Heist makes Paisley believeable

The Guardian’s leader on Saturday, declares that at the very least Hugh Orde’s pointing of fingers may lead many to believe that Ian Paisley was right about Sinn Fein after all.

…it is a reminder of the deep rootedness of a degree of armed criminality in Irish political life, north and south of the border, which even a completely united Ireland would no longer prevent. Tens of thousands of people will to vote for Sinn Féin this year, as they did last year. Their votes are entitled to respect, and other parties – and the British government – are bound to continue to look for safe compromises and common ground with them. But respect for their party is another matter. Those who continue to vote for Sinn Féin should think about what they are doing. If nothing else, they have achieved the improbable feat of making decent people listen to the Democratic Unionist party and wonder whether Ian Paisley may have been right after all.

  • Keith M

    It doesn’t get much better for the DUP. The Guardian paying grudging tribute to Paisley, who’d have thought that would ever happen?

    I bet the DUP would like the election to come next week!

  • J Kelly

    I dont think SF would mind the election next week either.

  • Ringo

    What next? Sinn Fein proved right about Paisley all along?

  • smcgiff

    ‘…it is a reminder of the deep rootedness of a degree of armed criminality in Irish political life, north and south of the border, which even a completely united Ireland would no longer prevent.’

    South of the Border – WTF?!?

  • Fraggle

    It looks like evidence, one way or another, is on it’s way. The tele report an arrest in Craigavon involving a huge wad of NB 100s.

  • Henry94

    Martin McGuinness said today that whoever carried out the robbery was hostile to the peace process and Sinn Fein’s agenda.

  • Davros

    South of the Border – WTF?!?

    Why the surprise ?

  • smcgiff

    ‘Why the surprise ?’

    Why the agreement?

  • IJP

    Martin McGuinness said today that whoever carried out the robbery was hostile to the peace process and Sinn Fein’s agenda.

    This is interesting.

    If genuine (a big ‘if’), it means that SF has no control whatsoever of the IRA. Never mind whether it has the ‘will’, it turns out it doesn’t even have the ‘capability’.

    Surely the logical next move would be for SF to commit itself to democracy, break off from the IRA, join the policing board in order the develop a more effective, legitimate force to contain the IRA (and other such mafia organizations), and stop doing the IRA’s bidding (e.g. Colombia, McCabe)?

    But who mentioned ‘logic’, eh?

  • smcgiff

    There’s one big problem with that suggestion, IJP, can you imagine anyone taking the assertion by SF that they had completely broken away from the IRA? They’ve been trying to claim this for a long time.

    The establishment themselves want there to be a connection between the IRA and SF. That way they can keep an eye on them and assume there is some control over the IRA.

    I agree though, it did look as if MMcG is suggesting that IF ‘someone’ within or even the full IRA themselves were responsible (not that he’d know of course) SF had no idea.

  • Davros

    Why the agreement?

    Are you saying there isn’t armed criminality south of the Border ?

  • smcgiff

    ‘Are you saying there isn’t armed criminality south of the Border ?’

    There’s a huge difference between what you’re asking and the slur stated in the guardian, ‘the deep rootedness of a degree of armed criminality in Irish political life … south of the border’

    In fact your question is totally different. One refers to criminal activity, the other criminal activity in political life.

  • Davros

    Thanks smcgiff, that’s what I wanted to know, I see what you mean now. Could it be argued that it’s fair comment although it should have been stressed that the degree is far less in the ROI ?

  • Davros

    Meanwhile, business as usual in the North ?

    Provos blamed as man shot in hands

  • smcgiff

    I’m sure there is a link between those that carry out post office/bank robberies etc in the ROI and paramilitary organisations. Garda MacCabe is a painful example. But, the grunts of these organisations are criminals and in my opinion if the IRA went away in the morning the same level of robberies would continue, only under a different umbrella.

    In the same way there are robberies in the UK. Are there more robberies in the ROI because the IRA etc exist? I don’t believe there is much evidence to suggest this. There’s currently a well organised club to work within at the moment for sure. But, does it really affect, (Garda MacCabe excepted), Irish political life? I don’t think so. NI, for sure affects the political life of the ROI, but so too does it affect GB.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Davros, really Jim Rogers, the man is despised in the Strand so the likelihood of residents telling him anything is remote.

  • Davros

    Oh aye Pat, so nowadays gangs of UDA or UVF men carry out these sorts of attacks in Short Strand ?

  • Davros

    But, does it really affect, (Garda MacCabe excepted), Irish political life?

    I know this won’t be popular, so apologies Henry and Pat, but remember which is the richest party in the ROI, and that a TD of that Party phoned Gardai to check if his election agent was one of those banged up….

  • Mario

    IJP

    If genuine (a big ‘if’), it means that SF has no control whatsoever of the IRA.

    I couldnt agree with you more. I think that Mr Mcguiness’ statement could be the begining of the break between SF and the IRA. He is clearly stating that they have a different agenda and can break away from those who differ from it.

    I can not beleive that SF still has links to the IRA. Surely, they must see after The IRISH PM statement that this relationship is political suicide.

    Could it be that SF are afraid of them? Or that the IRA still has more support among the grassroots than people would care to admit such a disturbing thing.

  • GavBelfast

    What more would you expect from those at The Guardian – damned left-wing, intellectual, pinko Securocrats that they are?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘Oh aye Pat, so nowadays gangs of UDA or UVF men carry out these sorts of attacks in Short Strand ?’

    The S Strand shooting was obviously carried out by a republican organisation, there are about 5 such organisations operating in the S Strand. I merely make the point that I believe Rodgers is lying in his statement. He is despised in the Strand and would not have any contact with people able to state categorically who was responsible.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Why are you apologising to me Davros?

  • Davros

    Why are you apologising to me Davros?

    Because deep, deep,deep down I think you (and Henry) are decent lads 😉

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Oh thanks for that vote of confidence in my character, you’ll be advising me how to vote next a la Roy Beggs.

  • Davros

    Gads Pat, I wouldn’t vote for him, why would you ?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘It looks like evidence, one way or another, is on it’s way. The tele report an arrest in Craigavon involving a huge wad of NB 100s.’

    Sorry Fraggle, as the call girl said to be bishop,’ you’re a little premature there son.’

  • Bean Nighe

    The Rev Ian Paisley’s not the kind of man who would throw stones at anyone, or sit in judgment on anyone, he is, after all, a Christian.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Mario, SF and the IRA are joined at the hip, rather than being two separate organizations with a close relationship. In practice this makes their separation more difficult, but possible.

    The other reason is because SF have been able to use the IRA link to extract concessions for their supporters from the political process, ably assisted by the demands of unionists who hype silly requests about things like decommissioning to the point where a positive response to those requests seems like an act of generosity and kindness, drawing international and domestic sympathy to their “peace strategy”. If SF weren’t linked to the IRA this wouldn’t be possible.

    A separation would transform the dynamic of the process. The link between SF and the IRA would now be the same as the link between the UUP and the UVF, or between the DUP and Ulster Resistance. Requests such as “prove that you’ve truly turned your backs on your old friends in the IRA by having them named and arrested” can easily be countered with “prove you’ve turned your back on your old pals in the Ulster Resistance by having them named and arrested”. We could then hopefully start seeing joint initiatives to secure the removal of the more stubborn paramilitary stains.

    Pat, agreed about Jim Rodgers. About a year ago some loyalist organization put someone in the N’Ards Road area out of their house, and Jim comes along to say “these people must desist”. When the IRA are involved, it’s broken ceasefires, demands for arrests, public floggings and all the rest. I wish unionists were capable of consistency, but on the whole they’re just as bad as republicans.

  • Mario

    Thanks Roger, it makes a bit more sense to me now.

    Do you interpret Mr McGuinness’ statement as an initial step to hip replacement surgery? Why is Mr. Mguinness the one in the forefront? I guess I have not seen much from Mr. Adams. A change in leadership?

  • Henry94

    Roger

    Martin McGuinness tonight asked Ahern and Blair to put their evidence to himself and Adams in private.

    I thought that was interesting in that it could (if convincing) clear the way for the Sinn Fein leaders to say the IRA had misled them. Far-fetched but it’s interesting to speculate.

    A split would mean the project of bring about an end to armed republicanism had failed and Sinn Fein would be going the De Valera route. The political process would be saved but the peace process would probably fail.

    It’s a bleak scenario.

  • smcgiff

    ‘A split would mean the project of bring about an end to armed republicanism had failed and Sinn Fein would be going the De Valera route. The political process would be saved but the peace process would probably fail.’

    I do have sympathy with this view, Henry.