hear is that of a hundred thousand lawnmowers carrying garden centre prods to Cunningham House, you’re sadly mistaken lorre.It’s a collective yawn of boredom from the Unionist electorate at the demise of an irrelevant old neighbour who’s been very ill for a long time, and who’s become a burden that secretly most people are glad to see the back of-the UUC breathes its last on Saturday .

  • lo_rre

    “Why would the Orange Order want to have delegates on the DUP executive?”

    Good point Chris, why should any outside organisation have delegates on any political party’s executive.in the 21’s century? So why did the Orange Order have delegates on the UUP executive ? Do you think they were forced against their will because the UUP wanted to claim ownership? Thats a joke. Its been the total reverse in the last century. the OO claimed ownership of the UUP. In the old stormont parliament 38 out of the 46 UUP MP’s were all Orangemen.

    Lorre

  • slug9987

    Is this OO-UUP link well known about by the man on the street in NI?

  • Moses

    Concerned Loyalist,

    Correction. The UPRG and PUP are scum. Just another terrorist affiliated party.

  • lo_rre

    Breaking Links by Roy Garland 14 March 2005. Irish News 14-3-2005

    The Orange Order has finally broken its institutional link with the Ulster Unionist Party and this is to be warmly welcomed. There have always been members of other political parties in the Orange Order including members of the old Northern Ireland Labour Party but recently fears have increased that the DUP could unduly influence Orange delegates to the Unionist Council for selfish ends.

    The Independent Orange Order was formed at the start of last century in protest against the political link lest politicians manipulate the Order for private gain. For a time Independents became quite radical with some members wanting accommodation with nationalists and supporting Home Rule. Latterly it has been widely assumed that Ian Paisley is a member of the Independents because he is a frequent speaker on their Twelfth platforms. His close association seems to conflict with the tradition that they be separate from political parties but this doesn’t worry members of the tiny Independent Order. They seek to justify having Paisley on their platforms because of his apparently uncompromising religious role. The ‘sash’ that Ian Paisley wears is an Apprentice Boys one although I seem to recall him also adorning the red, white and blue collaret of the Ulster Protestant Volunteers.

    The question now is, how will the parting of the ways affect the Orange Order and the UUP after 100 years of a sometimes rocky relationship? Whatever the immediate effects it was essential they part company to enable the UUP to open doors to greater participation of Catholics, Hindus, atheists and whatever.

    There is a parallel between breaking the link and relinquishing the relationship between the Irish state and the ‘special position’ accorded to the Roman Catholic Church in the Irish constitution up to the early 1970s. Breaking that link was helpful to both church and state. It reduced possibilities of politicians manipulating the church and vice versa and it deflected criticism.

    Breaking the Orange link means the UUP can more easily seek to promote pluralism. The Orange Order however faces more serious problems. It has to decide if it is religious, cultural, community or political or some combination of these. If radical reform doesn’t follow it could end up tearing itself apart although change will bring its own problems. If the Order adopted the kind of fundamentalism now seemingly in decline within the DUP, it could destroy itself but if it were to become more open and charitable it might have a better future.

    A cultural and community oriented Orange Order might seem incongruous to many but the Orange has been trying to enhance a humanitarian side that was nearly crushed by adopting lost causes like parades in contentious areas. Orange people must reverse the old profile by dropping the negative emphasis on opposing Rome and instead promote the welfare of their fellowmen in keeping with a more charitable emphasis. In line with this the Orange has recently promoted a more festive approach to celebrations and has tried to reach out to the wider community. Recent reports say Orangemen have welcomed members of the Hindu community and provided them with refreshments in a Belfast Orange Hall.

    According to the official qualification of an Orangeman, his motives should include, ‘the glory of God and the welfare of man, the honour of his Sovereign, and the good of his country’. Few would quarrel with this although loyalty remains conditional on the sovereign being Protestant and there is a ban on members attending Catholic religious services or marrying Catholics. The latter, I understand, was not part of the original qualifications and should be dropped in the interests of the wider good.

    It is too much to ask that they initiate a radical reformation reshaping the Orange Institution into some approaching a healing institution? The Order has international, multi-cultural and Irish-British dimensions having members in many other parts of the world including Africa. Practical support for such regions could be fostered by the Order. Orangemen should in any case, seek to avoid at all costs being caught up again in the narrow maelstrom of Ulster politics. This straight jacket is one from which we all must find release and freedom.

  • Alan2

    For anyone interested the News Letter`s UUP – 100 years supplement is online in pdf format
    here

  • Moderate Unionist

    david brew
    I think we should all be concerned about the distinct lack of interest in politics by a sizeable number of moderate unionists. You never know who might be the largest party in Northern Ireland one day.

    You are in danger of winning the battle and losing the war.

  • Clady Cowboy

    Orangeism, surely a bit of a lunatic pastime and nothing to do with political parties…

  • PaddyCanuck

    There leader is an Orangeman, how many other members are orangemen, the historic link may be broken, but they are still drenched in orangeism.

  • Alan2

    Did you know several Canadian Prime Ministers and also Prime Ministers of Newfoundland were Orangemen?

  • lo_rre

    “There leader is an Orangeman, how many other members are orangemen, the historic link may be broken, but they are still drenched in orangeism.”

    Paddy, pot calling bigotry kettle black.

    “There leader is a Catholic, how many other SF members are Catholic, the (political) historic link may be broken, but they are still drenched in Catholicism.

    Lorre

  • davidbrew

    “I think we should all be concerned about the distinct lack of interest in politics by a sizeable number of moderate unionists. You never know who might be the largest party in Northern Ireland one day.” MU

    my point precisely MU. I’m obviously not a moderate- in the terms I imagine you might define it, and I believe that more committed base which sustained Unionism for decades has now gone irrevocably to the DUP.

    The moderate vaguely pro-Union person, of whatever religion, and whether a frequenter of garden centres or not, has to be the hunting ground for new UPNI- Trimble’s UUP/ But it will be difficult to activate a contituency that has not voted for decades in the contect of increasing voter apathy.

    And when you see the likes of Michael McGimpsey talking tough and David McNasty talking up his orange credentials as if they’re in an auction for protestant ( as distinct from Unionist) approval then you realise that they’re simply not up to the job.

    They’re clinging hopelessly to the possibility that the currently active Unionist electorate will reward them for pointing out that the DUP, like all political parties in NI( anywhere?), has been unable to deliver 100% of their objectives since the last election. But all they do is remind the voters who got them into the mess in the first place. that’s right- the UUP, which is still proud of having done it!

    Real courageous leadership would be to embrace all of the outworkings of the GFA as Trimble’s handiwork, and say ” This is the new Union for everyone, and if you don’t like it, tough” Why pretend things like the name of the Police or cross border bodies traking unaccountable decisions matter? It doesn’t bother the voters you’re chasing, and you’d be free of the burden of criticising things you signed up to. And what if David Ford accused you of being soft on the Union? But of course the real pain would be to eschew sectarianism, which still is the comfort blanket for too many Ulster Unionists when they see their Agreement rewarding nationalists.

    Wouldn’t it be a fine example for those voters if David Trimble now resigned from the Orange Order and stopped pretending it meant something to him? Don’t hold your breath.

    And while we’re talking about baggage, canadianShinner-
    your own post slightly altered ( and the appalling grammar corrected) might cause you some thought.
    Your leader is an IRA man.How many other members are IRA men? That historic link has not been broken, and they are still drenched in the blood of hundreds of victims.
    Smug judgmentalism doesn’t work when your moral compass is so distorted.

  • Moderate Unionist

    David Brew
    Many Unionist voters are fed up with the lack of progress. Will the DUP seek a genuine accomodation with Roman Catholics to build a pluaristic society? Do you think that Westminster wants to maintain the Union? Do you think that Republic would welcome us with open arms? What is the DUP vision for the future?

  • jimmy

    Congrats to the IRA. I applaud their courageous decision and hope for the day that the British government leaves Ireland to eb ruled by the people of Ireland.

    The IRA was not responsible for all the deaths. Dont forget the murderous British Army and loyalist thugs who killed for pleasure.