On The Line

Hugh Orde has met with the policing board. His job is on the line.
If wrong on this robbery he goes. The flip side – if Mr Adams and Mr McGuinness are wrong, will they go ?

Orde ‘identifies’ Northern robbers
Both nationalist SDLP and Democratic Unionist representatives of the authority emerged from a two-hour briefing at their Belfast headquarters convinced that detectives hunting the gang were on top of the investigation.

  • twinkilcooleywithcoxsdemesne

    In the case of Adams and McGuinness; Tolstoy best sums it up –

    “I know that most men…can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”

    Even if it is proven that it was the IRA that did it, they will simply go on denying it and, in that the Republican Movement has no other leaders of note, it will simply choose to go along with the fiction….

  • cg

    twinkilcooleywithcoxsdemesne (Louth man)

    I suppose you have evidence of the Republican Movements involvement

  • Beowulf

    I suppose you have evidence of the Republican Movements uninvolvement?

  • Beowulf

    Noninvolvement, rather.

  • JD

    The point is the lack of evidence, surely?

  • Beowulf

    Not in a speculative question, no. Are Republicans some super race that are beyond the speculation of us mere mortals?

  • Davros

    The point of the thread is surely that Orde has said he will go if proved wrong and will Adams and McGuinness go if they are proved wrong ?

  • JD

    Are Republicans some super race that are beyond the speculation of us mere mortals?

    Don’t be silly.

    I have no problem with speculation as such.

    I’m not too keen on speculation that loses sight of itself as speculation and passes itself off as fact.

  • Beowulf

    Sorry, my english is not so good. Could you show me where in this thread speculation was passed off as fact?

  • JD

    Could you show me where in this thread speculation was passed off as fact?

    It hasn’t occurred in this thread yet. There are many examples in other threads on Slugger of the kind of thing I am referring to.

    Maybe it is an ESL thing, but I was surprised by your somewhat bitter characterisation of Republicans as “a superhuman race” in response to my pointing out that your position is just as shaky due to a lack of evidence.

  • JD

    Could you show me where in this thread speculation was passed off as fact?

    It hasn’t occurred in this thread yet. There are many examples in other threads on Slugger of the kind of thing I am referring to.

    Maybe it is an ESL thing, but I was surprised by your somewhat bitter characterisation of Republicans as “a superhuman race” in response to my pointing out that your position is just as shaky due to a lack of evidence.

  • Henry94

    Orde is an appointed functionary of the British government. If he goes he will be replaced by another. It indicates a bit of an David Brent complex if he thinks his resignation will be an adequate response to the PNSI getting this wrong.

    I expect they will make arrests before the elections and the charges will eventually be either dropped or thrown out for lack of evidence.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Orde’s job is safe and he knows it. When he advised the Northern to change all their notes it was a de facto admission that the chances of his keystone outfit recovering any of the loot was more or less nil.
    There will be a state of perpetual limbo where there will be plenty of ‘intelligence’ and ‘sources’ but not much evidence or people convicted. It is not even a calculated gamble by Orde, just a rather dodgey slight of hand.

    At least when Flanigan threatened to go he promised to commit suicide live on TV, now there was a guy with a sense of occasion.

  • Davros

    Orde’s job is safe and he knows it.

    Finally, you concede that it was the IRA. Well done Pat.

  • séanna boy

    Is Hugh Orde going to resign before or after Ronnie Flanagan commits suicide? And if the poice are always right why are there innocent people in prison?

  • DerryTerry

    No time frame mentioned by this insider source and no evidence offered by anyone as to who robbed the bank.

    The least Alex Attwood, Joe Byrne or Hugh Orde should do is to provide us all with the briefing he provided the Policing Board with and then we can all make up our own minds.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘Finally, you concede that it was the IRA. Well done Pat.’

    Your logic sometimes bewilders me Davros, this time I find it disturbing. Let’s just call it another one of your unproven allegations LOL.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘Finally, you concede that it was the IRA. Well done Pat.’

    Your logic sometimes bewilders me Davros, this time I find it disturbing. Let’s just call it another one of your unproven allegations LOL.

  • J Kelly

    Its interesting that Alex Attwood a trained solicitor, not practising anymore, has taken the word of a police officer without testing it under the proper scrutiny of a court. Not many solicitors with any experience of the courts or the police in the north would take their word straight away.

    The policing board is made up of 19 people a number of them elected, some defeated, some refused to stand and ten appointed “independents” who now have this information that “can prove conclusively” the the IRA robbed the Northern who are they accountable to. The Policing Board should publish yesterdays briefing as they are supposed to be holding the PSNI to account on our behalf. Why shoud Dennis Bradley or Tom Kelly have the right to this information more than any of us. Unnaccountable policing is what we want the end of.

  • El Matador

    “Why shoud Dennis Bradley or Tom Kelly have the right to this information more than any of us. Unnaccountable policing is what we want the end of.”

    Well, Sinn Fein had the chance to sit on the policing board and report back on what they hear, but they turned it down. Can’t really complain then if they aren’t furnished with the information.

    Instead they handed their 2 seats to the DUP and Unionists- hardly helping the nationalist community. Makes you wonder their true agenda

  • Donnie

    Davros, in other threads you have stated that you refuse to believe anything scientists say as their research can be rigged. Yet you are prepared to make the leap of faith where the police are concerned. The prior policing organisation were a totally discredited organisation and after Stormontgate, Castlereagh etc. there is no reason for anyone, especially the nationalist community, to believe anything has changed.

    Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.

  • Davros

    Donnie, one is in academia , the other isn’t.

  • Davros

    Davros : ‘Finally, you concede that it was the IRA. Well done Pat.’

    Your logic sometimes bewilders me Davros, this time I find it disturbing.

    it’s a simple Linear progression Pat.

    Orde says his Job is on the line if it wasn’t the IRA.

    You say his job is safe.

    Therefore you must have accepted that the IRA did rob that Bank. If you don’t think the IRA robbed the bank then you would think his job was at risk.

    Q.E.D.

  • Donnie

    Davros,

    According to you one of these groups of people routinely fail to tell the truth and manipulate their evidence to match a preconceived outcome. Remind me how they differ again?!

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Davros,

    I think you need to read my 8.41am post again. You seem to be a tad confused.

    I believe Orde will not be able to prove or disprove who robbed the bank to any satisfactory degree. Thus we are in the state of limbo stated earlier.
    Of course we will get the line ‘we know who did it, but just can’t prove it’ or even ‘intelligence isn’t evidence’. Thus what we have is a perpetual state of limbo, Orde has no need to resign having neither proved or disproved anything.

    Your linear approach, was like your evidence on a lot of things, fatally flawed.

  • J Kelly

    Elmat its not SF complaining. I am not a member of any political party but as a member of the public with an interest in politics I just wondered why two other members of the public are entitled to more information than me. I suppose its a wider point of accountability of who are the so called independents on the PB accountable to. The person who appointed them was the British Secretary of State so are they accountable to him. One could could argue that he who pays the piper calls the tune.

    At least the elected representatives have to face elections but of course if they dont want to or get defeated they still stay on the PB. Accountability at its best.

  • DerryTerry

    Will Alex, Joe or Tom Kelly tell Mark Durkan what was in the briefing? Will he then tell us? Will anyone tell John Hume?

    IMO no one on the Policing Board, and particularly not the independents who are supposed to be representing me, should have access to this “evidence” when the rest of us don’t.

    If there is any evidence let us see it, and if there isn’t say so. Either the PSNI should get on with the investigation or they should tell us that this old evidence craic is too much bother and we should just go on police opinions. Human Rights were are you?