No parade in Cork

As mentioned elsewhere – the Orange Order has pulled out of the Saint Patrick`s Day parade in Cork due to concerns over safety.

“Orange Order grand secretary Drew Nelson said both his organisation and the parade organisers were disappointed that the Order would not be attending the festivities.

He added that he welcomed the invitation and hoped the Order would be able to participate in the event next year.”

  • Davros

    Pressure from Sinn Fein is cited in the BBC article …

    For this reason, I have always defended the right of Orangemen to march. But this right must be exercised with full respect for the right of others, and in particular, the rights of host communities.
    G Adams 2003

    Orangemen were to walk by invitation.
    Rightly or wrongly , this reinforces perception that 32 County Ireland will be a Cold House.

  • George

    Strangely enough, I don’t think there would have been an issue if it was a southern Orange lodge marching in Cork.

    Unfortunately, Northern Irish Orangemen don’t have a good reputation south of the border, especially in recent years.

    Rightly or wrongly, many hold them responsible for the years of violence and public disorder around Drumcree which directly led to several sectarian murders, including children.

  • Alan2

    Yeah this was the point was trying to make with regards the minister in the other article. If it was something like Drumcree or or whatever but surely it is huge progress that an Orange Lodge from the North HAS BEEN INVITED to Cork sT PAddy`s Day and the Orangemen HAVE ACCEPTED the invitiation. Surely that should be welcomed as progress.

  • Jacko

    I know many people from the Republic. Protestants there have been deeply embarrassed for years by the antics of the orange order in Northern Ireland – and who could blame them. They just can’t equate Christianity, in whatever form, with the clowns from the OO that make it on to their tv screens, never mind see them as memebers of their own faith. And neither can I. Christian? – give me a break.

    There are many decent orange order members, but as an organisation it is a deeply malevolent force. I’m glad they aren’t going to Cork and I’m glad the minister spoke out.

  • Davros

    as an organisation it is a deeply malevolent force.

    Closer to the mark – as an organisation it is portrayed as a deeply malevolent force. Parade in Cork ? Should we not be more concerned, in the light of Events in Short strand , the Northern Bank Raid, events in Cork and Dublin with the RM’s association with the St Patrick’s day festivities in the North ?

  • Alan2

    And that is what needs to be addressed becuase the MAJORITY of Orange parades are entirely non-controversial. Only the bad stuff hits the TV`s with the exception of the Twelfth TV coverage. Things are moving in the right direction since all the ceasefires….I think it is a real shame that they are not going. I would have loved to see them marching with other cultures and wearing shamrocks.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi George,

    You always mention Drumcree when mentioning the OO. Fair enough. But, Drumcree was the result of 2 opposing sides – not just 1. You also say…

    “which directly led to several sectarian murders, including children.”

    Again, fair enough. However, just to achieve a sense of balance, why not also mention that representatives of the 32 County Sovereignty Committee attended Drumcree on the “residents” side. This, at a time when the Omagh bombing was still fresh in the mindset. And then of course there were the SF reps. Also guilty of “several sectarian murders, including children”

  • davidbrew

    game set and match Davros methinks!

  • Alan2

    Seems the West Belfast St Paddys organisers are also involved in the Cork parade.

  • Jacko

    “…as an organisation it is PORTRAYED as a deeply malevolent force.”

    Sorry Davros, the false image thing just won’t wash.

    Since its inception, the Orange Order, presenting itself as simply a Protestant fellowship organisation, has continually meddled in political matters and, often, has incited acts of political and sectarian motivated violence. It has had no qualms, when it felt like it, about exhorting its members to break the law. It expels members who marry a Catholic but has no difficulty in allowing convicted murderers to remain in its ranks.
    It provides a rallying point for all the worst elements within unionism.
    Are all OO members bad people? No, of course not. But it is a bad organisation. Exactly what does it add to Protestantism that is to the benefit of Protestants and their religions?.

  • Alan2

    “It expels members who marry a Catholic but has no difficulty in allowing convicted murderers to remain in its ranks.”

    Some Muslims kill family that marry Christians. A couple of churches around here refuse to conduct Christenings becuase the parents do not qattend church. The Catholic Church still has the ne Termere decree. Whats your point? The Orange Order is an institution which people join voluntarily and can also leave. That surely is their choice.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Jacko,

    Fair enough points, but the same could be said of the GAA…

    ” has continually meddled in political matters and, often, has incited acts of political and sectarian motivated violence. It has had no qualms, when it felt like it, about exhorting its members to break the law. It has no difficulty in allowing convicted murderers to remain in its ranks.”

  • George

    Congal Claen,
    can you tell me of one instance by the GAA which compares with Orange Order members attacking lines of police in front of the world’s cameras?

    I’d love to hear of any events held by the GAA that have ever engendered the level of murder, hatred and violence engendered by the Orange Order’s attempts to force its way past the police and army at Drumcree.

  • maca

    I think it’s the Donegal Unionists who should have been invited to parade in Cork. Being fellow country men I don’t think anyone would be too bothered by the fact that they are protestant or unionist, no-one would feel at all threatened by that.
    But the NI OO is a different matter, not simply because they are not ‘fellow countrymen’ but they appear to reject anything Irish and indeed seem to take pleasure from insulting anything Irish (or catholic). And whether or not it is a fair reflection on the organisation it is the perception that exists, IMHO.
    People remember Drumcree and the 12th celebrations, and as Alan pointed out it’s not all one sided but it’s the perception which is key here.

    I’d also say that if the OO want to build bridges or want to change peoples perception of them they need to deal with the people living next door first. IMHO.

  • maca

    CC
    “” has continually meddled in political matters and, often, has incited acts of political and sectarian motivated violence. It has had no qualms, when it felt like it, about exhorting its members to break the law. It has no difficulty in allowing convicted murderers to remain in its ranks.””

    Now i’m VERY curious how that can be said about the GAA.

  • George

    For example Congal,
    there were 100,000 people on hand to welcome home the Tyrone team when it won the 2003 All-Ireland football final.

    How many riots?
    How many murders?
    How many beatings?
    How many soldiers and police were needed?
    How many arrests?

    How much did the graffiti damage cost? A total of 1,000 pounds.

  • maca

    “fair reflection” should have been “fair assessment”.

  • willowfield

    George

    Armagh GAA supporters attacked Lurgan police station during “celebrations” of their “all-Ireland” victory a few years ago.

    The GAA also incites hatred by honouring nationalist terrorists.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi George/Maca,

    Maybe you should check out the past chairmen of Druminatee GAA club as a starter…

  • maca

    CC
    Maybe you could provide us info as I never even heard of the club. Who is he, what did he do?

    By highlighting one member are you not doing what people always ask us not to do, judge by the actions of a few?

  • CavanMan

    Willowfield
    The GAA as a whole does not honour Nationalist terrorists.It is the GAA clubs/councils in this province which are alone in doing this.As you are a unionist i do not expect you to know about the workings of a club…Every GAA club has an extraordinary amount of independence to use its facilities in whatever way,the members wish.It is totally WRONG to honour terrorists,this is the opinion of 99% of the GAA population on this island.It is wrong of you to label the GAA as a terrorist honouring society.In the same manner i could label the Northern Irish football supporters as biggots,because of the actions of some towards Neil Lennon,i dont however because i know the vast majority of ”Norn Iron” fans are genuine football fans.

  • Davros

    Jacko – what % of OO marches are contested ?
    We can talk history if you like – The lawyer who defended those charged after the affray at Dolly’s Brae was an Orangeman for example.

    When you portray the OO as being “deeply malevolent” you are no different than a rabble-rousing Seawright or Paisley who latches onto past and present excesses to misrepresent and slander.

  • Davros

    Cavanman – there’s much the same local independence within the Orange Order.

  • George

    Willowfield and Congal,
    why don’t either of you answer the questions:

    can you tell me of one instance by the GAA which compares with Orange Order members attacking lines of police in front of the world’s cameras?

    Name any events held by the GAA that have ever engendered the level of murder, hatred and violence engendered by the Orange Order’s attempts to force its way past the police and army at Drumcree?

    As offensive as you may find the Mairead Farrell Cup being called the Mairead Farrell Cup, just as many are probably offended by some of the bands and banners on Orange marches, it hardly compares with attacking police and army, rioting, beatings, murder, etc. etc. etc.

    Can either of you answer the question about any GAA event that compares with Drumcree?

  • Davros

    Has the GAA ever been attacked using an Athboy strategy George ? Can you provide details ?

  • CavanMan

    I think it is a disgrace that the OO have had to cancel their trip down south.Perhaps they should have been invited to a parade which is closer to N.Ireland.Dublin perhaps,The Main parade in Donegal(Letterkenny etc)Cavan,Monaghan,Dundalk,ah maybe not dundalk.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Maca/George,

    Can I get back to you – I don’t have the info to hand. Suffice to say they are very prominent republicans/terrorists (with a hint of diesel) and it would be inconceivable for them to be elected without the members of the club knowing their background…

    Hi CavanMan,

    I agree with practically all you said…

  • maca

    “Has the GAA ever been attacked using an Athboy strategy”

    I don’t know much about Athboy(yet) but the GAA, or at least it’s members & premises, have often been abused and even attacked by loyalists & a number of times by security forces.

    Though now we’re just getting into whataboutery 😉

  • Davros

    CC – please remember that anything dodgy could get Mick in a heap of trouble and even lead to site closure.

  • slackjaw

    I agree with CavanMan.

    It reflects well on Cork City Council that they chose to issue the invitation, and it reflects well on the Orange Order that they accepted. It is disappointing that they felt they could not attend in light of threats to their safety.

    The distinction, as described by maca, that many in the Republic draw between members of the Orange Order from Donegal and those from the North is also disappointing.

    It is time republicans ditched the politics of the Orange bogeyman. If NI OO members are prepared to make the trip all the way down to Cork to appear in the St Patrick’s Day parade, they are surely better Irishmen than those who would stand in their way.

  • maca

    CC
    “and it would be inconceivable for them to be elected without the members of the club knowing their background”

    Yes, i’ve no doubt their clubs knew. And it’s unacceptable.
    It’s still doesn’t explain your 02:00 PM though, only one part of it which I can accept (grudingly ;)).

  • maca

    Slackjaw
    “The distinction, as described by maca, that many in the Republic draw between members of the Orange Order from Donegal and those from the North is also disappointing.”

    Firstly, I doubt many actually know of the existence of OO members in ROI but if they heard of unionists in Donegal isn’t it natural their attitude to them would be different?
    It’s events like Drumcree which give the OO & Unionists a bad name not events like Rossnowlagh.

  • Jacko

    Davros
    Seawright and Paisley, eh. The ultimate insult.

    If the OO is merely a Christian organisation why does it involve itself so deeply in partisan party politics? Why does it try to unseat certain unionist politicians and promote the prospects of others? Why does it invariably rail against unionist politicians who try to reach out to Catholics and nationalists? Does it ballot all members before the leadership decides who to support and who to oppose? Has it ever considered whether or not it should be seen to be supporting any party or person involved in politics? As a self-proclaimed Christian organisation, what exactly has it managed to do in all its history to promote Christian love and understanding – or has it ever even tried?

  • willowfield

    CavanMan

    The GAA as a whole does not honour Nationalist terrorists.

    It tolerates the honouring of nationalist terrorists.

    It is the GAA clubs/councils in this province which are alone in doing this.

    And in doing so incites hatred.

    As you are a unionist i do not expect you to know about the workings of a club…

    A welcome admission that the GAA excludes unionists.

    Every GAA club has an extraordinary amount of independence to use its facilities in whatever way,the members wish.It is totally WRONG to honour terrorists,this is the opinion of 99% of the GAA population on this island.

    Then they should take action against the terror-supporting GAA clubs. Expel them.

    It is wrong of you to label the GAA as a terrorist honouring society.

    It’s not an unreasonable conclusion to draw from its toleration of terror-supporting member clubs. Also the 1979 GAA Congress motion would add weight to such a conclusion.

    In the same manner i could label the Northern Irish football supporters as biggots,because of the actions of some towards Neil Lennon,i dont however because i know the vast majority of ”Norn Iron” fans are genuine football fans.

    Very, very poor analogy. The NI supporters did not tolerate the booing of Neil Lennon. On the contrary, they stood up against it, cheered him, wrote letters of support to him, created a banner in support of him, and got behind the anti-sectarian Football for All campaign. What has the GAA done about the terror-supporting member clubs?

    George

    can you tell me of one instance by the GAA which compares with Orange Order members attacking lines of police in front of the world’s cameras?

    No. Why do you ask?

    Name any events held by the GAA that have ever engendered the level of murder, hatred and violence engendered by the Orange Order’s attempts to force its way past the police and army at Drumcree?

    Why?

  • Mick Fealty

    See previous post on whataboutery!

  • CavanMan

    Willowfield

    It tolerates the honouring of nationalist terrorists.

    Actually i am pretty certain most of the GAA members are unaware of this honouring of republican terrorists

    A welcome admission that the GAA excludes unionists.

    No i was commenting on your knowledge of GAA activities

    Then they should take action against the terror-supporting GAA clubs. Expel them.

    I aggree with you fully on this.

    It’s not an unreasonable conclusion to draw from its toleration of terror-supporting member clubs. Also the 1979 GAA Congress motion would add weight to such a conclusion.

    It is WRONG of you to label the GAA as a whole,just because of the actions of the GAA in the six counties..Name me an instance oustside of Northern Ireland which the GAA have shown support the IRA or other republican terrorists.BTW i have been a GAA member for 15 years now since i was 5,and i dont know what happened at the 1979 GAA congress..you may call this ignorance,however we are not into the politics of the GAA,only the sporting side of it.

  • George

    Willowfield,
    always with the questions but never with the answers.

    Davros,
    I take it by your silence you can’t name anything any situation involving the GAA which in any way compares with Drumcree. If you can, come out and name it.

    Congal,
    I believe that this shows that you can’t say the same of the GAA as you claim, which is how all this started.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi CavanMan,

    “Name me an instance oustside of Northern Ireland which the GAA have shown support the IRA or other republican terrorists”

    The Sam Maguire.

    Although, I agree that this does not mean that all GAA supporters are terrorist appologists. Which I would equally say about the OO.

  • willowfield

    CavanMan

    Actually i am pretty certain most of the GAA members are unaware of this honouring of republican terrorists

    You should know that ignorance is not a defence. Also, the 1979 motion passed the full GAA Congress.

    No i was commenting on your knowledge of GAA activities

    Yes, on the assumption that because I was a unionist I wouldn’t know. Thus admitting that the GAA excludes unionists.

    I aggree with you fully on this.

    Excellent.

    It is WRONG of you to label the GAA as a whole,just because of the actions of the GAA in the six counties.

    But the GAA as a whole tolerates the pro-terror clubs and takes no action against them!

    Name me an instance oustside of Northern Ireland which the GAA have shown support the IRA or other republican terrorists.

    1979 motion.

    BTW i have been a GAA member for 15 years now since i was 5,and i dont know what happened at the 1979 GAA congress..you may call this ignorance,however we are not into the politics of the GAA,only the sporting side of it.

    You should open your eyes to the reality of the GAA.

  • cg

    “Hi George/Maca,

    Maybe you should check out the past chairmen of Druminatee GAA club as a starter…”

    CC

    Where is Druminatee?

    I know Dromintee but not Druminatee

    If you are trying to say something spit it out

  • willowfield

    George

    You’re a strange man. I’ve answered your first question (the answer is “no”). And I don’t understand the second question – I don’t believe it is possible to answer it as it is based on a false premise.

    Strange man indeed.

  • Davros

    George – I’m not playing that game … as the GAA hasn’t faced a concerted attack orchestrated by the equivalent of SF and it’s proxies it’s a daft question.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi George,

    “I believe that this shows that you can’t say the same of the GAA as you claim, which is how all this started”

    As I said, I’ll get back to you with details. However, you should’ve been able to work out what I’m on about with the clues I’ve already given…

    Ed: Don’t bother doing that. Congal, this is getting into personal stuff. I’m not in a position to road test accusations against indviduals in court until we have some serious big media backing! So please back off, and stick to issues rather than individuals!! Yellow Card!

  • Davros

    As a self-proclaimed Christian organisation, what exactly has it managed to do in all its history to promote Christian love and understanding

    Most recently it tried to walk in Cork and got a kick in the collective nuts for it’s trouble Jacko…..

  • CavanMan

    Willowfield
    If you want someone to blame for the Misbehaviour of the GAA in your province,i recommend you contact the your nearest Ulster GAA officer.

  • CavanMan

    Congal Claen
    i am familiar with the Dromintee Club in Armagh,and have relatives on it splaying staff, could you inform me of the political nature of this club? its members etc,when you get the information please.

  • cg

    Cavanman

    I am from Dromintee and have family both playing and on the committee and would like CC to make his comments very clear.

  • George

    Willowfield,
    the answer to your why is because Congal compared the OO to the GAA.

    The reason why the OO are unacceptable to many in the south is not because some bands and banners on Orange marches are offensive just as some GAA clubs have offensive names.

    The reason is that their events in recent years have led (directly or indirectly) to the police being attacked, the army called out, houses been burnt with people in them etc. etc.

    On the fringes of their 11th Night celebrations things like the burning of GAA jerseys, Irish flags and Catholic effigies also occur throughout Northern Ireland and I have never once heard the Orange Order come out against it.

    Can you imagine the uproar among unionists if every all-Ireland weekend Ireland was lit up with fires, atop of which were placed union jacks, orange sashes and Northern Ireland football jerseys.

  • Alan2

    “If the OO is merely a Christian organisation why does it involve itself so deeply in partisan party politics? Why does it try to unseat certain unionist politicians and promote the prospects of others? Why does it invariably rail against unionist politicians who try to reach out to Catholics and nationalists? “

    Care to cite some examples? The only politics I have ever seen in an Orange lodge was pledging allegiance to the UK.

    “As a self-proclaimed Christian organisation, what exactly has it managed to do in all its history to promote Christian love and understanding – or has it ever even tried?”

    £120,000 for Cancer Research UK last year, various charities including orphanges are run byn the various Orange jurisdictions.

    “On the fringes of their 11th Night celebrations”

    You are being rather mischievous here George since the Orange Order does not organise these events. In fact most people that attend such events are young people.

    Again the lasting image of such things are paramilitaries making speeches at such events similar to the Orange being associatedwith Drumcree.

    The reality is usually somewhat more mundane and ordinary. Indeed in recent years various community groups and the Order have been working to bring some sort of order to the bonfires so that families can attend.

  • barnshee

    “Protestants there have been deeply embarrassed for years by the antics of the orange order in Northern Ireland”
    What protestants would they be then– the token prods or the cowed 4% rump decimated by decades of neglect?

  • George

    Alan2,
    I know the Orange Order doesn’t organise these events but if it is a responsible and honest Christian organisation it should not remain silent on these burnings, which happen around its celebrations and are now virtually part and parcel of the 12th celebrations.

    As a Christian group, the Orange Order and, more importantly, Unionist Parties of all hues have to speak out against this vile practise.

    They don’t and always put it down to young people or working class people or drunks etc. which is simply unacceptable.

    Could you imagine if people in the Irish Republic had a day for burning union jacks?

  • George

    Barnshee,
    Outside of Ulster, just 23,000 people voted for the Unionist Party in the 1918 general election. The other 234,000 were in Ulster.

    Strange how you neglect to mention the fact that, if we take what you say is true, that it was actually the Ulster Unionists who “shafted” most southern Protestant unionists by giving up on the idea of keeping Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan.

    You are shedding crocidile tears and feigning concern for southern Protestants.

  • Christopher Stalford

    George

    “Rightly or wrongly, many hold them responsible for the years of violence and public disorder around Drumcree which directly led to several sectarian murders, including children.”

    Drumcree had nothing whatsoever to do with the death of the Quinn children – it was a family fued that got way out of hand. May I suggest a better source than Susan McKay for further comments.

  • Christopher Stalford

    George

    “Can you imagine the uproar among unionists if every all-Ireland weekend Ireland was lit up with fires, atop of which were placed union jacks, orange sashes and Northern Ireland football jerseys”

    Emmm…Unionists place the Irish tricolour atop bonfires in order to demonstrate, in a symbolic way their aversion to assimilation into a United Ireland. Republicans on the other hand demonstrated their aversion to the Union by murdering hundreds of innocent people.

    A little perspective perhaps Georgie.

  • idunnomeself

    Would the OO refuse to walk up past the Ardoyne shops if the PSNI couldn’t guarantee their safety?

    only asking like!

  • Christopher Stalford

    Turning to the subject in hand The Church of Ireland cleric will be pleased. He can go along now and celebrate cultural diversity, having campaigned alongside Sinn Fein to keep the Orangemen away.

    Notch another one up for parity of esteem and mutual respect!

  • maca

    Barnshee
    “What protestants would they be then– the token prods or the cowed 4% rump decimated by decades of neglect?”

    Disgraceful comments!

    Alan
    “The only politics I have ever seen in an Orange lodge was pledging allegiance to the UK”

    But they are still a political organisation, by their own admisison 😉

    Chris
    “Unionists place the Irish tricolour atop bonfires in order to demonstrate, in a symbolic way their aversion to assimilation into a United Ireland. “

    Yeah, pathetic isn’t it!?

    “Republicans on the other hand demonstrated their aversion to the Union by murdering hundreds of innocent people”

    Hint: Loyalists (unionists), innocent people, murder.

  • Jacko

    “Drumcree had nothing whatsoever to do with the death of the Quinn children – it was a family fued that got way out of hand.”

    A lie. And a dangerous lie at that.

    Examples of OO involving itself in politics? What is this, has someone just dropped in from Mars or what?
    Lets ignore the fact that for decades the only way you could advance in the sole unionist party was by being a member of the OO, and that it has voting positions “as of right” on the UU governing body.
    The OO came out publicly against the agreement, advised its members to vote against it, helped organise a campaign against the agreement and against Trimble and likeminded unionists, backed people like that eejit in Portadown whose supporters assaulted Trimble and his wife at the electoral count – need I go on.

    As for those who claim never to have heard politics discussed at OO meetings, I don’t believe them. But, even if they haven’t, it proves my point about the leadership dictating political decisions and taking a stance for the whole organisation without balloting their mostly sheep-like members.

    As an aside, I am a bit disappointed in those normally “broadminded” unionists who, as soon as the most openly sectarian organisation in NI is criticised, have leapt to defend it.

    As for the GAA, no time for it either but feel that if all of us decided to put our own houses in order, instead of always trying to justify faults by pointing the finger at similar faults on “the other side” we might get a little further.

  • CavanMan

    All the GAA bashing is quite hilarious,even if the GAA flew the union flag and played GSTQ ate matches..some of you would still have something to complain about.

  • Ringo

    Unionists place the Irish tricolour atop bonfires in order to demonstrate, in a symbolic way their aversion to assimilation into a United Ireland.

    What a convoluted way to justify sectarianism.

    Republicans on the other hand demonstrated their aversion to the Union by murdering hundreds of innocent people.

    Unlike the late Billy Wright. Isn’t that right, Christy?

  • Alan2

    “and that it has voting positions “as of right” on the UU governing body.”

    That is because the OO was instrumental in founding the party. Personally I think the link should be severed completely.

    “As for those who claim never to have heard politics discussed at OO meetings, I don’t believe them.”

    Discussed? Maybe. Day to day things are discussed as they are everywhere but never political debate or policy making etc….
    it simply is not what the OO is about. It is more about lectures / degrees.

  • Christopher Stalford

    Ringo.

    In answer to your question: I don’t know.

    I’d better watch out though, that hateful little cretin Emerson might be reading – don’t want to find myself in the Irish News again!

  • Christopher Stalford

    What I do know is that I utterly condemn all terrorism and all the groups who perpetrate it, including so-called Loyalists. I haven’t advocated the appeasement of those responsible for destroying Northern Ireland for the last thirty-plus years, unlike the Pro-Agreement parties.

  • George

    Christopher Salford,

    amazing how there doesn’t appear to be unionists willing to condemn or, more importantly, work to stop the annual burning of the Irish flag and Catholic and Irish cultural symbols.

    Do you also advocate muslim fundamentalists burning the Stars and Stripes in a symbolic way to show their aversion to assimilation into American culture and politics?

    How many will die and be hurt this year during this bit of symbolism? How many deaths are acceptable to you so Unionists can maintain their right to freely display their hatred by burning all things Irish.

    Do you not think it was a natural step for former DUP councillor and avowed Irish flag hater George Seawright to advocate “incinerating” Catholics if in the eyes of most unionists anything Irish people hold dear is fit for nothing more than the pyre.

  • Davros

    I’d better watch out though, that hateful little cretin Emerson might be reading – don’t want to find myself in the Irish News again!

    I thought he went easy on you Christopher …. but he probably won’t be as kind in the future LOL

  • Davros

    George –

    Let’s address the Seawright issue – have you the decency to acknowledge that your post is misleading ? Seawright wasn’t ex-DUP when he made his disgraceful remarks – he was a member and have you the decency to acknowledge that, to their credit, the DUP expelled him because of his remarks ?

    Quote via Nuzhound

    The problem of sectarian and racially-motivated speeches erupted again in 1984 over the remarks of a DUP councillor, George Seawright. Seawright told a meeting of the Belfast Education and Library Board that “Catholics and their priests should be burned”. As a result of the ensuing furore councillor Seawright was expelled from the Rev Ian Paisley’s party.

    You have ‘incinerate’ in quotes and you quoted something similar on the ‘Loyalists attacked on racist website…’ thread. Did he use that expression ?

  • George

    Davros,
    I didn’t mean to mislead. I used former because he isn’t in the DUP any more as he is dead. For clarity, he was a member when he made the comment and he was expelled afterwards.

    I asked if it was a natural step for former Seawright to advocate incinerating Catholics if in the eyes of most unionists anything Irish people hold dear is fit for nothing more than the pyre?

    All I know is that earlier in the year that he made his anti-Catholic remarks he was rampaging through West Belfast with a gun to haul down a tricolour.

    As far as I know, that incident didn’t warrant an expulsion from the DUP as it only involved runnig around with a loaded gun in a Catholic area and treating the Irish national flag with contempt.

    He did regain his seat as an independent even after his anti-Catholic comments as the people in his constituency felt he was their kind of man.

    This is why I believe it was a natural step for him and others who engage in this practise. If you dehumanise and degrade another culture and believe everything belonging to it belongs on the pyre then it’s only a matter of time before the next steps – incitement to hatred, violence and murder.

  • Davros

    I’m a pedant George, nothing personal. I think you extrapolate from the minority extremes to generalise about the majority. It’s not been unknown for Bands to lend each other instruments.
    When I was a kid farmers looked after each others stock when the other side were having their ‘big day’. It’s not all like the worst excesses seen in some areas of Belfast.

    If you dehumanise and degrade another culture and believe everything belonging to it belongs on the pyre then it’s only a matter of time before the next steps – incitement to hatred, violence and murder.

    which is why some of the attacks ON the Orange Order cause such concern George.

    Cheers.

  • willowfield

    CavanMan

    If you want someone to blame for the Misbehaviour of the GAA in your province,i recommend you contact the your nearest Ulster GAA officer.

    The GAA as a whole makes the rules.

    George

    The reason why the OO are unacceptable to many in the south is not because some bands and banners on Orange marches are offensive just as some GAA clubs have offensive names. The reason is that their events in recent years have led (directly or indirectly) to the police being attacked, the army called out, houses been burnt with people in them etc. etc.

    Maybe “many in the south” are unclear about the causes of these troubles, all of which resulted from the OPPOSITION to Orange parades. Most parades pass off entirely peacefully: it is only those that are opposed by Provo hate groups that result in violence.

    Christopher Stalford

    What I do know is that I utterly condemn all terrorism and all the groups who perpetrate it, including so-called Loyalists. I haven’t advocated the appeasement of those responsible for destroying Northern Ireland for the last thirty-plus years, unlike the Pro-Agreement parties.

    But you supported the failed deal of last December!!

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Can anyone post up what Newton Emerson said about Christopher Stalford? I must admit I’m intrigued…

  • Davros

    Billy- check your e mail

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Cheers Davros.

    Christ, they gave Stalford a column?

  • cg

    Davros

    Any chance of sending me a copy as well, I could do with a laugh 😉