Criminalisation of Sinn Fein and the IRA?

With the cold war raging between Sinn Fein and emm, everyone else, it’s hard to find the longer view on all of this. But perhaps that’s what it’s like in moments of genuine political flux. The IRA is certainly not the only organisation at the moment in the virtual dock. But according to Robert McCartney’s sisters their problems are self inflicted. It begs the question, is the criminalisation of Sinn Fein and the IRA a result of a concerted political campaign, or is it a case of the movement beleiving itself above the law?

  • barney

    Nobody is in the dock, that’s the problem. The PSNI can’t be coaxed to question Robert McCartney’s killers and The Red Hand Defenders are struggling to get themselves arrested. This must be Europe’s most incompetent police force. Can’t be long before the Daily Telegraph russels up another attack on the police ombudsman for cramping their style.

  • Mick Fealty

    Interesting take on recent events:

    “The PSNI can’t be coaxed to question Robert McCartney’s killers”.

  • barney

    “Interesting take on recent events:

    “The PSNI can’t be coaxed to question Robert McCartney’s killers”.”

    Have they questioned them? If not, what do you think would coax them to do so?

  • PaddyCanuck

    Something must have convinced Mr.Order the killers were out of the country, maybe he assumed that they must be, because for what other reason would his officers not have arrested and questioned all those involved…

    Maybe he should read the papers, and when is he going to catch on that the money lifted by the Gards in the south has nothing to do with the Norn BAnk. Does he think the Garda cannot read serial numbers?

    This is noithing less than a concerted campaign, but it will back fire, because the Nationalist\Republican electorate ahas already grown tired of it. Back to the drawing board lads….

  • Mick Fealty

    I was struck by the comment, because it implies someone has been coaxing them. It would be interesting to hear who that might have been!

  • barney

    You may not have noticed Mick but the McCartney’s have been trying to get the PSNI involved for some time now.

  • paddyjoe

    regarding the criminalisation of the rebulican movement, i have heard Gerry Kelly Gerry Adams alex Maskey, all say they would like to see the men who killed Robert Mc Cartney in the dock. Is this a dock of a diplock court? the end tool in the british attempt to criminalise the republican movement in the 70’s? Sinn Fein cannot say they have no faith in the PNSI yet say the have faith in a british court.

  • barney


    SF didn’t say they have faith in either the PSNI or the Courts. The McCatneys do though and they have asked for help. Should SF reject their request?

  • barney


    SF didn’t say they have faith in either the PSNI or the Courts. But the McCartneys do and they have asked for help. Should SF reject their request?

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Barney, so far 8 people have been arrested and questioned by the PSNI in connection with the murder. Six of those, as you may have forgotten, were questioned in the days immediately following the murder. The PSNI aren’t saying who they are, but I think it’s pretty reasonable to say that the people questioned have mostly been people who were present during the murder since they were arrested rather than simply asked to make a statement. So can you explain what this allegation that the PSNI is refusing to question people is all about ? Why are you spreading disinformation ?

    It sounds to me a bit like you’re trying to use the fact that people refuse to give themselves up (as both the IRA and SF have publicly requested) is something to do with the PSNI, is that right ?

  • Davros

    I remember reading that there was doubts about the RHC claim – no code word was used.

  • PaddyCanuck

    Davros, I see that you are often quick to defend the reputation of loyalist paramilitaries, whether it is defending them against accusations of being indiscriminate, or seeking to dispute allegations that they were involved in a murder in North Belfast.

    My question is:

    Is this just a streak of pedantism, or does it reveal something more sinister in your nature?

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    The RHC used no codeword and the “admission” was dismissed by the family of the guy who died – I assume they are not loyalist apologists. An article in one of the newspapers last week reported that the family were suspicious that the admission was faked by the IRA who they believe were behind the death.

    Paddy, there’s nothing vaguely questionable about Davros pointing out that the RHC claim is questionable. If someone phoned in a claim for the bank robbery and said they were from the IRA with no codeword, you would probably question that and you’d be absolutely right.

    (BTW, for the sake of balance I might point out that I was threatened once by a thug once claiming to be from the UDA. )

  • Davros

    I am indeed a pedant. As you are American I’ll remind you that precision isn’t a bad thing 🙂

    As regards the discriminacy issue – it seemed important to me to point out that it’s not sensible to claim an organisation is targetting RCs and at the same time claim that it is indiscriminate in choosing it’s victims! That in no way implied any support for them.

    I’ll question the accuracy of anything that looks dodgy. So I’m not trying to defend terrorists – others can decide if that charge is better directed at you.

  • PaddyCanuck

    “any taig will do” does that not suggest a degree of indiscrimination.

    As I said in a previous post they were only indiscriminate when not directed by thier masters in the British security forces.

  • aquifer

    When SFIRA complain about human rights abuses they are writing big cheques on an account they paid little into. Illegal collusion and targetting was their rule not the exception.

  • Davros

    Lindy McDowell puts the blame where it belongs:

    Stench of blood finally putting people off Sinn Fein sales pitch

    And Michael McDowell is just as blunt :

    “He said that murder, torture and mutilation were the stock-in trade of the Provisional movement.

    But he warned that people shouldn’t be fooled that the IRA is responsible for the thuggery and criminality and that Sinn Féin “is some separate democratic chrysalis seeking to break out of a paramilitary cocoon and to become an exclusively peaceful and democratic butterfly”. “

    [my emphases]

  • Concerned Loyalist

    I am confused. I am no 100 per cent sure of the facts of this incident – can someone please fill me in?
    Barney sites the Red Hand Defenders, but Davros and Roger W. mention the Red Hand Commando?
    The R.H.D. is not an organisation but a cover name for maverick elements of the LVF and formerly Johnny Adair’s 2nd Battalion C/Coy. of the West Belfast UFF.
    The R.H.C. are a relatively small loyalist paramilitary organisation formed in 1972, and throughout it’s history has had close links to the UVF, but has always retained it’s own command structure.
    As I’ve highlighted, they are two different entities – which is alledged to have been involved?

  • Concerned Loyalist

    Is Paddy Canuck an American? I was of the belief that the canuck was a bird native to their Northern neighbours, Canada?

  • lo_rre

    The eight who were arrested were released as they told the PSNI, they never saw anything because they were all in the toilet at the same time.


  • J Kelly

    The one thing that has intrigued me about this McCartney case is where is the guy Devine and the other friend who were with Robert Mc Cartney. If one or both of these come forward no one else is required. Open and shut case. They were at the two different scenes in the bar and outside. Before you start about intimidation and all, its my opinion that these guys would probably be the safest people in Ireland with all the focus that is on this case.