Pressure brings (some) results

RTÉ is reporting that there has been an IRA statement in which they state that, after “an investigation”, the three individuals responsible for the murder of Robert McCartney have been dismissed from the organisation. But, so far, only one individual has, as the BBC reports “made a statement to his solicitor”. Timing, eh? No-one, at this time, is in custody, or, has been charged.

  • PaddyCanuck

    Here is the fullest statement which I have been able to gleam from various newssites

    “The IRA leadership along with the leadership of the Belfast command initiated disciplinary proceedings through Court Martial. This was in accordance with IRA standing orders.

    These proceedings were directed only against IRA volunteers.

    The outcome of the Courts Martial includes the dismissal of three volunteers, two of whom were high-ranking volunteers.

    One of these volunteers had already gone to a solicitor immediately after the incident to make a statement of his actions on that night.

    The other two were advised in the strongest terms possible to come forward and to take responsibility for their actions as the McCartney family have asked.

    It added: Any intimidation or threats in the name of the IRA or otherwise to any person who wishes to help the McCartney family will not be tolerated.”

    It seems pretty clear and unequivical.

    Pete, could you clarify your “timing eh”, remark?

    I also think it will go along way to satisfying the family, especially if convictions are forthcoming.

    For those who will undoubtedley criticise the time it took to reach this stage, I would ask that you reflect that Finucanes, Conlons, and many others have had to wait much longer.

    I think this is a positive development, and hopefully one of many in the forthcoming months.

  • PaddyCanuck

    More from statement:

    “The internal disciplinary steps taken by the IRA are a matter for the IRA. They are not intended to be, nor should they be seen as, a substitute for the requests of the McCartney family.

    “IRA volunteers fully understand that they are bound by rules and regulations and a code of conduct.

    “There will be no tolerance of anyone who steps outside of these rules, regulations or code.

    “Anyone who brings the IRA into disrepute will be held accountable.”

  • Sluggerite

    Adams’ “manslaughter” comments take on a whole new meaning. A guilty plea would spare a public trial and further embarassment.

  • peteb

    I would suggest that my post, and comment, is already clear about what I think of this statement.

  • PaddyCanuck

    You may of course suggest that Pete, but I am still not clear what exactly you mean. Your disdain is of course obvious.

  • Jimmy Sands


    What do you propose the solicitor does whith the statement he’s been given?

    I thought there were supposed to be 14 members involved in the pub, to say nothing of those involved in the cover up afterwards. Did they draw straws here?

    Bring the IRA into disrepute? How?

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Paddy, of course there’s disdain. The IRA have only bothered to do this because it is politically expedient for them to do so. It has happened only because the family were courageous enough to take a public stand against them. If the IRA had been successful in intimidating them into silence the murder would have been completely forgotten about by now. Furthermore there were more than three individuals involved in the crime and subsequent cover-up, and the whole thing does suggest that the IRA are moving to scapegoat some people to protect the greater number of it’s volunteers.

    I think the family made clear that any action taken by the IRA will not qualify as justice, then implication being that the people involved need to be tried and sent to jail. The IRA’s statement does seem to at least recognise that so we shall see. What I am concerned about at this point is if the family release a statement suggesting that the IRA statement is unsatisfactory. What I suspect we will then see is a vilification campaign from the republicans accusing the family of being politically motivated into rejecting the IRA’s “generous” justice allowances.

    The interesting thing about this is I suspect this is the first time the IRA have publicly talked about their standing orders or an internal “courts martial” ?

  • Davros

    Looks like Sam Beckett’s comments about patriots in First Love (1970) also applies to IRA statements. “faces on fire. Elysium of the roofless.”

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    From RTE :

    “[Gerry Adams] said the republican movement is one of the groups most outraged by the murder of Mr McCartney.”

    This man is starting to really get my goat. The republican movement covered up the crime and intimidated witnesses. It started out by denying that it was anything to do with the murder, and people on this very board started trying to cast aspersions over the victim’s character. Then it moved on to the witness intimidation and the obstruction via incited riots of police searching houses in connection with the murder, and Alex Maskey who *must* have known what was going on at the time was the man out condemning the harrassment of republicans by the police. Now Adams is telling us that the crime has outraged republicans. Why does he think he can get away with such barefaced lies ?

  • PaddyCanuck

    We will wait to see what the family says.

    The Republican movement outside the area and the leadership had nothing to do with this murder. They have moved effectively to sanction those “IRA members” involved, and they have reacted to the wishes of the people in a republican area.

    You may suspect a lot Roger, but we will wait and see.

    I hope to see convictions. I think we are a great deal closer to seeing them after this statement.

  • jonty

    paddy what about the wishes of the british and irish people who want the ira to go away for ever?

  • Davros

    Why does he think he can get away with such barefaced lies ?

    Because he has been allowed to lie time and time again in the past without any serious consequences.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Paddy, my suspicions don’t enter into it. The identity of the murderers was known in the community within well under 24 hours of it taking place. The IRA could have had an immediate court-martial at that time to establish for themselves what had happened. Instead they have waited three weeks, and in between there have been repeated and continued calls for justice to be done. It isn’t possible for a reasonable person to conclude anything other than that this latest move constitutes political expediency.

    I hope to see convictions as well, but the IRA didn’t plan on them as I doubt it counted on the public backlash from the community that we have seen. It has certainly had to sit down and do an awful lot of hard thinking about the inevitable ramifications it will face if it hands it’s members over to the PSNI. I’ve no doubt that what we are seeing here is a damage limitation exercise, with the IRA weighing up the risks of handing over a number of it’s members to the cops against the risks of allowing the whole business and discussion thereof to continue unabated.

  • PaddyCanuck

    I agree Roger that politics is often about expediency, but this move by the IRA is progress and I welcome progress.

    I know nothing of the timing of any court marshall or anything else and either do you, but the time period of events here is very fast.

    How long did the Birmingham six, and Guilford 4 sit in Jail, how long have the finucanes waited for justice, how long did the Bloody Sunday families have to wait?

  • swmcc

    Paddy – the statement is not progress. [ removed ]

    be nice or a yellow card will surely follow. A.U.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Paddy, I was wondering for a short while how long it would take for you to start the whataboutery, and I count a mere five posts away from your initial complement. It’s got to be a record. It’s very sad indictment that you think someone like me (the telling thing being that you are probably relying on presumptions rather than facts about my political views) questioning the IRA’s justice procedures must be someone who wasn’t concerned about injustices at the hands of the British, and how you seem to believe that introducing those matters into a discussion about the IRA somehow adds weight to your argument.

    swmcc, I don’t agree with his line but at least he’s being polite.

  • swmcc

    Well I basically wanted to say what you said, but I said it in less words 😉 Meh… it is late and I am grumpy.. I will wait until tomorrow morning to put my point forward.

  • PaddyCanuck

    I was not casting aspirations in any way against you roger, I was just trying to put the chain of events that have led to this statement in perspective. I was contrasting them with events in our past, but could easily contrasted them with for example the plight of the disappeared, and how there families waited many years for any such traction.

    When assessed in that light this statement and the speed by which it came to light is most certainly, in my opinion progress.

  • spirit-level

    It does amuse me when a para-military organisation tries to play the moral card.
    Its very existence is anathema.

  • Davros

    Is it too late for Meath ?

    Housewives hanging Sinn Fein out to dry

    From David Lister in Athboy, Co Meath, the Times.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    I think this is progress, belated though it was. And I suppose, when you look at how long the Conlons waited for their apology from Blair, it is quicker than others have been at times. That is a huge black stain on the British Government’s human rights record.

    No matter what way it’s dressed up though, this is alsoa massive embarrassment for the IRA. If this does not convince them they have to deal with certain elements of criminality within their own ranks, nothing will.

  • Alan

    *If this does not convince them they have to deal with certain elements of criminality within their own ranks, nothing will.*

    I think most of us would prefer that they rid themselves of their ranks!

    I also wonder what right Peter O’Neil has to court martial anyone? What are the sentences available for particular crimes ( murder seems to merit mere expulsion)? Is there a statute of limitations on the courts martial, or can the organisation investigate other equally heinous crimes? How might a member of the public institute proceedings against a member of the IRA through the courts martial? Do members arraigned before the court have access to legal assistance provided by the court? Do members found guilty by the Court have access to appeal procedures and other human rights protections? Do members arraigned before the court have access to higher courts including Strasbourg?

    I’m sure we will eventually see a transcription of this case made public which will include the names of defendents, those sitting in judgement and counsel. The reason I make this point is that from my reading of the announcement it is clear that one person was present at the *trial*, but were the other defendants?

    Also, when one defendant approached a solicitor to make a statement, did that statement include an instruction to present the statement to the police or other representative of the justice system who can use it to further a conviction – or does the statement remain unusable as a matter of client / solicitor privelige – or does it contain a condition upon its release?

    Finally, can I make it clear that these questions are directed to Peter O’Neil, not to the wider republican movement.

  • James

    Now that’s a golden parachute.

    When you are expelled from the mob over here your brains end up on the red Corinthian leather.

    Unless they use a subsonic .22 with a silencer, of course. Then it just rattles around a bit and no one is stuck with a dry cleaning bill.

    The lads on the Short Strand still have some juice with the Army Council.

  • JC47

    Now that they have been expelled from the IRA they are criminals. Prior to expulsion they were the de jure ( and in the Short Strand the de facto )members of the legitimate government of the Irish Republic. The IRA is mandated by the authority derived from the members of the 2nd Dail. This is now Adams et al can state that “there are no criminals in the republician movement”. it would be interesting to see transcripts of the ‘court martial’. Surely the killers could have made an adquate defence that they were acting under the orders of a superior officer?
    Anyway their reign of terror in the Short Strand is over. I assume that they were also guilty of the rape of underage girls and the branding on the breast with a hot iron on another girl ( how these activities can be described as legitimate acts I leave to republician apologists ).
    It will be interesting to see if this act of expediency will satisfy the McCartney familty. If Paula McCarney runs for local election her guaranteed election may well prove a watershed in Irish politics. The ballot box may yet prove mightier than the armalite.

  • vespasian

    “IRA volunteers fully understand that they are bound by rules and regulations and a code of conduct.

    There will be no tolerance of anyone who steps outside of these rules, regulations or code”.

    Can we all know exactly what these are so we know what the IRA thinks is criminal and what is not?

  • Sluggerite

    Timeline of events

    By Staff Reporter

    January 31 – Following an altercation that began in Magennis’s bar in Belfast, Robert McCartney (33) is stabbed along with his friend Brendan Devine. He dies in hospital after being found in Cromac Street in the early hours. Police later carry out a number of searches in the Markets area and are stoned by youths. Sinn Fein say the murder is part of a growing knife culture across the north.

    February 1 – Continued trouble, mostly involving children, in the Markets area during police searches. Sinn Fein accuses police of heavy-handedness and an “unacceptable” operation, while the DUP accuses republicans of orchestrating the disturbances.

    February 3 – Chief Constable Hugh Orde says he does not believe the crime was “related to a particular terrorist group following its particular objective”.

    February 4 – Hundreds attend a vigil for Mr McCartney in the Short Strand. Sinn Fein says he was “a valued member of the community”.

    February 7 – Brendan Devine speaks about the stabbing for the first time in the Irish News, amid allegations that IRA members were responsible. There are reports that the bar may have been forensically ‘cleaned’ and security tapes seized following the murder.

    February 8 – Robert McCartney’s funeral. Father Sean Gilmore describes murder as “the greatest evil one person can commit against one another”.

    February 11 – In a letter to the Irish News, a cousin of Mr McCartney hits out at those who criticised the police searches: “the only ‘unacceptable and unjustifiable action’ that occurred was the taking of a life” he writes. Chief Constable Hugh Orde says it is clear that people “who belonged to illegal organisations” were involved.

    February 13 – Paula Arnold, Robert’s sister, blames the IRA for protecting the killers and covering up evidence. In a letter to the Irish News, former Sinn Fein assembly member John Kelly warns of an “increasingly fascist and totalitarian green jackboot” within republicanism.

    February 14 – Amid mounting pressure, Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams says that none of those involved in the murder “acted as a republican or on behalf of republicans”. He urges anyone with information to give it to a solicitor, priest of any other “reputable person”. In a letter in the Irish News, former republican hunger striker John Nixon says the murderers are “terrorising people and communities openly with disdain and impunity”.

    February 15 – Alliance councillor Naomi Long says she has been contacted by east Belfast constituents who say they have been intimidated into not giving evidence. SDLP leader Mark Durkan says Mr Adams should have said people are free to go to the police without fear of reprisals.

    February 16 – After the family meet US consul general Dean Pittman, the IRA issues a statement denying that it was involved. It does not directly rule out suggestions that individual members were involved. It says that no-one should impede the McCartney family “in their search for truth and justice”. An aunt of Mr McCartney, Margaret Quinn, claims high-level figures in Sinn Fein and the IRA covered up his murder. She says being critical of Sinn Fein is “an increasingly dangerous exercise”.

    February 17 – The McCartney family welcomes the IRA statement, saying it “removes obstacles to witnesses” to come forward. Ms Quinn demands Sinn Fein “clearly and unambiguously” call for potential witnesses to contact police. Sinn Fein’s Martin McGuinness says he would have no objection if an individual passed information on to police if they “deemed [it] to be appropriate”.

    February 18 – Despite the IRA statement, police say no fresh evidence has come forward. The McCartney family say they believe witnesses are still being intimidated.

    February 20 – The McCartneys accuse the IRA of paying “lip service” to its statement by continuing to intimidate witnesses. Paula Arnold suggests she may run in May’s local government elections as an independent candidate. Sister Catherine McCartney says the community no longer stands in fear of “loyalists, Shankill Butchers, RUC or the British army” but of republicans.

    February 23 – The McCartneys meet with senior Irish politicians, including foreign minister Dermot Ahern. The family meet the SDLP, who reveal they are to put forward a motion at Belfast City Council calling for information to be passed to police.

    February 24 – The McCartneys meet Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams in Dublin. He says after the meeting: “There is an onus on us to do everything we can to bring closure to this family, to have those responsible for their brother’s death to be brought to justice.”

    February 25 – The IRA releases a statement saying that three republicans have been expelled from the organisation. It adds that it will not tolerate any intimidation or threats in the name of the IRA or otherwise to any person who wishes to help the family.

  • Sluggerite

    IRA statement

    Following our investigation the IRA leadership, along with the leadership of the Belfast Command, initiated disciplinary proceedings through Court Martial. This was in accordance with IRA Standing Orders. These proceedings were directed only against IRA volunteers.

    The outcome of the Courts Martial include the dismissal of three volunteers, two of whom were high ranking Volunteers.

    One of these Volunteers had already gone to a solicitor immediately after the incident to make a statement of his actions on that night.

    The other two were advised in the strongest terms possible to come forward and to take responsibility for their actions, as the McCartney family have asked.

    In our statement of February 15th, we made it absolutely clear that no one should hinder or impede the McCartney family in their search for truth and justice and that anyone who could help them in that search should do so.

    A dispute broke out between a senior republican and a group of people that included Robert McCartney and Brendan Devine.

    After an initial heated verbal exchange between the senior republican and Robert McCartney. At that point another man and the senior republican were involved in a further heated exchange. Blows were exchanged and a major melee erupted in the bar.

    Neither that man nor the senior republican had weapons of any description in their possession though both were struck with bottles thrown by others. Robert McCartney played no part in the melee.

    Both Brendan Devine and the senior republican received serious stab wounds inside the bar.

    A crowd spilled out onto the street. Verbal abuse and threats were being shouted by many of those present.

    Some of those at the scene, including some republicans, tried to calm the situation.

    The senior republican’s wounds were tended by people at the scene and he was quickly taken to hospital.

    In the meantime Brendan Devine, Robert McCartney and another man ended up in Market Street. It is the view of our investigation that these men were leaving the scene.

    They were followed into Market Street where Robert McCartney and Brendan Devine were attacked and stabbed.

    Both men were stabbed by the same man. Robert McCartney died a short time later in hospital.

    No materials under the control of or belonging to the IRA were produced or used at any time during this savage attack.

    A member of the bar staff was threatened by an individual who then took the CCTV tape away and destroyed it.

    Those at the scene are responsible for the clean-up or destruction of evidence at the scene.

    There should be no misunderstanding of our position in that regard. Any intimidation or threats in the name of the IRA or otherwise to any person who wishes to help the McCartney family will not be tolerated.

    The internal disciplinary steps taken by the IRA are a matter for the IRA. They are not intended to be, nor should they be, seen as a substitute for the requests of the McCartney family.

    IRA volunteers fully understand that they are bound by rules and regulations and a Code of Conduct. There will be no tolerance of anyone who steps outside of these rules, regulations or code. Anyone who brings the IRA into disrepute will be held accountable.

  • Jacko

    Adams, SF and the IRA would never have moved on this without all of the pressure and, particularly, that pressure coming when it did.
    Even considering that, I welcome this development and consider it to be substancial progress.

    And, casting a glance in the direction of Derry, it also sets a precedent that will be hard to ignore.

  • Jimmy Sands

    Presumably anyone who wishes to make a police statement now knows what they are supposed to say.

    This is how stupid they think we are.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    The IRA’s version of events described in their statement resembles, but does not completely concur, with the version of events being circulated within the community. They correctly mention that they did not have any weapons on them, but they do not mention how they came to acquire the murder weapon and they do not describe what precisely led to the murder weapon being used. My interpretation of the statement is that they are trying to play down the role that republicans played in the murder itself.

    Furthermore, given the fact that an individual has handed himself over to the police, it sounds rather like what we’re going to see is a judge saying “how do you plead” and an individual saying “guilty” and that will be the end of the story. I don’t see how this will be any more satisfactory than Ken Barrett pleading guilty to the murder of Pat Finucane; it leaves unanswered many questions surrounding the tragic event. Nonetheless, we should all support the McCartney family in their judgement of the steps the IRA have taken.

  • Sluggerite

    “We are encouraged by the second IRA statement and view it as a step forward in our search for truth and justice.

    “We welcome the fact that the IRA has accepted unequivocally that their members were involved in Robert`s cold-blooded murder and the subsequent cover and clean-up operation.

    “We also welcome their assurances in relation to the intimidation of witnesses and hope that this will bear fruit.”

    “The version of the event of January 30 as outlined by the (IRA) statement is not one family accepts as fact.

    “The accuracy of this will only be confirmed or rejected when a trial takes place.

    “It is, however, only when ALL those involved, that is those IRA members and others, regardless of how small a part they played in the murder and subsequent clean and cover up operation have handed themselves in and are charged, tried and convicted by the courts, that we as a family will be able to bring closure to this horrific ordeal and begin to grieve for Robert.”

    It is understood the McCartneys believe that if witnesses want to go to the police they should be allowed to do so but if they do not feel comfortable they should give the information to solicitors.

    Their statement today acknowledged that the IRA had expelled some of its members and disciplined others.

    “The statement also confirms what our family has maintained all along that Robert was a completely innocent man,” they said.

    from UTV

  • Jimmy Sands

    Perhaps I’m misreading it but I see no IRA admission with respect to the cover-up. They accept it took place but have not admitted their involvement. Perhaps what they have in mind is the Adare scenario, with the prosecution offered guilty pleas to manslaughter, take it or leave it.

  • Amergin

    Saturday: “Detectives investigating the murder of Robert McCartney today said they arrested a man after he and his solicitor went to a police station in Belfast.

    The move came just hours after the family of Mr McCartney called for all those involved in the incident to ‘hand themselves in’.

    In a statement, the family of the Belfast father of two said they were encouraged by the IRA’s move to throw out three of its members following an internal investigation.”

    Again, as with the Economist article, I am simply quoting reliable news. So, remember, the messenger should not be shot. Whatever scepticism abounds (and there clearly is a lot) events are happening on the ground. Sadly, no act or deed will bring back Robert McCartney or countless other victims. But I hope that whatever faint light is appearing in the tunnel will mean no more Robert McCartneys.

    This society may finally be emerging from the effects of its brutalisation during the 20th Century.

    Amergin (not tag teaming with anybody)

  • alex s

    “IRA volunteers fully understand that they are bound by rules and regulations and a code of conduct.

    “There will be no tolerance of anyone who steps outside of these rules, regulations or code.

    “Anyone who brings the IRA into disrepute will be held accountable.”

    Reading the IRA statement it’s clear the Provos are trying to dig themselves out of a hole, afterall if the movement has such a strict code of disclipine what about those that shot Gerry McCabe?

    Has Gerry lost the ‘midas touch’?

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    The IRA’s supposed code of conduct is being deployed only out of political expediency. There are a number of allegations regarding the conduct of IRA members in the Short Strand and in the Markets which predate the McCartney murder. There are a number of activities of the IRA stretching into the far past for which no court martial was invoked, such as the killing of Andrew Kearney and as Alex has said the shooting of Garda McCabe during a post office robbery for which there has been no court martial and no dismissal from the organization.

    Amergin, I don’t know whether there is light at the end of the tunnel. Today’s move by the IRA is a self-preservation exercise, the organization means to go on existing and not disband. It wants there to be a short quick hearing at which someone will plead guilty, and then they want the matter closed. They want to close this matter down and wallpaper over it. Although they have taken a step forward they do want to avoid providing the justice that the McCartney family are seeking.

  • PaddyCanuck

    “Although they have taken a step forward they do want to avoid providing the justice that the McCartney family are seeking”

    I do not understand how you have came to this conclusion?

    I think this is patently not the case.

    The McCartney family deserve justice, I hope they get it, and the vast majority of Republicans within and without the Republican movement hope they get justice. I think we are alot closer to achiving that justice.

    I also hope we are closer to achieving an end to the IRA. Which I as a Republican, also want.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    I do not understand how you have came to this conclusion?

    It’s pretty straightforward stuff Paddy.

    – The IRA delayed their court martial for three weeks, suggesting they’re only doing it because they were forced to.

    – The IRA are handing over three out of the alleged twelve who were supposedly involved.

    – The IRA’s statement omits about 2/3rds of the story about what went on that night at Maginness’, and tells the remainder in a misleading fashion.

    – Still no witnesses have come forward, and they probably won’t need to as I suspect the individual who has gone to the police is going to plead guilty without the need for a full trial. Don’t you think that’s nice and tidy for certain players in this business ? Of course it is, does anyone really think the IRA are going to countenance a depiction of events that is more severe than the depiction they gave in their statements ? Are they going to tolerate people giving testimony which show their statements to be lies ?

    I don’t accept for one second that the IRA intended to hand these people over from the start. I also don’t accept the idea being peddled in some quarters that the IRA cannot be held organizationally responsible for the actions of one of it’s local units.

    I’m glad you want the end of the IRA, so do I. However I think the IRA’s existing membership are having far too cushy a time robbing banks and businesses, extorting and racketeering other businesses, and intimidating the communities within which they live. I don’t believe they’re going to give up those little privileges easily.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Hmm, the chappie who handed himself into the police has been unconditionally released, so there’s no immediate sign of a prosecution taking place – unless the police are going to arrest other people based on evidence given.

  • peteb

    Well, Roger, we don’t actually know what part of the events this individual has admitted to being responsible for.. perhaps he only admits to removing the CCTV tape from the bar.. in which case the only charge, if that is all he did, would be an obstruction of justice charge..

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    peteb, indeed, but all we can do right now is speculate. He could have gone in there to say he was nothing to do with it and saw nothing. Who knows.

  • Davros

    I should imagine Mr Devine must feel some relief.

  • Davros

    Henry McDonald claims that the most senior Provo, the man who ordered the killing wasn’t one of the three expelled…

    Fresh twist in IRA murder claim

    Among those who escaped expulsion from the IRA was a senior member of the organisation who, the McCartney family alleges, gave the order for the fatal attack. A former ‘officer commanding’ of the IRA’s Belfast Brigade, he holds a position in the so-called Northern Command and has allies in the highest echelons of the Provisionals. McCartney’s sisters claim this man bore a longstanding grudge against their brother.

  • Frankie

    A man was released without charge by police investigating Mr McCartney’s death on Saturday night.
    Roger , Pete & Of Course Henry
    You were all Wrong .

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Frankie, yes I admit I was wrong.

    The desired outcome of this scenario for the IRA is that the situation will go away when a conviction of one or more people following a hearing takes place. I still predict that this will be substantively what takes place.

    My other prediction is that any day now, the republicans to launch a vilification campaign against the McCartney sisters. As with the Peace People many years ago, the republicans are just waiting for them to slip up. My personal belief (not founded on anything other than my own hunch) is that they’re working on how to do this right now.

  • Hardy Handshake

    Be fair Roger, the Peace People was a nonsense from the start, the whole idea was misconceived, notwithstanding the mischief of some of the characters involved.

  • Hardy Handshake

    Question to Gerry Adams: What is your position on the proposition that the murderers of Robert McCartney should be knee-capped and expelled from Ireland – would it be fair, would it be political, would it be criminal would it be just ?

    If they were knee-capped and expelled would you consider anyone who informed on such actions themselves a tout and collaborator and thereby be amenable to Provo justice of execution, expulsion etc ?

  • alex s

    What about the man left to bleed to death in the lift, I think he was called Kearney, his mother also met with Gerry Adams but recieved no justice?

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    The Peace People were a little ahead of their time and made a strategic error in calling for people to support the police. Aside from that, for a period of time they were a significant thorn in the side of the IRA, and as soon as they slipped up the IRA moved to destroy them. If we are not careful, it could be the place in a few years’ time that people are coming onto discussion groups and accusing the McCartney family of “mischief”. The first signs of it appeared here yesterday when someone made note of some of the journalists who were sitting next to the family as they made their statement, and a previous attempt was made by an individual who has since been red-carded who made an observation about a person in McCartney’s company at the time of his murder. I’m sure it won’t be long before we see An Phoblacht excitedly documenting whisperings about this and that.

    Alex S, yup there was no court-martial for Kearney’s killers who deliberately murdered him in cold blood. Then again the nasty side effect of the peace process where paramilitaries are generally understood to be observed with one eye closed hadn’t fully settled in yet.

  • Jimmy Sands

    I can’t see this as anything other than a PR exercise. No doubt the plan is that the knifeman takes one for the team, ideally a manslaughter plea and hope the family can be persuaded to swallow it. As for Kearney, I doubt the provos want his killer anywhere near a police station at the moment. I can’t see him quaking in his shoes, even if he did get them back.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Jimmy, indeed.

  • JC47

    Speaking in South Armagh today Gerry Adams said “I want to send my support to the rally which is taking place in the Short Strand this afternoon and is being attended by Sinn Fein leaders in the city”.
    Was the IRA leader who ordered the murder of Robert McCartney also in attendance?
    Why was this man not expelled from the IRA.

  • Baslamak

    In London at the latter part of the 1960s, the Kray Twins suggested to one of their henchmen that he take the rap for the killing of Jack the Hat, a man Reggie Kray had stabbed and hacked to death. The man refused believing it was not in his best interest to do so and understandably was furious that anyone would ask him to accept a life sentence on their behalf. Nevertheless he realised by his refusal to bend the knee to the twins, his options had narrowed somewhat; and he rolled over and turned Queens evidence. Few blamed him for doing so, including those who had been close to the Krays, loyalty is one thing, gross stupidity is another.