Heist raises previously unaskable questions?

Malachi O’Doherty, argues that there is no reason why Sinn Fein cannot do well in May’s elections, with or without widespread credibility; given the dysfunctional oppositional challenge (heretofore) of the SDLP. Even so, its representatives may have to get used to being asked some difficult questions.

  • Sharp Voter

    Malachi how is it that you cannot, even for one second, contemplate the notion that the IRA did not rob the Northern Bank? Why is it that you are happy to take the word of Hugh Orde with no evidence to back it up?
    We have all seen British governments manipulate any situation to their own ends. You point out that MI5 was manipulated by Blair to say that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq then why is it that you cannot imagine the same British government manipulation Orde into saying that it was the IRA?
    Good journalism requires a sceptic eye and should not be blinded by prejudices.

  • Davros

    Good journalism requires a sceptic eye and should not be blinded by prejudices.

    News reporting should be objective. Not all journalism is News reporting – this piece is carried in “features” and as such is an expression of opinion, to which O’Doherty is surely entitled ?

  • mickhall

    Sharp voter,

    Are you saying that the British government is now working to undermine the GFA and if so why would they do so? This seems to me to be a giant step from blaming it all on the securocrats who ever they may be.

  • Sharp Voter

    Mickhall
    Just think about it for a moment. The Brits wanted to force certain actions from Republicans but they did not get their way. Through blaming them for the robbery they are hoping to put pressure on republicans to deliver to the British agenda.

  • DCB

    SV

    Even Martin Mansergh thinks the Provos most probably did it. He’s nobodys fool.

  • willowfield

    Sharp Voter

    Why should Malachi believe serial liar Gerry Adams and self-confessed terrorist godfather before the Chief Constable?

    Why would the Government want to undermine its own policy by deliberately and wrongly blaming the PIRA, thus scuppering any chances of power-sharing?

  • mickhall

    sharpe voter,

    I feel you may be mistaken as to the Brits wishing to force certain actions from Republicans. The general feeling is that the British did get their way on decommissioning, it was over the manner in which it was to be carried out that the differences arose. In all probability a way around this could/would/will have been found after the May elections. What have the British to gain by sabotaging their own agreement? As I said SF has not only conceded decommissioning but PIRA has already carried it out in front of witnesses twice. So I do not feel your argument holds up.

    You see the questing SF is failing to answer is why would the southern government and Blair sabotage an agreement they have invested so much in. It really is all Blair has got to show for his premiership.

  • Oilbhéar Chromaill

    I see it as part of a power struggle within governments between those who want a just settlement and those who want a victory over the IRA. – there’s an ebb and flow between these elements and this is the reason for the changeable relationship.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Malachai it seems is prepared to believe the head of an organisation with a history of lying and perjury against that of the head of an organisation which itself has a history of not telling the truth.

    The interesting point is how did he make the call.

  • davidbrew

    Let’s assume Pat is correct in placing the word of the PSNI and the IRA on a level, no matter how bizarre that seems. Let’s even assume every journalist outside An Phoblacht has swallowed the line of the 2 Governments ( not quite so bizarre). Let’s even assume that some strange concoction of securocrats, rejectionists and people who happen not to like Gerry Adams have set him up. So what?

    The fact remains that for a short time at least the Provos are behind the 8 ball, and they don’t know how to get out of the “trap”. if the governments have decided to cut them adrift, well that’s politics, and every Unionist knows the feeling of being isolated or bypassed. The Provos have to adapt to the new circumstances, or they’ll be left behind-even the DUP has avoided being left standing in this games of musical chairs- and best of all for the political process the only card the provos have left- the threat of going back to violence ( Martin’s ” dangerous ground” warning) is something that they cannot use without throwing away most of the goodies they’ve been given since 1996.

    Clearly HMG has agreed with Dublin that it’s now time to put the squeeze on the Shinners, and they can’t stand the heat. Did anyone really think Bertie was going to let this shower hold the balance of power in the South? Of course the bank bobbery is being hyped up by opponents of Sinn Fein- but it’s only their greed and stupidity that presented the people in charge of the process with such a golden opportunity, so they will get no sympathy.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    The only thing that is not bizarre David is the fact that you have not addressed the point, preferring to go off on one of your little journeys.
    The point was made that the organisation Orde leads has a history of lying and perjury, obviously that embarrasses you, just get over it.

    What really matters in this scenario is the nationalist electorate and who they believe. Don’t be too surprised come may.

  • Davros

    I see it as part of a power struggle within governments between those who want a just settlement and those who want a victory over the IRA.

    Can you suggest some names within the British Government who are opposing Blair on this ?
    One would be a start.

    Fantasy OC.

  • Ringo

    Pat –

    What really matters in this scenario is the nationalist electorate and who they believe. Don’t be too surprised come may.

    Sad but true. And we moan about all the ‘dumb Yanks’ who swallow all Dubya’s bullshit and turn up to vote for him in their droves.

  • Ringo

    Just to clarify – I’m equating the Sinn Fein strategy with the Bush strategy – appeal to the base, ignore the rest.

  • davidbrew

    “The only thing that is not bizarre David is the fact that you have not addressed the point, preferring to go off on one of your little journeys”

    the point, like the Provos’ political ambitions since the robbery, as I said is irrelevant, and no amount of you and the other Shinner apologists throwing your toys out of the pram will change that. The more you blub, the more you’ll be ignored, and the more the Army Council will come under pressure to go back to what they do best.Enjoy your just desserts.

  • mickhall

    DavidBrew wrote,
    “The more you blub, the more you’ll be ignored, and the more the Army Council will come under pressure to go back to what they do best.Enjoy your just desserts.”

    David,
    I do not quite see where you are coming from in this post. (see above) How would this help the situation in the north move forward? I am somewhat puzzled by your joy.

  • Jimmy Sands

    “appeal to the base”

    In every sense.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Rinog

    ‘Sad but true. And we moan about all the ‘dumb Yanks’ who swallow all Dubya’s bullshit and turn up to vote for him in their droves.’

    Can identify with that, afterall nationalists watched aghast as unionists voted in droves for arch bigot Paisley for decades.

    David,

    ‘The more you blub, the more you’ll be ignored, and the more the Army Council will come under pressure to go back to what they do best.Enjoy your just desserts.’

    Sorry David, the only people doing what they do best are unionists who are going back to the days of bigotry and failure to behave in a proper democratic fashion, dressed up as exclusion.

    The point made earlier is that nationalist voters have been lied to by the police for decades. Incidents witnessed by locals were unrecognisable after the police had fed their lies to the media. People will weigh that up and decide who is the lesser of the two liars. The police and others are being judged on past misdeeds.
    Just as I don’t expect unionists to forget 30 yrs of experiences, thus I wouldn’t like unionists to expect anything different of nationalists.
    Come the election nationalists are going to judge your police force and i’ve a funny feeling your blood pressure will be at popping point come May.

    That indeed will be your just desserts.

  • alex s

    Pat, is this the same Hugh Orde who the Shinners met with at Downing Street, his credibility was okay then?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Alex s,

    Orde is merely at the top of a very corrupt pyramid, i am less interested in him as a personality rather the force he leads.

  • James

    “There is, of course, the huge risk that if the SDLP went in with the DUP “ that the rains of frogs and flying pigs would blot out the sun and plunge the planet into a Nuclear Winter.

    Man oh man, would the Greens ever be pissed.

    Another couple years with the Governator is stating to look mighty good.

  • davidbrew

    “People will weigh that up and decide who is the lesser of the two liars. The police and others are being judged on past misdeeds.”

    But not apparently the Shinners. They have lied to their own community on numerous occasions and killed many more of their own community than the RUC or Army. Yet strangely, they seem to exercise you less. Why do you suppose that would be?

    “Come the election nationalists are going to judge your police force and i’ve a funny feeling your blood pressure will be at popping point come May.”

    Well actually I think the election will on be the same old issues with the same old outcome. If nationalists decide to give an overwhelming endorsement to SF they’ll still be excluded from active participation in power until they divorce from their criminal wing- but excluded by themselves, which is the key point. That gives the government the problem of direct rule for the forseeable future, or moving on in a different way, and more opportunities to roll back the Agreement (which answers Mickhall’s point)

    The only thing popping in my house in May will be champagne corks after the obliteration of the UUP

  • willowfield

    Poor Pat. So desperate to defend the Provos.

    One wonders why he goes to such lengths when he isn’t even a supporter.