Ireland and the holocaust…

The RealityCheckDotie blog says that the recent controversy over the President’s remarks on the Irish parallels with the Nazi persecution of the Jews, glides over some deeply embarrassing realities of Ireland’s own past self-conduct.

For instance:

The pogrom of Jews in Limerick in the early 1900’s is known of, as is DeValera’s refusal to take in Jews fleeing Nazi persecution. But it is not widely discussed. It too is often overlooked.

  • felix quigley

    Mick
    Thank you for posting this comment. I do not think we have yet come to terms with this remark by McAleece and so this is just a few superficial thoughts.

    I took the trouble to glance over the two sources you mention. I find Mullen’s article really an ignorant piece of writing, pretending to be very progressive etc under the cover of attacking Ian Paisley’s old Protestant Telegraph, a publication which I deplore!

    One of the articles in Paisley’s paper attacked the record of the Catholic Church in Croatia. The reason I say Mullen is ignorant, partisan, and lacking in knowledge is exactly this. Paisley was indeed right about the Catholic Church in Croatia. In fact it was much much worse than Paisley said although Mullen prints it as if it were false. The German Nazis themselves were said to be appalled by the cruelty and barbarism of the Croatian fascists. Croatian priests led massacres of especially Serbs and indeed this memory lived on for generations (the biggest selling book in the nineties in Croatia was mein Kampf).

    Also the title he gives his piece is revealing. He calls it ‘President tells it like it is, but we can’t say such things these days’. This shows Mullen is backing McAleece. But what exactly is he backing.

    The Reality Check has it right. The problem with McAleece’s comparision of the Nazis and the Holocaust to northern sectarianism is exactly that. How can you compare the two?

    To even think about comparing the two, and by a President, the figurehead for the country, is to be anti-Semitic. That is the central point and the point that has been obscured.

    I would also point out that Reality Check did deal with the pervasiveness of anti-Semitism in Europe. But it left out two things for whatever reason:

    1. It is the neo-Left today, under the guise of being anti-Israel and anti-Zionist, which is the biggest purveyor of anti-Semitism and

    2. It did not mention the widespread anti-Semitism in the ‘Palestinian’ Arab movement and in the whole of the Arab and Muslim world, ie a big part of humanity. Arafat was trained in Egypt by the Mufti of Jerusalem who had been a leading Nazi in the Final Solution. The present President Mahmoud Abbas who has taken over from Arafat is in fact a Holocaust Denier.

  • mogg

    On Ireland & pogroms – wasn’t there one in Limerick in 1945,46?

    But please – still this stuff about McAleese! Of course her comments weren’t anti-semitic/racist…

    She was talking about the TRANSMISSION of bigotted feelings. She was not drawing a comparison between the intensity or depth of racism but trying to talk about how those feelings and ideas get transmitted.

    It was close to bone. It had the power to offend unionists/protestants who she drew into an unpleasant simile. And as a simile it didn’t work because some of the people who were listening stopped listening. And she apologised for it.

    But she was right that racism/sectarianism/fear of the other is easily provoked in humans. And that families / institutions / groups we associate with can stir up and breed these feelings. And act as transmitters of them.

    In other words it is not other people who are racist – we all can be – and we need to be on our guard.

    Claiming McAleese is anti-semitic because of that comment is, well…it doesn’t add to the sum of human intelligence. We need to stretch our minds a bit more.

    It’s like the LibDem front bench MP (whose name escapes me ) who was sacked for saying she could imagine what drove people to be suicide bombers. She didn’t say she liked it, applauded them or thought it was a good thing…But she was sacked for thinking within the Green Zone.

    If you can’t imagine other people’s situations you have a failure of humanity.

  • felix quigley

    Mogg, you say much about McAleece, let me pick this ‘She was talking about the TRANSMISSION of bigotted feelings. She was not drawing a comparison between the intensity or depth of racism but trying to talk about how those feelings and ideas get transmitted’.

    You sound as if you have come straight out of a sociology lecture in some awful university.

    What she was talking about was the Holocaust. She felt drawn to talk about this because she is the head of a country, in Europe, with a history on the issue of anti-Semitism.

    That was not enough for her, she could not stop there, she had to insult protestants in the north of Ireland.

    Now, Mogg, you can go from this in different directions, all valid. You can say, strange behaviour from a president, insulting a neighbouring people, or as she would claim ‘her own people’. Very valid direction. Very clear.

    My point is also clear, in a different direction, but still in the content of her words. I wrote that it is anti-Semitic to compare the Holocaust of the Jews with the North of Ireland. It trivialises the Holocaust and by trivialising this seminal experience in human history it insults Jewish people and is part of the whole anti-Semitic conscousness in the world.

    Trivialising the Holocaust IS the transmission of hatred.

  • James

    Moog, Moog, Moog, if you don’t rub the lamp, the Genie stays in.

    Your first clue should have been the progression in the original post of:

    Ireland -> Croatia -> anti-Zionist -> Palestine -> Mufti

    The poor guy is an obsessive compulsive with just one anti-Islamic note and always, Christ I mean always, ends up with this Mufti character.

    Give ’em a break: It must be hell going through life with a Mufti on your back.

    He’s been sizzled with the death of a thousand Fisks this past year but, like the Energizer Bunny, just keeps coming back. It is best to just let him exercise his free speech and rant off into the vacuum, otherwise it’s akin to poking a caged animal with a stick.

  • Biffo

    Mogg

    Well Said.

    Felix Quigley

    Looney

    James

    So he has form. You saved me posting a riposte, ta.

  • felix quigley

    Thanks boys for those two comments. I had lost the previous comments you made calling in effect to silence my views. James you´re a good guy, you have given methis piece which I will treasure.
    James, you think by not discussing Haj Amin al Husseini his record will go away. I knoew you support the Palestinian Arab cause, I know you hate Israel. What you as an American is doing on Slugger so often I am not quite sure but that is not my business, nor do I care. Once again no intervention by Mick (or even David Vance) to stop this kind of censorship.
    Anyway James I think you will fail. I am thinking of posting as the first article on my nerw website a letter which Haj Amin al Husseini wrote and which condemned 400,000 Jews to the gas chamber. Yes, I will make that the first article in commemoration of those Jews, Serbs and Romany people who died at the hands of that Arab Palestinian Nazi and the founder of the PLO, Haj Amin al Husseini. Thanks again James for the contribution.

  • Colm

    What censorship Felix ?

    No-one has stopped you saying whatever you want, but do you not realise that you serve your own argument (the cause of Israel) poorly when you find it so necessary to mention this Mufti of Jerusalem in EVERY posting you make.

    I’m not saying you shouldn’t raise aawareness of his role in middle east history if you wish but mention him only when it is appropriate to do so and your views will be listened to with more respect. At the moment I am sure many regular readers, as soon as they see your name, overlook what you are saying, as the only thing they will be doing is playing the ‘spot the Mufti mention’ game!