Paisley: we will not 'jump first'!

Ian Paisley has told the BBC that his party cannot say yes to government proposals until Sinn Fein indicates it will abide by the same conditions. Clearly he is wary of being caught in the same compromised position as David Trimble last October. Is this the deal breaker? And if so, who will take the rap?

However, he also suggested that if the IRA “gave up its weapons and abandoned its criminal activity” he would “have to do a good deal of swallowing. I’ll have to do a good deal of biting my lip in future days.”

  • stephen nicholl

    Half crown before crown for big Ian and the boys.

    Giving MP’s/MEP’s the right to represent their consituents in the Dail is all we need. Martin and Gerry debating education, policing, health in the Dail representing their constituents.

    Roll on the whinging little Dup puppets trying to rationalise this one.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    If thats the fig leaf he requires Adams et all shoud give him the guarantee he requires.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    This is quite remarkable in that it is the first indication Paisley has given that he anticipates actually sitting in government with SF once certain things are in place.

  • alex s

    From Paisley’s ‘sackcloth and ashes’ remarks and un-reported remarks from Sammy Wilson the DUPes may well be looking for a way out.

  • ShayPaul

    Asa an exit strategy it is very weak, but then leading from the back is always easier than from the front.

    Will Dr No swallow his sword and his bowler without choking himself .. ?

    This one will run and run …..

  • ShayPaul

    As an exit strategy it is very weak, but then leading from the back is always easier than from the front.

    Will Dr No swallow his sword and his bowler without choking himself .. ?

    This one will run and run …..

  • ShayPaul

    Sorry about the double post … getting some weird feedback from truetype ?

  • ShayPaul

    Mick

    Did he actually say “we will not jump first” ?

  • Davros

    Paisley’s sackcloth and ashes remarks in context -never quoted by SF and it’s supporters- were perfectly proper and would I suspect be supported by the vast majority of unionists and possibly not a few nationalists as well.

    The hysteria over the remarks would indicate that if anybody is looking for a way out it’s Gerry.

  • ShayPaul

    Davros

    The terms sackcloth and ashes are not standard diplomatic speak. Adams replies were restrained and to be expected, making Dr No look like the big mouth he is.

    You could hardly call them “hysteria” more like focused to show that Dr No had put his foot in it again.

    As a british nationalist yourself, I suppose this is the constituency you are referring to.

    You have already claimed that Dr No is not the voice of Unionism, but declaring yourself the voice of “Nationalism” is pushing it a little too far.

  • Henry94

    Can’t both parties write to the governments accepting the terms and have the letters dated and delivered at the same time.

    Then the PMs could announce the deal and we could get on with it.

    stephen nicholl

    Giving MP’s/MEP’s the right to represent their consituents in the Dail is all we need.

    Well not all but it’s a good start.

  • ShayPaul

    Now the Lundy parade is over, maybe Dr No can say yes ?

  • Davros

    Come on Shay- post the relevent words, not just the second half.Very few people I know, people such as myself who want the deal as well as those opposed, would disagree.

    It’s all one-way. Somehow It’s “wrong ” for Paisley to make a perfectly valid point about parity , and yet SF are still trailing the corpses of those allegedly killed because of collusion around the world. All very different if we mention the disappeared or those exiled by PIRA, ain’t it Shay ? The collusion is up for discussion, but Gerry nearly laid an egg when a journalist had the temerity to dare ask him about the Murderers of Jerry McCabe.

    If you want bluntness, SF either over-played their hand ( and it was undiplomatic of them not to have shelved Collusion while the negotiations were taking place) or they think that people are so desperate to get a deal that they can say and do what they like but still cry “foul” when they are pressured or they have been looking for ways out if all their demands aren’t conceded.

  • Davros

    Over to you ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • ShayPaul

    Davros

    Smoke and mirrors again ?

    Why do you always clutch at the whataboutery straw rather than keeping on thread ?

    Dr No, the voice of Unionism is at it again putting his foot in his oversized mouth.

    If you want me to quote the clown we’ll be here all night.

    His sectarian ravings are of no interest to me at all.

    Here is my opinion :

    The deal is done, it’s on the table.

    Now it’s make your mind up time.

    Put up or shut up.

    I pray for this generation, and those to come, that the DUPes and SF sign on the dotted line and we move away from violence and sectarianism and forward to realpolitik and a better future for everyone be they white, black, yellow, green or orange.

    Over to you :o)

  • ShayPaul

    16

  • Davros

    Shay, by running away from my challenge you prove my point ๐Ÿ™‚

    Paisleys comments were absolutely fine.
    You responded to my on-thread reply to alex s.
    Now you get snarky because I dare respond to your whinge ?

  • ShayPaul

    Davros

    Man not ball

    If you’re looking for a fist fight, go look for a DUPe.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Henry94’s suggestion is simple and elegant, and is exactly what is needed here.

    Personally I think anyone wanting a chap who said “don’t come running to me if they burn you out of your houses” to police officers during enforcement of a parade rerouting would have to do a hell of a lot of swallowing.

    Davros, I think SF’s initial reaction looked like signs of stress. They’ve since issued a much more measured assessment of the comments – Adams has described the remarks as a “grudging acceptance” of SF’s mandate (here.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII
  • Davros

    Shay – it’s a bit late for you to cry man not ball after you clattered in with your studs showing ๐Ÿ™‚

    Post the both parts of the Paisley remarks and I’ll forgive you.

  • alex s

    Davros, you referred to the context of the sackcloth and ashes remark by Paisley, was it not the big man himself who days earlier was at pains not to say anything in case he upset the ‘applecart’

  • Davros

    That seems like fair comment Roger.

    Parity.

    Paisley’s remarks from the past ? OK , Let’s dig up the Brownie remarks by Adams and lets see if we can find what Iris R said in the House about La Mon.

    Parity.

    SF want sackcloth and ashes for the security forces, then the IRA should also wear sackcloth and ashes.

    Parity.

    If Collusion is going to be used in the negotiating process to claim some form of moral high ground then let’s also discuss the disappeared and the exiled and the victims of the IRA.

  • Davros

    Alex, from what I remember the comments by Paisley were made in response to another SF PR stunt over Collusion ? As I wrote before, SF should have put the collusion issue on the back-boiler while this was being addressed. Can you imagine if the DUP negotiating team had staged a stunt with the family of Jean McConville and the family of Gerry McCabe on their way to the negotiations to remind people of what moral ground SF/IRA occupy ?

    Nobody denies that there’s a LOT of dirty linen that could be aired. It’s a bit rich of the Shinners to think that they can demand that only they can do any airing. Parity.

  • ShayPaul

    We’ll soon know if the DUPes are looking for the exit.

    Dr No will step back and let Robinson play that one out.

    Dr No can sell a deal.

    Too dangerous to let him do the more delicate job of leaving SF carrying the can.

    His rhetoric would get the better of him and leave Unionists carrying the can in the eyes of the world.

  • alex s

    Davros, I agree with your thread, however I still thing the DUPes are looking for a way out, hope I am wrong

  • Davros

    We are probably both wrong alex ๐Ÿ˜‰

    This is interesting- if true, looks as if Paisley could be vindicated.

    The IRA has not contacted disarmament inspectors despite the looming deadline for reaching a Northern Ireland peace deal, Democratic Unionist Party leader Ian Paisley claimed.

    Sinn Fein accused of deal delay

  • ShayPaul

    Well this is another version :

    The IRA had not yet given the general a detailed account of its plans.

    Davros :

    Nice to see you defending the true voice of Unionism.

  • alex s

    Looking at this from the Shinners point of view, why not let hold fire, excuse the pun, let the current talks run aground, blame the DUPes and do a deal over weapons/demilitarisation with the British, they won’t demand ‘sack cloth and ashes’ and might even kick-start the assembley with their own, Shinner influenced changes?

  • peteb

    Well, the one constant so far, alex, has been SF blaming the DUP.

  • alex s

    Petab,who else will they blame under the circumstances I described?

  • ShayPaul

    peteb

    Who’s blaming the DUPes ?

    They haven’t done anything to be blamed on, in fact they haven’t done anything period.

    That’s the problem.

  • peteb

    alex

    I was just suggesting that such a strategy could be argued to have been in place for some time.

  • ShayPaul

    The haven’t even talked to SF.

    I think they have a little to learn about conflict resolution.

    Get real.

  • alex s

    peteb, hard to say, but it must be their fall back position, on the other hand if the DUPes can deflect the blame (among the unionist community) this scenario could also suit them, they get the assembley without having to make any commitment to work with the Shinners.

  • peteb

    alex

    I would certainly agree, but it would only be a temporary win-win situation (for their own party-political reasons with elections looming).. and that wouldn’t be a very stable Assembly.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Davros,

    What are you on about. The people demanding sackcloth and ashes are the DUP, when they’re not really in any position to make any judgements about anybody. SF for their part don’t seem to be doing that – despite Paisley’s past they don’t seem to be placing any conditions on sharing power with him. Any idea why ?

  • Davros

    Nice to see you defending the true voice of Unionism.

    Shay, I call it as I see it. I have also stood up for Alex Maskey, G O hEara and Bobby Sands.

    Petulance doesn’t suit you.

    Paisley’s comments have been misrepresented and I notice you haven’t addressed the explanations I gave about SF dragging Collusion into this at every chance yet crying foul when parity is demanded.

  • Davros

    The people demanding sackcloth and ashes are the DUP etc

    Paisleys sackcloth remarks were a return on an attack on the security forces aimed at the IRA …
    not SF ๐Ÿ˜‰ If Gerry feels he’s being humiliated, is he finally owning up to membership ?

  • alex s

    petab, do the DUPes want stability, every election they have ever fought has been fought on the same ground, ‘Vote DUP Save the Union’, can the DUPes afford to save it?

  • ShayPaul

    Petulance doesn’t suit you.

    Man not ball, grow out of it davros.

    Dr No can’t help himself this rhetoric is the real him.

    Unionism will just have to assume the choice of Dr No as their voice, and also assume the consequences when he starts to drivel.

    No for the real issue, will he say yes or won’t he ?

    Is he capable of making a deal ?

    If he won’t jump first, will he jump at all ?

    You guys voted for him, let’s see how you read it …

  • Davros

    Sorry Shay — the feeling is that we jumped first too mant times before , and the promised decommissioning never arrived ๐Ÿ™‚ This time your lot will have to jump first.

  • Davros

    Shay, do you think SF should be criticised for this at a delicate time ?

    ‘Killings’ conference provokes MEP storm

  • ShayPaul

    Davros

    This thread is about the peace process and Paisley jumping first.

    I am utterly amazed that you manage to exchange on average 3 posts before referring to La Mon, Bloody friday, McConville etc. Your last post is another attempt to spoil the debate and it is very tiring.

    If you feel that you are correct in treating political opponents as terrorists or terrorist apologists when the debate gets tough then I am very disappointed.

    Please use your obvious intelligence in a more constructive manner.

    Violence is not the way forward, we are engaged at present in a peace process, the thread relates to the capacity of Dr No to say yes.

    I have long believed and repeatedly stated that peace is made between enemies , not friends ( A great man said something to that effect) that is what makes it hard.

    I hope and pray, that we are in the end game of the peace process, and that we will be able to move on together to create a better place for this and future generations.

    I have my doubts as to the capacity of Dr No to say yes and to suppress the demons of sectarianism that haunt the man.

    I firmly believe that a United Irish Republic is the best political vehicle to achieve the prosperity, peace and security that the people of this island need and deserve. I am well aware that others have other opinions.

    I respect those opinions and will continue to work to try to persuade my opponents that they are wrong.

    Enjoy the rest of your weekend :0)

  • ShayPaul

    We’ll soon know if the DUPes are looking for the exit.

    Dr No will step back and let Robinson play that one out.

    Dr No can sell a deal.

    Too dangerous to let him do the more delicate job of leaving SF carrying the can.

    His rhetoric would get the better of him and leave Unionists carrying the can in the eyes of the world.

    Posted by: ShayPaul at December 4, 2004 08:01 PM

    Hate to sayI told you so.

  • Davros

    See- a tantrum because I step outside of your comfort zone.

    Face facts man. SF’s upper echelons are riddled with terrorists, JBB and JBROI.

    Like it or not, SF and the IRA have over-played their hand in the past. This time they will have to jump first. Promising that “good things will follow from the IRA” no longer works.

    And It’s amusing that you won’t address the issue I raise – if you think diplomacy and tact are needed then you should be criticising SF for their trailing dead bodies around Brussels.

    Imagine the hysterics if the DUP confronted Gerry with the Widow of Jerry McCabe and the Family of
    Jean McConville…. there’s the rub. It’s one-way.

  • ShayPaul

    See a Tantrum

    Ball not man

  • Davros

    Face the issues rather than seek excuses to avoid them Shay.

  • ShayPaul

    Ball not man

    Sad

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Paisleys sack cloth and ashes routine was very much aimed at his own constituency. Adams et al obviously spotted that and were remarkably restrained in the circumstances. The temptation to retaliate in kind must have been irresistable, so credit is due to Adams in attempting to avoid an unseemly dose of whataboutery.

  • Davros

    Pat – that’s amusing as SF are mounting the biggest exercise in whataboutery ever seen in Brussels.

    You want a one sided amnesty.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Davros,

    to even attempt to reply to your post would in itself be an exercise on the subject.

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Paisleys sackcloth remarks were a return on an attack on the security forces aimed at the IRA, not SF

    Huh ? Are we on the same planet ? For a start, at the risk of stating the bleedin’ obvious, Paisley regards SF and the IRA as the same thing.

    Secondly in the context the remark there was made there were no comments about the security forces or anyone else. In my interpretation of the English language he was basically saying “these people are scum but unfortunately I’ll have to deal with them”. There was nothing about security forces or anything else in there.

    You must have to go to a lot of effort to read things into people’s statements that aren’t there.

  • Davros

    Roger – The statement by Paisley was fair and reflects the thoughts of most of the unionist community. I suspect that after SF’s behaviour over the murderers of Jerry McCabe , if it had been made by anybody else except Paisley a lot of people in the ROI would also agree.