Derry leads the way…

SOME suspect that the Big Deal will be announced next Tuesday or Wednesday, although I can guarantee it was never going to happen on Saturday Lundy’s Day! However, even Lundy’s Day – named after the man denounced by Protestants as a traitor during the Siege of Derry (unionists are quite insistent upon the ‘Derry’ name when it comes to Apprentice Boys events) – has become an example of progress. The Irish News reports that many stores will be open for the first time during Saturday’s parade, and a PSNI briefing for local resulted in an audience of two (and 15 reporters), as trouble is not expected.

Brief aside – A headline on the DUP site’s press archive reads “DUP welcomes Government’s OTMs announcement”.

For a moment, I thought the DUP had done a U-turn on OTRs (an acronym for paramlitary fugitives ‘on the run’), but normality was resumed when I read Jim Allister’s statement on the replacement of the agricultural ‘Over Thirty Months’ scheme.

I should have knkown better – there’s not much of a chance that any OTR will be serving OTM after next week’s Big Deal!

;o)

  • CavanMan

    It amazes me,why the nationalists dont just let the orangemen/apprentice boys march down their roads,then turn around and march through theirs on St Patricks day,and for AOH parades.:)

  • dave

    Since when did St Patrick’s day belong solely to the nationalists community?

    St Patrick belongs to both communities, Orange lodges carry banners of St Patrick and are very proud to do so.

  • Davros

    Dave, long tradition of St Patrick’s day being nationalist. That is being challenged by some within the unionist community as part of the process of redefining our identity. Much the same has happened over Cu Chulainn.

  • cg

    “Dave, long tradition of St Patrick’s day being nationalist. That is being challenged by some within the unionist community as part of the process of redefining our identity. Much the same has happened over Cu Chulainn.”

    Davros
    St Patrick’s Day should belong to everyone but unionists have to remember he is the patron saint of “Ireland”.

    I have always found Loyalists attempts to claim Cu Chulainn as quite amusing. The Legend takes place in a “United Ireland”, most of his stories take place in South Armagh and if he existed he spoke Irish or my own native tongue of “Feinn”(South Armagh regional dialect. We intend to set up a Feinn agency and seek European funding as a minority language.)

    “Rulle youi foer lifee feinn”

  • Davros

    cg : I’m interested in the cultural and historical aspects, more than the politics. Strongly recommend the book from which I’m about to quote.
    There’s a few pages of interest about Cu Chulainn in there as well.

    Ribbonmen and Freemasons

    The legacy of the Volunteers, the Freemasons, the United Irishmen, the Defenders, and of popular involvement with political activity and debate, left a deep mark in Ulster. This was especially true in the linen triangle, which stretched from east Tyrone, through Armagh and Down, to south Antrim. This was the area where fraternal organisations had long been, and remained, strongest. It was an area with numerous book clubs and reading clubs, and it had the highest literacy rates in Ireland (Adams 1987; Hewitt 1951). Daniel O’Cormell’s campaign for Catholic emancipation coincided with an increase in displays of political identity within the Roman Catholic community in the years after 1820, and it was around this time that the name ‘Ribbonmen’ began to appear regularly in news reports. The Ribbonmen inherited the role of defenders of rural Catholics (Garvin 1981, 1987). They organised across the north to counter the Orange threat, and espoused a vague nationalist political rhetoric, which was largely concealed by the secretive, undocumented structure of their organisation.
    Ribbonmen came from a wide range of social backgrounds with the farming, trading and artisanal ranks of Catholic society prominent in leadership positions: this helped to unite the otherwise local defence groups into a more coherent political movement. The Ribbonmen were also prominent in establishing a custom of parading among the Catholic community, one which reflected the growing importance of religion as a marker of collective identity (Wright 1996). It was at this time that St Patrick’s day was confirmed as a popular and specifically Catholic event; funeral processions were also utilised as a suitable opportunity for public displays of solidarity. It is not clear when St Patrick’s day parades began, but in 1822 The Irishman reported that ‘there has been an immemorial practice of walking in procession on the anniversary of St Patrick’, and claimed that 20,000 people had paraded in Downpatrick the previous year (22.3.1822). St Patrick’s parades were regularly held in Castledawson, Downpatrick, Newry, Toome and in the Glens of Antrim, all areas with a large Catholic population, while smaller celebrations were recorded in Belfast. Ribbon parades adopted all the customary trappings: the men appeared in ‘regular marching order, with a drum and fife’ wearing white and green colours and ‘sashes corresponding with their head dresses’, and they paraded ‘with colours flying and music playing’ (BNL 19.3.1824,21.3.1826). However, it is not until 1847 that a report from Seaforde, Co. Down, gives more information: ‘flags, inscribed with mottoes and devices. . . several having the portrait of St Patrick’ (NW 20.3.1847). Therefore St Patrick seems to have been co-opted and sectarianised as a Catholic Irish saint, in the same way and at broadly the same time as King William was redefined as a Protestant hero. He was adopted as the patron of one section of the lower classes of a society that was increasingly divided in its loyalties and aspirations. This seems to have been accepted by many historians as an almost inevitable outcome of the violence of 1798; however, there are indications that this was not the only option.

    Material Conflicts, Neil Jarman, 1997, Berg, pp 50-51

  • cg

    Agreed Davros
    I hate the idea of Irishmen squabbling over who owns who. All aspects of Irish folklore and tradition should be enjoyed by all.

    P.S
    Can I assume that you will support our call in having Feinn recognised as a minority language under threat?

  • Davros

    cg – you and I should establish a commission to cleanse the lore of sectarian and political pollution ! Not so sure about it being possible in respect of tradition which surely by definition must include historical practices.

  • cg

    Agreed Davros
    You still haven’t given a commitment to feinn

  • Davros

    Ah, sorry, OCRing 🙂

  • Davros

    Hmmmm – are you taking the p ? Or is there really a South Armagh dialect ? If so I’m all in favour on condition that we agree to keep them Derry yins in their place 😉 ( Wonderful Piss-take in Folks on the Hill of Fawlty Towers with Gerry as Basil and Martin as Manuel … yep, ‘you’ll have to excuse him, he’s from Derry’ was the punch line)

  • cg

    Explain yourself man
    You wouldn’t be advocating linguistic and cultural discrimination.

  • cg

    “Hmmmm – are you taking the p ? Or is there really a South Armagh dialect ? If so I’m all in favour on condition that we agree to keep them Derry yins in their place 😉 ( Wonderful Piss-take in Folks on the Hill of Fawlty Towers with Gerry as Basil and Martin as Manuel … yep, ‘you’ll have to excuse him, he’s from Derry’ was the punch line)”

    Davros would I take the Piss 😉
    Feinn is a close cousin of Ulster-Scots.
    Agreed
    Them Londonderry ones need to be kept in line;) (The Derry ones are going to lynch me. Ha Ha)
    Seen FOTH, it was a laugh.

  • Davros

    OCR ? Surely a young lad such as yourself will know techno-jargon ? Optical Character Recognition – I’m
    scanning some of the Jarman Book.

    There’s something about Derry … look at what Hume did to the SDLP! Paddy Devlin (before your time) – he was their best man for the job. Sighs.

  • Davros

    Although, Devlin tells a funny story about his Belfast Fianna when he were a lad 😉

    moments we heard Chamberlain’s historic words that war was indeed declared on Germany. We had little time for the British and were neutral about the Germans, as de Valera had advised us, so the Catholic community viewed the looming conflict with some detachment. Many young people of my age expected the German planes to arrive overhead at once and drop their bombs as we had seen pictures of them doing in Spain.
    As soon as the broadcast was over, Lapsy arrived back at our front door. ‘The OC wants you urgently in the back room of the Big Shot Billiard Hall,’ he said. I followed him round and when we got there the OC called us to attention. ‘I’ve just got word from Dublin. Great news. England’s difficulty is Ireland’s opportunity. They have fallen into our trap. Now they have Germany to face on the European front and ourselves lying in wait to attack their backs in a deadly pincer movement. They don’t know that for years the Frank Doherty Sluagh of Na Fianna Éireann have been organising and getting themselves into a state of military fitness to battle it out with them to the death. The time has at last arrived to start our battle.’
    The opening shots he ordered hardly matched such a grandiose build-up. We were ordered to get brushes and buckets and prepare whitewash to paint slogans on gable walls. I was not involved in the subsequent operation, but next morning on my way to work I saw the embarrassing results. ‘England’s difficulty is Ireland’s opera tune’ had been daubed on factory walls and gables all along the Falls Road. I prayed for rain.

    Straight Left An Autobiography by Paddy Devlin
    © 1993, The Blackstaff Press.(page 26)

  • cg

    The Best man for Derry has still to be elected next may and it’s not Mark “the situation, blah, blah, blah” Durkan.

  • cg

    “England’s difficulty is Ireland’s opera tune’ had been daubed on factory walls and gables all along the Falls Road. I prayed for rain.”

    It’s Belfast what do you expect.

  • Davros

    Poor Mark. I cannot take him seriously. Reminds me of Jim Bowen of Bullseye.

  • Davros

    Hey – I was born in Belfast !

  • cg

    “Poor Mark. I cannot take him seriously. Reminds me of Jim Bowen of”

    Don’t insult Jim Bowen.
    Poor fella won’t be party leader for long though.

  • cg

    “Hey – I was born in Belfast !”

    If the shoe fits 😉

  • Davros

    OK then – Conceived in Omeath !

  • cg

    “OK then – Conceived in Omeath !”
    Sounds interesting
    “Take it down from the mast free state traitor..” ; )
    (Only joking it’s the 26 counties)

  • Davros

    Oh aye – I have Southern blood … the family try to keep it quiet for obvious reasons 😉

  • cg

    Your secrets out

  • Davros

    I’ll deny all !

  • cg

    Pretty hard to deny something you have already admitted to.

  • Davros

    Made under duress !

  • cg

    How are you going to prove that?

  • Davros

    Plan B – plead diminished responsibilty/insanity.

  • cg

    “Plan B – plead diminished responsibility/insanity”

    Again how are you going to prove that?
    I wouldn’t. An Insanity verdict is worse than a guilty verdict.

  • Davros

    LOL – I forgot – dangerous, I’m dealing with a Lawyer-to-be.

    Again how are you going to prove that?

    My Posts ?

    p.s, when is Saint Peter’s Eve ?

  • cg

    “LOL – I forgot – dangerous, I’m dealing with a Lawyer-to-be.

    Again how are you going to prove that?

    My Posts ?”

    LOL, I think a few bloggers could plead insanity if a few of the right people read some of the messages on this website. Not pointing any fingers DV.

    “p.s, when is Saint Peter’s Eve ?”
    Don’t know

  • Warm Storage

    Please note: A Derryman has just signed on this thread (no cultural-stereotype pun intended).

  • Davros

    LOL WS 🙂 I wasn’t sure of any Derry wans visited here !

  • Warm Storage

    Born and reared there, Davros. Belfast-based now, however.

  • Davros

    Hmmm- is that going up or coming down in the world ?
    LOL

  • Young Fogey

    It’s Belfast what do you expect.

    Oi, watch it, farm boy! Belfast was good enough for you to move to.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    It could only be in Northern Ireland that a debate on the improvement in levels of violence on Lundy Day includes some contributors insulting each other’s home-towns, and others ranting on about “feinne”, which is apparently a “close cousin of Ulster-Scots” that no-one, myself included, has ever heard of!
    It’s rather disconcerting that there is no discussion on the actual day in question. I was at the parade, and the police had done a good job keeping the peace, that is until the last band walked past the Richmond Centre, where I was standing. Glasgow Celtic and Republic of Ireland clad thugs then contrived to throw bottle after bottle into the Loyalist crowd. The police pushed us round the corner to Bishops Street, but we still came under attack, in my case, inches away from being split open by what looked like a jam jar! At one stage I thought there was going to be hand-to-hand combat, as the police were almost outflanked by hate-filled republicans ranging from the ages of about 4 – 55! The police did a great job of forcing them back however, and I’ve never seen people run so fast in my life, as the thugs who sprinted down the hill at Shipquay Street, pursued by police on foot, and in the white land-rovers. People like Apprentice Boy and Ulster Unionist MLA Derek Hussey urged us to “go and burn Lundy and don’t rise to the bait”, which EVERYONE on the Loyalist side then did.
    I think the only mistake made by the police was that they were a bit complacent. They weren’t quick enough to stamp out the trouble when it started, and let it linger on for a good 20-30 minutes. The removal of the plastic shields on each side due to the peaceful procession last year, was an oversight too, as this prevented trouble last year.
    On Saturday I felt proud to be a Protestant and a Loyalist. That does not make me a bigot, but proud of the Loyalist people, who, in the face of intimidation and adversity, only out to celebrate the age-old tradition of “burning Lundy”, walked away from the trouble started by City-side sectarian, mindless thugs, who, if you’re being honest, don’t have a thought-out political ideal in their heads!
    “AN IRELAND OF EQUALS” you say, Sinn Fein? I DON’T THINK SO! Going to university in Londonderry, and being the subject of sectarian abuse on numerous occasions, I don’t think the Roman Catholic/nationalist City-side population will ever accept co-habiting the city with the Protestant/Loyalist community!
    Tell me, if you think I’m wrong!

  • Dec

    You’re wrong.

    Or rather, YOU’RE WRONG!

  • cg

    “feinne”, which is apparently a “close cousin of Ulster-Scots” that no-one, myself included, has ever heard of!

    CL
    The fact that you haven’t heard of it doesn’t alter the fact that it is the dialect of South Armagh. Until the GFA no one had ever heard of Ulster Scots. ; )

    “Ach yone hamé muniee, ruille youi foeir Lifee feinn”