'Where’s Me Culture ?'

Angelique Chrisafis has a very cultured article ( doesn’t mention the L word) in the Guardian reporting on rumblings of discontent from Cork in Air of dissent as Cork fears a cultural damp squib. Low budget, poor organisation and allegations of elitism have led to a backlash fringe.

  • Keith M

    It’s not because I’m originally a Limerickman, but the idea of Cork being a European city of culture is a complete nonsense. The awarding of this title is farce. Basically every country get a turn in rotation. The countries witha rich cultural history (ie Italy, Greece etc) get the same treatment as places like Latvia, Lithuania or Slovakia! What a joke! Even if you consider the Irish cities; Galway has a far greater claim to be a city of cultural than Cork. You’d find more culture in a tub of yogurt than in Cork.

  • Appledore

    The fringe group where’ s me culture is a very healthy populist movement celebrating and supporting Cork’s designation as Europe’s City of Culture not a bunch of begrudgers. They would, however, be hard pressed to find a role for someone with Keith M’s ignorant, disingenuous, elitist perspective.

  • Appledore

    The fringe group where’ s me culture is a very healthy populist movement celebrating and supporting Cork’s designation as Europe’s City of Culture not a bunch of begrudgers. They would, however, be hard pressed to find a role for someone with Keith M’s ignorant and elitist perspective.

  • Appledore

    On another point, and sorry for the duplicate post, I think the From the Lagan to the Lee iniative is far more relevant to those interested in Northern Ireland politics and culture than someone’s opinion that Ireland is not worthy of hosting cultural events.

  • Keith M

    Dear dear Appledore, hit a nerve have I? Obviously the fact that you need to make up things I never said gives an indication of the weakness of your arguement. I have never said that “Ireland is not worthy of hosting cultural events”. Read what I said again.

    As for “where’s me culture”, yes I can see tens of thousands of Europeans flocking to Cork for the coffee mornings. This whole escapade is a silly and expensive joke.

  • George

    Keithm,
    you seem to not know what you are talking about on this issue.

    Following a decision of the European Parliament, in 1999, the Council of Europe established a Community Action for the European Capital of Culture Event for the years 2005 – 2019.

    Ireland was given the opportunity to nominate the City of Culture for 2005 the first year of the new Community Action. Four Irish cities, Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford applied.

    Cork was designated as Cultural Capital of Europe for the year 2005 by the Council on the basis of the report of the selection panel which was formed by the European Commission.

    Sour grapes perhaps?

    Also, the “where’s me culture” group are completely independent of Cork 2005. They have received no funding and realised that there is so much culture in Cork an unofficial and official group were needed to cover all bases.

    As for your unsubstantiated comment that Galway has more culture than Cork,would you mind substantiating that or is this just prejudice – partiality that prevents objective consideration of an issue or situation.

    I’d particularly like to see you convince me that visual arts are stronger there than in Cork.

  • Vavid Dance

    I for one have visited Cork and much as some of its rural surroundings are scenic in extremis one has to say that the city itself is as dreary a spot as one can possibly imagine for cultural events to take place. It is also of course, being one of the rebel heartlands of Eire, seething with crime, narcotics, violence, corruption and horridness of all descriptions. Additionally, and without meaning to be in any respect cold-hearted or unmannerdly towards our southerly neighbours,many of whom are relatively law-abiding and welcoming, even fluent English speakers visiting the place will find it highly difficult to understand what the folk there are saying. The city itself is also extortionate in terms of appropriate living quarters, vittles and entertainment and I for one won’t be going back in a rush. The surrounding countryside though, as I say, is often pleasing to the eye.

    May the cat not eat your interpreter befeckin’gorrah and bebloomin’Jaysus !!

  • Keith M

    I’m afraid George that like so many oher things, you are the one who doesn’t know what he is talking about. The award of capital of culture is divided up country by country. Here is the running order until 2019:
    Countries to host the European Capital of Culture:
    2005 Ireland
    2006 Greece
    2007 Luxembourg
    2008 UK
    2009 Austria
    2010 Germany
    2011 Finland
    2012 Portugal
    2013 France
    2014 Sweden
    2015 Belgium
    2016 Spain
    2017 Denmark
    2018 Netherlands
    2019 Italy

    As you can see a culturally rich country like Italy or Greece, has the same allocation as places like Luxembourg! The one thing that I will correct myself on, is that Eastern European countries have still to get involved in this nonsense.

    As for Galway vs Cork, I suggest you ask people who are not connected with either city. Galway is well known for its rich artistic scene, and hosts one of the biggest arts festivals in Europe every year. Cork on the other hand should stick to something a little less cerebral and something it is good at (e.g. sport).

    Vavid, Cork has long since turned its back on SF/IRA type republicaniam. The party only holds 2 seats on the corporation (out of 31) and an even more misserable 1 (out of 48) county council seat. See it’s not all bad!

  • barnshee

    ” You’d find more culture in a tub of yogurt than in Cork.”

    And you will find more culture in Latvia etc than 100 Irelands

  • Vavid Dance

    Keith

    As and when you visit the wretched city kindly report back on what you find – Eire Provisional support is widespread (most of them probably vote ‘Fenian Foil’ – there’s little substantial difference in matters of British sovereignty and corruption), the ongoing influence of the Roman Catholic chruch and GAA and you’ll be in little doubt – Cork remains a rebel stronghold.

    Thank you.

  • George

    Keithm,
    I didn’t mention Italy or the rotation principle as being right or wrong so don’t throw up a smokescreen about me not knowing “The award of capital of culture is divided up country by country”.

    Please explain how I could know about Community Action for the European Capital of Culture Event for the years 2005 – 2019 and about Ireland gettng the first year but not know about the rotation principle. It’s like saying I know Chelsea are top of the Premiership but I don’t know the sport is soccer.

    You wrote “Galway has a far greater claim to be a city of cultural than Cork” and I answered that it lost out to Cork in a competition for the right to host 2005.

    You wrote: “As for “where’s me culture”, yes I can see tens of thousands of Europeans flocking to Cork for the coffee mornings. This whole escapade is a silly and expensive joke. “

    Where’s me culture received nothing so how could it be an expensive joke.

    As for “I suggest you ask people who are not connected with either city. Galway is well known for its rich artistic scene, and hosts one of the biggest arts festivals in Europe every year. Cork on the other hand should stick to something a little less cerebral and something it is good at (e.g. sport). “

    Anyone involved in the visual arts, even those from Galway, will tell you that Cork is a much more important centre than Galway. The Council believed it had a greater claim.

    I ask you to substantiate your claim that Galway has a far greater claim to be a city of culture than Cork. Give me some evidence.

  • Vavid Dance

    George

    Anyone who has travelled to Galway will realise that it is BY FAR the more culturally enriched place. Kindly desist from making silly remarks in respect of places you have clearly never visited.

    Thank you

  • George

    Guggler and Keithm,
    the Council of Europe disagrees and I value their informed opinion on this matter more than yours, which appears to be without substance.

    Why?
    Galway doesn’t have a sufficient arts infrastructure when compared to Cork.

    Galway is stronger in theatre but Cork’s strength in visual arts, music and dance make it the better choice overall.

  • Appledore

    Wether Galway or Cork or Mars is more cultured than anywhere else is irrelevant. Cork is the European Capital of Culture for 2005 and it extends a broad invitation to all to participate and celabrate.

  • cg

    What about South Armagh? 😉

  • George

    Keithm,
    I don’t suppose there is any chance of you retracting your unsubstantiated and unhelpful

    “I’m afraid George that like so many oher things, you are the one who doesn’t know what he is talking about” on this issue.

    It would be appreciated and warranted.

  • Appledore

    I would love to see Crossmaglen
    be the European Capital of Culture some day. Why not? Though I’m sure KeithM would repeat his yogurt cliche, and stay in his cultural bunker, and Vavid Dance would carry on being dreary.

  • cg

    “I would love to see Crossmaglen
    be the European Capital of Culture some day”

    Over my dead body, Cross is the big pretender.
    The real capital is Dromintee 😉

    As a region South Armagh would be more than suitable for a capital of culture

  • Davros

    What’s in Crossmaglen apart from pubs and a sports store ? Where are the Makem’s based ?

  • cg

    “What’s in Crossmaglen apart from pubs and a sports store ?”

    A big dirty barracks that nobody wants 😉

  • PS

    I think it’d be fair to say that having a city of culture doesn’t accurately reflect the variation in culture through the Island. Personally I think it’d have been better if Co. Donegal could represent the island in terms of culture, but as they say, rules are rules!

  • Davros

    Frank O’Connor and Seán Ó Faoláin were born in Cork.
    Rory Gallagher.
    Any other famous sons or daughters in this context ?

  • Henry94

    To be accurate Rory Gallagher was born in Balyshannon Co. Donegal. His father was from Derry and his mother was from Cork. Of course he grew up in Cork.

    To your list I would add Sean O’Riada and of course George Boole without whom we may not be having this conversation

  • Appledore

    Michael Collins (XIV) (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … r 1890, Clonakilty, County Cork, Ireland …
    D’Arcy Corrigan (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 2 January 1870, County Cork, Ireland …
    Richard Croker (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … r 1841, Clonakilty, County Cork, Ireland …
    Patrick Fitzgerald (I) (actor, producer, other crew member, special effects department member)
    Date of birth (location): … 1962, County Cork, Ireland …
    Peter Gowen (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … ????, County Cork, Ireland …
    Creighton Hale (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 24 May 1882, County Cork, Ireland. …
    Danny La Rue (actor)
    Date of birth (location): 26 July 1927, County Cork, Irish Free St …
    Joe Lynch (I) (actor, composer)
    Date of birth (location): … July 1925, Mallow, County Cork, Ireland …
    Kieron Moore (actor, director, writer)
    Date of birth (location): … r 1924, Skibbereen, County Cork, Ireland …
    Tony Scannell (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … gust 1954, Kinsale, County Cork, Ireland …
    Niall Toibin (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … ish Free State (now County Cork, Ireland) …
    Thomas F. Tracey (actor, second unit director or assistant director)
    Date of birth (location): … c. 1875, County Cork, Ireland …
    Helen O’Leary (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … County Cork, Ireland …
    Fiona Shaw (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … 10 July 1958, County Cork, Ireland …
    James Sheridan Knowles (writer)
    Date of birth (location): … 12 May 1784, County Cork, Ireland …
    Here are the matches for Cork, Ireland
    Bob Carlile (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … c. 1945, Cork, Ireland …
    Nevill Coghill (actor, director, writer)
    Date of birth (location): … Castletownshend, Co Cork, Ireland …
    Michael Collins (XIV) (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … Clonakilty, County Cork, Ireland …
    D’Arcy Corrigan (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … anuary 1870, County Cork, Ireland …
    Richard Croker (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … Clonakilty, County Cork, Ireland …
    Dermot Crowley (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 19 March 1947, Cork, Ireland …
    Charles Doran (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 1 January 1877, Cork, Ireland …
    Michael Farmer (I) (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 9 May 1902, Cork, Ireland …
    Patrick Fitzgerald (I) (actor, producer, other crew member, special effects department member)
    Date of birth (location): … 1962, County Cork, Ireland …
    Eddie Golden (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 17 February 1912, Cork, Ireland …
    Peter Gowen (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … ????, County Cork, Ireland …
    Creighton Hale (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 24 May 1882, County Cork, Ireland. …
    Forrester Harvey (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 27 June 1884, Cork, Ireland. …
    Reginald Hearne (actor, writer)
    Date of birth (location): … 28 January 1919, Cork, Ireland …
    Alan Hendrick (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 9 August 1971, Cork, Ireland …
    Michael C. Hennessy (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 1925, Cork, Ireland …
    Denis Irwin (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 31 October 1965, Cork, Ireland …
    Roy Keane (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 10 August 1971, Cork, Ireland …
    Danny La Rue (actor)
    Date of birth (location): 26 July 1927, County Cork, Irish Free St …
    Joe Lynch (I) (actor, composer)
    Date of birth (location): … 925, Mallow, County Cork, Ireland …
    Jack McAuliffe (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 24 March 1866, Cork, Ireland …
    Kieron Moore (actor, director, writer)
    Date of birth (location): … Skibbereen, County Cork, Ireland …
    Edward Mulhare (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 8 April 1923, Cork, Ireland. …
    Bill Murphy (V) (actor)
    Date of birth (location): 14 February 1963, Cork City, Ireland …
    Cillian Murphy (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … arch 1974, Douglas, Cork, Ireland …
    Dave O’Brien (III) (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 1954, Glasheen, Co Cork, Ireland …
    Sean O’Brien (X) (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 1978, Midleton, Co Cork, Ireland …
    Gavin O’Connor (II) (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 17 December 1972, Cork, Ireland …
    Sean O’Faoláin (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 22 February 1900, Cork, Ireland …
    Winston Roberts (I) (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 1979, Kinsale, Co. Cork, Ireland …
    Tony Scannell (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … 54, Kinsale, County Cork, Ireland …
    Niall Toibin (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … e State (now County Cork, Ireland) …
    Thomas F. Tracey (actor, second unit director or assistant director)
    Date of birth (location): … c. 1875, County Cork, Ireland …
    Herbert Wilcox (actor, director, writer, producer)
    Date of birth (location): … 19 April 1892, Cork, Ireland. …
    Ann Collins (III) (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … 983, Ballydehob, Co Cork, Ireland. …
    Nuala Kelly (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … 8 October 1957, Cork, Ireland …
    Emma Ledden (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … 11 December 1977, Cork, Ireland …
    Helen O’Leary (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … County Cork, Ireland …
    Patricia O’Mahony (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … 1970, Cork, Ireland. …
    Kate Price (actress, writer)
    Date of birth (location): … 13 February 1872, Cork, Ireland. …
    Fiona Shaw (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … 0 July 1958, County Cork, Ireland …
    Patrick Galvin (writer, other crew member)
    Date of birth (location): … 15 August 1927, Cork, Ireland …
    James Sheridan Knowles (writer)
    Date of birth (location): … 12 May 1784, County Cork, Ireland …
    Frank O’Connor (III) (writer)
    Date of birth (location): … 17 September 1903, Cork, Ireland …
    Lennox Robinson (writer)
    Date of birth (location): … ober 1886, Douglas, Cork, Ireland …
    William Trevor (writer)
    Date of birth (location): … , Mitchelstown, Co. Cork, Ireland …
    Mairtin De Barra (other crew member, second unit director or assistant director)
    Date of birth (location): … 24 November 1975, Cork, Ireland …
    Hilary Kehoe (other crew member)
    Date of birth (location): … 26 May 1972, Cork, Ireland …
    Frank Merlin (other crew member)
    Date of birth (location): … 29 March 1893, Cork, Ireland …
    Danny Stack (other crew member)
    Date of birth (location): … Cobh, Co. Cork, Ireland …Niall Toibin (actor)
    Date of birth (location): … e State (now County Cork, Ireland) …
    Daniel Toscan du Plantier (actor, producer, other crew member)
    Trivia: … ife was murdered in Cork, Ireland – still no-one has …
    Thomas F. Tracey (actor, second unit director or assistant director)
    Date of birth (location): … c. 1875, County Cork, Ireland …
    Peter Vollebregt (actor)
    Mini biography: Peter was born in Dublin of Dutch parent …
    David M. Whorf (actor, director, producer)
    Mini biography: Starting in the film industry as a child …
    Herbert Wilcox (actor, director, writer, producer)
    Date of birth (location): … 19 April 1892, Cork, Ireland. …
    Barbara Babcock (I) (actress)
    Where are they now: … Everyman Theatre in Cork, Ireland. …
    Ann Collins (III) (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … 983, Ballydehob, Co Cork, Ireland. …
    Nuala Kelly (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … 8 October 1957, Cork, Ireland …
    Emma Ledden (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … 11 December 1977, Cork, Ireland …
    Helen O’Leary (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … County Cork, Ireland …
    Patricia O’Mahony (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … 1970, Cork, Ireland. …
    Kate Price (actress, writer)
    Date of birth (location): … 13 February 1872, Cork, Ireland. …
    Joy Ryan (actress, producer)
    Trivia: … nd raised in County Cork, Ireland …
    Fiona Shaw (actress)
    Date of birth (location): … 0 July 1958, County Cork, Ireland …
    Arnold Bax (composer)
    Date of death (details): … 3 October 1953, Cork, Ireland. (heart attack) …
    Lenny Abrahamson (director, editor)
    Mini biography: Lenny Abrahamson was born in Dublin in 1 …
    Harold Boihem (director, editor, producer, other crew member)
    Mini biography: Harold Boihem is an independent filmmake …
    Arnold Fanning (writer)
    Mini biography: Arnold Thomas Fanning is a writer, scree …
    Patrick Galvin (writer, other crew member)
    Date of birth (location): … 15 August 1927, Cork, Ireland …
    Elbert Hubbard (writer)
    Trivia: … County Cork, Ireland. …
    James Sheridan Knowles (writer)
    Date of birth (location): … 12 May 1784, County Cork, Ireland …
    Graham Masterton (writer)
    Trivia: … the River Lee in Cork, Ireland. They have three so …
    Frank O’Connor (III) (writer)
    Date of birth (location): … 17 September 1903, Cork, Ireland …
    Lennox Robinson (writer)
    Date of birth (location): … ober 1886, Douglas, Cork, Ireland …
    William Trevor (writer)
    Date of birth (location): … , Mitchelstown, Co. Cork, Ireland …
    Glenn Richard Côté (producer, other crew member)
    Other works: * (student film) Black Thumb (USC, 1990, …
    Mairtin De Barra (other crew member, second unit director or assistant director)
    Date of birth (location): … 24 November 1975, Cork, Ireland …
    Hilary Kehoe (other crew member)
    Date of birth (location): … 26 May 1972, Cork, Ireland …
    Frank Merlin (other crew member)
    Date of birth (location): … 29 March 1893, Cork, Ireland …
    Danny Stack (other crew member)
    Date of birth (location): … Cobh, Co. Cork, Ireland …

  • Davros

    Henry- George Boole was born in England. I had forgotten that RG was an Ulsterman, he’s so strongly linked to Cork in my mind.

    Appledore – can you weed out those not born in Cork City as after all it’s the City of Culture, not the County of Culture

  • Appledore

    Davros – I do not think Cork was selected on who was born, lived or died there and it is the “Capital of Culture” – not a City of Culture, its always been a city of culture. I am not really interested in debating the merits of why Cork was selected – it just was. I think it is a great opportunity for people to celebrate and particate as it will be over before we know it.

    The source of my Cork list was IMDB and I cannot say it is accurate or complete.

  • Davros

    Appledore, I didn’t say that Cork was selected on who was born, lived or died there. I asked for any other sons or daughters of Cork city out of interest.

  • Appledore

    Sorry – I should not have suggested you did.

    I don’t know the answer to your question but I do know Fiona Shaw and she was born and raised in the city.

  • Davros

    Cheers Appledore.

    One thing I’ll raise – In the past Connacht was regarded as the reservoir of a pure Irish culture, as the North , East and South were deemed to have been more corrupted by outside influences. Does the choice of Cork mean that Ireland has moved on from
    Irish Culture = Rural and Gaelic ?

  • PS

    Depends how you look on culture. Personally I’d rather spend a night listening to a folk band in a small rural pub rather than watching a play in a city threatre but it’s horses for courses.

  • Davros

    Small rural pub , with or without the band will do me , especially if they allow smoking Paddy 😉

  • cg

    “Personally I’d rather spend a night listening to a folk band in a small rural pub rather than watching a play in a city threatre but it’s horses for courses.”

    AND

    “Small rural pub , with or without the band will do me , especially if they allow smoking Paddy ;)”

    Unsophisticated swine’s 😉

    One must immerse oneself in the culture of language before one can swim in the rhetoric of life 😉

  • maca

    Ah, culture me arse.
    Baytur and brassers,
    hooflers and gobshites,
    langers and jibbers,
    mullacker and knackers,
    codgers and hoors,
    triblers and stumers.
    Are ye well sir? Strawkhawlin’!
    Culture be damned!

    A first and certainly last poem by maca to celebrate Cork, City of Culchies … erm sorry, Culture.

  • George

    Davros,
    the title was changed from the original “City of Culture” to “Capital of Culture” so that in the future it no longer has be restricted to just a city. So it doesn’t have to be restricted to Cork city although that is the centre.

    The choice of Cork is simply because its application was deemed superior by the Council to those submitted by Limerick, Galway and Waterford.

    A bit like Liverpool being deemed superior to Belfast I suppose 🙂

  • Keith M

    George, I will make the retraction on you not knowing what you’re talking about, however nothing you have posted negates my basic point that the awarding of this title has more to do with it being handed out to each country in turn rather than on on merit.

  • George

    Thanks Keithm,
    I actually don’t disagree with your rotation point just the other points although I would be interested in hearing you offer a better method which ensures that everywhere gets a chance to host it rather than just those countries with the best arts infrastructure.

  • Appledore

    Keithm,

    I think your “basic point that the awarding of this title has more to do with it being handed out to each country in turn rather than on on merit” is missing the point. The goal of the “Captial of Culture” project is designed to “contribute to bringing the peoples of Europe together”, not to pick “the most” cultured city in Europe, a far easier task.

  • Keith M

    George “I would be interested in hearing you offer a better method which ensures that everywhere gets a chance to host it rather than just those countries with the best arts infrastructure.”. The way I would allocate the title, is for every country that is interested in hosting the event, choose their best city city. A neutral committe would examine all the bids, reducing the list to 6 to 10 best candidates, based on agreed criteria. These would then be put in a hat and a winner drawn.

  • George

    Keithm,
    “The way I would allocate the title, is for every country that is interested in hosting the event, choose their best city city. A neutral committe would examine all the bids, reducing the list to 6 to 10 best candidates, based on agreed criteria. These would then be put in a hat and a winner drawn.”

    That wouldn’t address the problem of it always going to the countries with the best arts infrastructure because the top countries would always win. Hardly for all Europeans so why should all Europeans pay for it?

    What happens now is based on merit too but it gives the opportunity for each country to be awarded the title.

    Ireland was given it in 2005 and Limerick, Galway, Waterford and Cork applied.

    An independent European panel then decided which city put the best application forward and plumped for Cork. If the arts scene here had to make the decision, they’d tear each other apart.

  • Babeygurl

    Appledore – winston roberts is my fella… i can’t believe youve included him in the list to show cork is a capital of culture, what a laugh! although he is an extremely cultured boy.