Return to war not an option

Danny Morrison, believes that with all the speculation around the identity of perpetrator of the December bank raid, some commentators have lost some perspective. He also argues that there is no return to out and out war by the IRA on the cards.

His reasoning is essentially practical:

The British government factors into its calculations and negotiations that the IRA cannot return to armed struggle without Sinn Féin paying a heavy price electorally. Undoubtedly, because there is a degree of association, Sinn Féin’s vote would suffer. However, the reason why a return to armed struggle would be foolhardy is because it would be a return to a military stalemate.

  • Jacko

    No matter how you cut it, regardless of the smoke and mirrors, (or Danny’s childish “prove it” attempt to defend the indefensible) the question is this: What price are we prepared to pay for the IRA not returning to conflict?

    Are we willing to turn a blind eye to everything (short of returning to conflict) that republicans get up to?
    Are we willing to stand by while a mafia state is created?
    Are we willing to sacrifice our liberal democratic principles?
    Are we willing to put up with brutal summary justice being regularly meted out to petty criminals by major league criminals, against whom communities are not even allowed to speak out?
    All of the above, remember, 10 years after cease-fires and getting worse not better.

    The same applies in varying degrees to the loyalist thugs, morons and gangsters who would be as bad if not worse only they haven’t the wit to pull some of the strokes the provos do.
    But, far more importantly, the provos are looking to help run this place.

    I was and remain pro-agreement, I understand the value of collective government, it’s the price that is really testing my democratic principles.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘All of the above, remember, 10 years after cease-fires and getting worse not better.’

    Patent nonsense.

  • Mick Fealty

    Pat

    However open to conjecture the piece you quote from Jacko, this part of his contribution seems to sum up the question that is on everyone’s lips:

    “…it’s the price that is really testing my democratic principles”.

    In all the public meetings and press briefings I’ve attended, I’ve not heard anyone from Sinn Fein give a quantifiable measure (i.e. the price) of what it is they are asking for. Or, more importantly, whether there is any prospect of the IRA going away at all, ever.

    What’s your feeling on this?

  • PaddyCanuck

    “Prove it” Childish?

    Imagine having to prove an accusation in a democracy…

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Mick,

    i’m of the opinion that the IRA will never go away. However, it is the role of the IRA that interests me, especially an IRA in a peaceful political setting.

    At all these political meeting did you ever think of asking them what their price was? Also, i was unaware that it was the question on everyone’s lips. It certainly isn’t where I come from.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Doesn’t the issue photos seem quaint now…

  • Mick Fealty

    Pat, if you are correct, then surely that would be better stated out loud, rather than kept under wraps?

  • Mick Fealty

    Billy,

    Quaint, or a tasty red herring?

  • Jacko

    Pat McClarnon

    “…it is the role of the IRA that interests me, especially an IRA in a peaceful political setting.”

    Precisely the question that is taxing me.
    Even more precisely, is the IRA going to morph completely into an organised criminal gang – with strong links (putting it mildly) to senior members of our administration – for whom the usual legal constraints don’t apply?

    Paddy Canuck

    “Imagine having to prove an accusation in a democracy…”

    Firstly, the IRA isn’t an individual being accused of wrongdoing – so the “innocent until proven guilty” line doesn’t apply in quite the same way.
    Secondly, even if it did apply, it’s hardly an organisation with a crime-free history being accused of something.
    Thirdly, why don’t the individuals who actually have been named sue?

  • Mick Fealty

    Pat, I think you can take it that it was a question at several, though by no means all, of those meetings.

  • mickhall

    Posted by: Jacko
    ‘All of the above, remember, 10 years after cease-fires and getting worse not better.’

    Patent nonsense.
    Posted by: Pat Mc Larnon

    Pat,
    Are you saying these things are not going on, if it were not for the PIRA statement yesterday, today’s papers would have been full of the brutal murder of Robert McCartney in Belfast and the arrests following it. The death of this man appears to have been on a par with those killed by Reg and Ron Kray in east London. This being so has not jacko got a point about summary justice being meted out, often in the most cowardly way?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Mick,

    ‘Pat, if you are correct, then surely that would be better stated out loud, rather than kept under wraps?’

    Of course it should, but I assumed everyone knew that, even unionists. I thought that their idea of an old comrades association was just a ploy to get around the obvious.

    Jackeen,

    I would imagine they are going to morph into a disciplined political cadre used as a backbone for and acting as a focal point for advancing the republican agenda.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    mickhall,

    i’m not saying any such thing as well you know. But not to acknowledge that there has been advances in the last 10 yrs is in fact living a lie. Things are not getting worse and that is patently obvious.

    What happened at Magennis’s was a criminal murder (note criminal) first and foremost. I suggest that if you have any theories on that murder you put it before the thread. The tone of your post suggest you do indeed have a theory. Please share.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Yous might want to discuss the McCartney murder on the relevant thread.

  • mickhall

    Mickhall posted,
    “The death of this man appears to have been on a par with those killed by Reg and Ron Kray in east London.”

    Pat Mc Larnon replied,
    I suggest that if you have any theories on that murder you put it before the thread. The tone of your post suggest you do indeed have a theory. Please share.

    Pat,
    There was a bit of a clue about what I thought about those who committed the murder, (see above) Although I would hardly call it a theory, I was just expressing an opinion that most decent people would think about such a crime and those who carried it out..As to the other point in you post, yes things are much better than ten years ago, which in itself begs the question what point does the PIRA serve these days?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    mickhall,

    are you suggesting that the IRA deliberately released the statement on decommissioning in order to push the Mc Cartney murder off the front page?
    If you hadn’t noticed the papers weren’t full of the story already. Given that the ‘republican’ questioned had been released one could have expected the media interest to decrease further. In fact no one is currently being questioned at present.

    Do you think this is a case for Anthony and Tommie to investigate?

  • mickhall

    Pat,

    Your loosing me mate and by the sound of it beginning to see conspiracies every where. I hope none of that Columbian disco powder has seeped down the line.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Pat

    No, it’s case for the police to investigate, if the rioters would allow them to get on with the job.

    I’m afraid if the local ‘community police’ were to look into it, they would be investigating themselves, and what republican could have confidence in that?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    mickhall,

    very good lol , it was you who alluded to IRA statements and headlines, plus Reggie and Ronnie. A bit bizarre but if your drawing back fair enough. Columbian disco powder? I prefer Warner Bros myself.

    Gonzo,

    at last a bit of honesty. You see all that pussy footing for nothing.

  • Jacko

    Pat McClarnon my friend and fellow poster you said:”I would imagine they are going to morph into a disciplined political cadre used as a backbone for and acting as a focal point for advancing the republican agenda.”

    The morphing is taking some time isn’t it.
    Meanwhile back at the ranch, whilst on their way to morphing into all of the above (we’ll take your word for it) the IRA seems unable to move itself beyond the mafia phase.

    And to think Bobby Sands and his colleagues died rather than be classed as common criminals only for this shower to become just that – criminals masquerading as freedom fighters.

  • Jacko

    While my good friend Pat consults with the SF thought police on how he should answer the above, does anyone else feel that Danny Morrison might actually be a half-decent writer if he could but drag himself away from the propogandising?
    Brian Feeney, a very nice guy incidentally, has a not disimilar problem in that he has got himself so tightly locked into the role of “angry from Andytown” he can no longer move beyond it. He’s a better writer than that.
    Just a few thoughts there folks while we’re waiting on Pat.