Paisley amazed IRA has not met de Chastellaine

Ian Paisley is ‘wondering out loud‘ why the governments are pushing a timeline when the IRA hasn’t yet met with General John de Chastellaine. Meanwhile the SDLP backs the DUP call for the decommissioning to be photographed.

Update: DUP no intention of being ‘Trimbled’!

  • ShayPaul

    Well this is another version :

    The IRA had not yet given the general a detailed account of its plans.

    May have to hear the Generals’ version ?

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    I’m wondering out loud why Paisley hasn’t met SF, even if just to tell them he’s not going into government with them.

  • Davros

    Cruel, Cruel : The Emerson picture of Wm McCrea and Billy Wright against Union Flag, Bubbles from mouths

    McCrea : ” I don’t talk to Terrorists “
    Wright : ” Then sing to me baby”.

  • alex s

    the book is a great buy

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Peter Robinson said a few weeks ago that the DUP would engage with loyalists if it would help things.

    What about engaging with the republicans now that we seem to be about 95% of the way to what could prove to be a lasting political settlement ?

  • Davros

    what could prove to be a lasting political settlement

    That’s another problem 🙂 Some see it as a transitional settlement before a certain centenary
    anniversary….

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    “lasting” doesn’t mean “final”. More “durable”.

  • Liam

    Davros

    That’s another problem 🙂 Some see it as a transitional settlement before a certain centenary anniversary….

    Whereas you would prefer a ‘permanent’ (unionist)settlement?

    A lasting peace is what is possible, and that is the prize that Mr. Paisley should be striving for!

    If not, why not?

  • Davros

    you would prefer a ‘permanent’ (unionist)settlement?

    For as long as a majority in my beloved Ulster [tips wink to cavanman on other thread ;)]want it, yes Liam.

    As I have remarked before, a working and fair NI is SF’s nightmare. Once up and running properly even more RCs will support continuance of the Union than at present. That’s why IMO the top ranks of SF are making life as difficult for the Unionist politicians as they can over use of photographs and phrases such as “The War is Over”. They don’t want a fair deal. They either want an unfair deal or they want the collapse to look as if was all the other side’s fault.

  • ShayPaul

    Davros

    Anyone who claims that they are looking for a fair deal for all, whilst at the same time refusing to talk to the elected representatives from the other side is talking bullshit.

    As for this mysterious army of RC’s that are secret unionists, you should stop reading the fairy stories before you go to bed.

    This sectarian diatribe fools no-one.

    A stable NI will only come about when Unionists grow up and embrace change, equality and fairness at all times and not only when it suits them, by that time we’ll already be in a United Irish Republic anyway.

    It’s just a shame that they aren’t a little quicker to catch on, but then that’s life.

    When you live in the dark and they feed you bullshit all your life, I guess it is inevitable that you become a political mushroom.

  • Davros

    Shay your mask slips when you betray your hatred of those RCs who support the union 🙂

    I agree the DUP are hypocrites for refusing to talk to the IRA in the shape of senior SF reps, just as SF are hypocrites for refusing to take their seats in Westminster. But they are mandated, so you and I both are insulting the voters who support the DUP and SF.

  • Davros

    On this issue Paisley is right. Unionists have trusted Adams “do what we want and good things from the IRA will follow” before and been let down.

  • ShayPaul

    Shay your mask slips when you betray your hatred of those RCs who support the union 🙂

    Man not ball as usual, try harder to stay on thread.

    For your information junior, I do not hate anyone.

    As for trust, whilst the IRA guns are silent, the “loyalist” hoods continue their sectarian games and unionism disowns the “nasty fellows” they created. That’s the height of pure hypocrisy.

    Dr No given lessons to anyone about violence, hatred, democracy is the essence of pure hypocrisy.

    The true voice of true Unionism has spoken, and the death nell of the Union rings loud with the voice.

    The times they are a changin ….

  • Davros

    Sorry Shay, you are about as convincing as Gerry with his denials 🙂

  • ShayPaul

    Man not ball.

  • ShayPaul

    What is most amazing, is that Dr No is amazed.

    2 hypotheses:

    1. He is thick and really amazed that the IRA will not do the nuts and bolts of the deal before he signs on.

    2. He thinks the rest of us are thick enough to believe the same.

    He really will have to learn to respect other people.

    Could be a long process …

  • Davros

    Any side who claim that THEY are looking for a fair deal for all while trying to browbeat the opposition
    are being dishonest. I mean , heavens, imagine anybody having the temerity to point out that it’s hypocritical of SF to trail the families of alleged victims of state collusion around while trying to suppress discussion of La Mon ( Gerry named in Parliament ) or the murder of Jerry McCabe…

  • ShayPaul

    Wow, davros mentioned La Mon again.

    496

  • Roger W. Christ XVII

    Davros, if in this day and age you are still worried about people you class as “RCs” do or do not support, then I’m afraid you’ve lost the plot already. What the hell does people’s religion have to do with it ?

  • ShayPaul

    “Trimbled”

    Got to hand it to him, one of the best laughs to come out of the process so far.

  • Davros

    Roger – demographics is the answer:)

  • aquifer

    IRA decommissioning is the Governments’ problem, not Paisley’s. He is flapping, so what is new.

    Paisley condemns; Chief Constable, UUP leader, Prime Minister, etc etc. Was this ever news or was this just someone for whom events were always out of control?

  • James

    This is absurd. Poor old DeChastelain, he wishes he was in Mitchell’s shoes, making cartoons instead of starring in one.

    DeChastelain could have acted like a drooling nebbish at the news conference and still have carried the day if he was trusted. Laying it off to lousy performance art last time was a copout. Admit it, you don’t trust the IICD and still don’t.

    With this in mind, who wants to lay odds that the NIPS will suddenly discover an empty PhotoShop box in Sinn Fein’s dust bin after the photos of the decommissioned weapons are presented?

    The province needs a ropes course and not the one with the scaffold and 13 steps either, you wisea guys .

  • barnshee

    “As for trust, whilst the IRA guns are silent, the “loyalist” hoods continue their sectarian games and unionism disowns the “nasty fellows” they created. That’s the height of pure hypocrisy.”

    Well no a lot of Protestants have a sneaking regard for the “loyalist hoods ” who carried the “war” to the catholic murder gangs and replied in kind-they may mouth the appropriate noises– deep down they don`t mean it in the the same way the Dublin and Monaghan bombings are given the same treatment-scratch the prods deep enough and orange will show.

  • Davros

    scratch the prods deep enough and orange will show.

    You have the same mentality as the Loyalists “Deep down all RCs support the IRA and therefore are legit targets”

  • unionist_observer

    “scratch the prods deep enough and orange will show.”

    get a grip.

    I’m a prod and a unionist yet I don’t think I have ever intentionally even gone to watch an orange parade.

  • Davros

    The Lemass comment comes to mind:

    From the nationalists that he met in the North, however, Lemass concluded that
    “for them the day partition ended would be the day they would get their foot on the throat of the Orangeman across the road”. For all too many of the northern nationalists the aim has not been civil rights, but revenge.

  • Fraggle

    not for me davros. I’d like to only have to join one professional body to practice north and south. not to have to use two different types of money, particularly with cheques. not to be ruled by people in london who don’t give a shit about where I’m from. and so on and so forth.
    i don’t want revenge on anybody (apart from an ex-girlfriend and one guy in derry).
    I would like increased integration north-south though.

  • IJP

    I’ve never come across this ‘secret group’ of, shall we say, CCMS-educated NI residents who specifically wish to maintain the Union.

    However, it is entirely true to say that a semi-functioning NI within the Union is:
    a) possible, with goodwill on both sides; but
    b) an SF nightmare.

    A devolved settlement within the Union would not suddenly create a bunch of ‘Catholic Unionists’, but it would increase that already-existing class who are fairly happy with things as they are and have no real interest in changing it. Better the devil you know, and all that…

    The basic Irish Nationalist argument is that:
    a) partition was wrong; and
    b) it inevitably led to ‘discrimination against Catholics’.

    On a), though partition was certainly unfortunate, it is very debatable whether it was ‘wrong’ (Willowfield has often put forward a coherent argument here as to why it wasn’t). On b), well, that’s simply incorrect. But it is in SF’s interests to continue to make out that it is correct, as their case depends on it.

  • IJP

    Fraggle

    :)))

    Very funny sir! Best I’ve seen on Slugger for a while!

  • Davros

    Made me smile as well IJP …I wonder if it’s the same girl in Derry for all 3 of us ? 🙂

    Re people in London not giving a shit about …
    Don’t Corkonians say the same about Dublin ?

  • IJP

    Davros

    Don’t Corkonians say the same about Dublin?

    No, but the Dubs say it about Corkmen!

    In fact, Fraggle makes the case for an all-Ireland state far more coherently than either Northern Nationalist party (and is far from the only Sluggerette to do so). However, how true is this?

    Wearing my ‘British Protestant’ hat, I do not fear some sort of ‘Nationalist Vengeance Mission’ (although it only takes a few), what I fear is Nationalist ignorance about my genuine affinity for Britishness. It is ignorance rather than outright hate we should fear most, because the end effect can be just as bad without people realizing it.

    You maybe didn’t see the thread about a year ago where I proposed an all-Ireland State based on exactly the same independence formula as Australia (i.e. Monarch as Head of State, Union Jack in top corner of national flag, federal, all while fully sovereign without a cross-channel body in sight). The fact that it was turned down point-blank by Nationalist Sluggerettes, despite being an obvious avenue to a stable all-Ireland State with the potential benefits Fraggle lists above, was telling.

  • Davros

    I hadn’t discovered Slugger back in those dark days … Seems a sensible compromise. What were our nationalist brothers saying a while back about giving us a blank cheque ?

  • cg

    “Monarch as Head of State, Union Jack in top corner of national flag, federal, all while fully sovereign without a cross-channel body in sight”

    IJP
    If it’s respect for your British identity within a United Ireland then it shouldn’t be a problem.
    If however you wish for all the signs and symbols of colonial rule to remain then that might be a problem for some.

  • James

    “Union Jack in top corner of national flag”

    Well, so far you are three for three if you count drag queens. How about anchoring a little southeast of the Big Island to preserve the style of the layout.

  • Henry94

    Monarchy is not an option but I think we could agree an initial long or life term for a unionist nominated president. Or a Vice-Presidency with the two jobs rotating between nationalist and unionist nominees.

    On flags I’d certainly be willing to give up the tricolour for an agreed new flag and if the form of that flag was to express the various identities on the island than both the union flag and the tricolour could be incorporated in some way.

    My preference would be for an entirely new flag but if it was an issue for unionists I could live with it.

  • Davros

    If however you wish for all the signs and symbols of colonial rule to remain then that might be a problem for some.

    Change “rule” to colonial heritage or history and it looks rather different cg.

  • IJP

    Change “rule” to colonial heritage or history and it looks rather different

    Very good point. One man’s colonial rule is another man’s colonial heritage. A stable all-Ireland state with genuine respect for British identity would have to accept that for a start.

    Even in post-nationalist Ireland, it’s very hard to see that ever happening, given so many people on the island currently have no need or desire to do so.

  • Davros

    IJP : Even many in the Free State and later the ROI were keen to preserve some traces of the colonial past. It has many functions.

    1) reminder of the past
    2) reinforcing sense of acheivement in having shrugged off the coloniser
    3) Aesthetic reasons.
    4) Heritage Tourism
    5) bridge building with those who stayed after the colonising power withdrew.

    A case in point is the refurbishment of Raffles Hotel in Singapore.

    We are a hybrid people. That hybridity has been a strength, not a weakness and we need to learn to be comfortable with all the components of our identity.

    AE wrote in the Irish Statesman, 17 January 1925

    We wish the Irish mind to develop to the utmost of which it is capable, and we have always believed that the people now inhabiting Ireland, a new race made up of Gael, Dane, Norman and Saxon, has infinitely greater intellectual possibilities in it than the old race which existed before the stranger came. The union of races has brought a more complex mentality. We can no more get rid of these new elements in our blood and culture than we can get rid of the Gaelic blood.

    Eavan Boland wrote in The Irish Times in 1974

    ‘Let us be rid at last of any longing for cultural unity, in a country whose most precious contribution may be precisely its insight into the anguish of disunity; let us be rid of any longing for imaginative collective dignity in a land whose final and only dignity is individuality.
    For there is, and at last I recognize it, no unity whatsoever in this culture of ours. And even more important, I recognize that there is no need whatsoever for such unity. If we search for it we will, at a critical moment, be mutilating with fantasy once again the very force we should be liberating with reality …’

  • Henry94

    IJP

    The position of most people these days to issues of culture is live and let live.

    If you ask nationalists if they a genuine respect for British identity most will insist that they have.

    How that would find expression in a united Ireland is the question. I think unionists would have to give some thought to that rather than trying to come up with things they think we’d find hard to swallow.

    Would culture even be the big issue? I think political and economic questions would be more to the fore.

  • slackjaw

    Another thing that has to be considered is how expression of British identity in the North is inextricably tied to the actuality of British rule in Northern Ireland space.

    Republicans often say that they would have no issue with expressions of British identity and culture in a unified Irish state, and whilst there is no real reason to doubt this, I think that these are expressions of British identity as conceived by republicans, and not unionists.

    I imagine (but will happily stand corrected) that such expressions might go no further than expressions of Irish identity such as those in England or in the US, i.e. traditional parades, flag-flying, the playing of national anthems at gatherings etc.

    There is a difference, though: these are the expressions of identity of people who are outside their homelands. Would this really be considered enough for British-Irish/Repartitionists?

  • davidbrew

    Republicans often say that they would have no issue with expressions of British identity and culture in a unified Irish state, and whilst there is no real reason to doubt this, I think that these are expressions of British identity as conceived by republicans, and not unionists.

    good point-but what about the Dublin Orange parade and SF-inspired opposition? I’d say there’s every reason to have doubts -outsdide one Saturday in Rossknowlagh the track record’s not great