Dr Paisley goes to Dublin…

It’s a measure of how relaxed the DUP has become in its relations with Dublin that a delegation from its party is to visit Bertie Ahern and whoever his new Minister for Foreign Affairs is on Thursday. With Brian Cowen being tipped for a move in tomorrow’s cabinet reshuffle, the Doc is scheduled to make his first ever visit to an Irish government building in the Republic itself.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    So from never, never, never. To maybe, maybe, maybe. To ummm, alright then. Sign of the times, but a tacit admission that those unionists who had followed this same civilised route were not traitors and Lundys after all, just pragmatists.

  • maca

    Remember that time Paisley dropped by for a vist but refused to drink Barry’s Tea? Da right funny man that boyo Paisley.

  • Butterknife

    Ian Paisley, from the outset, set out to oppose the civil rights movement and the reforms of Terence O’Neill; he (Paisley) aided, abetted, counseled and procured the continuing troubles by his right wing ideals and his showmanship: e.g. throwing snowballs at Lamass in 1965 where O

  • Davros

    Butterknife,if we are talking 1960’s remember what Lemass said about Northern nationalists ?
    Useful to put Paisley into context.

  • Keith M

    Butterknife; until very recently the Republic had an undemocratic claim on Northern Ireland and senior Irish goverment ministers were talking about seeing a “united Ireland” in the lifetime. The last person to create that hostage to fortune was David Andrews, and just like previous generations, he’s likley to be on his deathbed with the border still intact. You don’t hear that kind of nonsense anymore. We’re living in very different times.

    The fact that Paisley has now seen fit to travel to Dublin (after previous meetings with Ahern in Belfast & London), has as much (if not more) to do with the movment of politicians in the Republic as it has to do with him.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    “The fact that Paisley has now seen fit to travel to Dublin (after previous meetings with Ahern in Belfast & London), has as much (if not more) to do with the movment of politicians in the Republic as it has to do with him.”

    The movement of politicians in the 26 counties was within the context and out playing of the GFA. If this is a realisation by Paisley that the GFA is the only show in town all well and good. But the clinbdown does make him appear foolish

  • smcgiff

    ‘Remember that time Paisley dropped by for a vist but refused to drink Barry’s Tea?’

    WHAT? Now he’s in my bad books. Up the rebels!!

    Er, in a non-threatening, just something that’s said kind of way, am, okay?

  • Butterknife

    Protestants in general have this siege mentality in Northern Ireland that they wear like a straitjacket but try their best to get out off when voting for their third rate politicians. I still haven

  • Davros

    Butterknife just as it is unreasonable to look at
    Bloody Friday outside of the context of Bloody Sunday , it’s unreasonable to lift 1960’s Paisley out of context.

    Was the siege mentality of the 50’s and 60’s justified ? I would argue yes. that doesn’t in any way justiofy things that happened as a result of that mentality, but let’s be honest. They were beseiged.

  • smcgiff

    Davros,

    What way of life exactly was being besieged?

    It could be said that Apartheid South Africa was besieged.

    *Switches off PC & Ducks under desk*

  • Davros

    LOL cheeky devil smcgiff πŸ™‚

  • Butterknife

    Am I to distinguish then between 20th Century Paisley and the 21st Century Paisley? Has he travelled along his own road of Damascus: has he seen the light? If that were the case then would he say that he made a mistake or that maybe he used a wrong tactic etc.
    Paisley is fallible like everyone else, his power stemmed from his charisma and his method of preaching fear and being able to point the finger at someone else in an attempt to lay blame for something, which he was against or he could extract a vote from.

    So has he changed?

  • Belfast Gonzo

    We all know what the DUP attitude to the Republic has been over the years. Should they now be criticised for their past hostility or encouraged along the path?

    Is Paisley a Lundy or a leader?!

  • smcgiff

    Butterknife,

    For a second there I thought you said you propose a politician to admit to making a mistake. I must be mistaken! ;o)

  • Butterknife

    That is the irony: We all say that we are losing faith in our politicians because they all tell lies and none of them admit to their faults etc. But then what do we do … vote for the same breed time and again…

    SMcGiff

    You may be mistaken but not I … future MEP, MP, MLA and councillor in making me thinks (oops, sorry you are no longer able to have a dual mandate in Europe):)

  • Butterknife

    Belfast Gonzo

    Neither … its the UUPs fault;)

  • Davros

    Am I to distinguish then between 20th Century Paisley and the 21st Century Paisley? Has he travelled along his own road of Damascus: has he seen the light? If that were the case then would he say that he made a mistake or that maybe he used a wrong tactic etc.

    not sure about Damascus , but he’s going to travel on the road to Dublin !

  • Butterknife

    I didn’t even see that pun coming, even when i was writing it. I wonder if he will stock up on the cheap petrol while he is down there or will he faithfully not begrudge the Chancellor of the extra half-crown.

    In attempting to answer whether Paisley is a Lundy or a leader is, I believe only possible with the aid of hindsight and a certain amount of history. To a liberal he has seen the light, to a DUP member he is being pragmatic and all the other positive unionist words that doesn

  • Davros

    “I didn’t even see that pun coming, even when i was writing it.”

    I felt bad about using it … although I was worried in case it was a trap and you had a snappy comeback planned πŸ˜‰

  • maca

    “Is Paisley a Lundy or a leader?!”

    He’s a [transmission suspended]

  • Butterknife

    What are the chances that he will appear on the ‘Late, Late Show’? *Thinks of comeback for Davros*

    One thing is certain if the DUP feels they are becoming hypocritical they shall blame the other parties first before they will blame themselves. I note that Vance et al are now picking on the poor DUP so there is justice at least.

    I also see that Tony Blair stole some of my ideas for his speech that i included about Paisley.

  • Rebecca Black

    “As for putting Paisley in context, when he has departed I think history will be a more harsher critic than me. “

    oohh butterknife, you are talking about the unmentionable…..you must be a romanist!!!

    *although did you read in the Belfast Telegraph that Paisley has now admitted that he was in fact very ill, it wasn’t just routine tests, but then he has the great Lord God on his side, so I guess he is invincible.

  • North Antrim Realist

    It is now 20 years ago and we can now judge fairly, Paisley allowed his hatred of the Catholic Faith to turn him into a purveyor of hate and sectarianism against all things Catholic, a very unchristian positon for a supposed christian.

    He and John Hume and their intransigence between them held this country back for more than a generation ……..

    The people of Northern Ireland voted for them so who else can they blame………….?

  • Butterknife

    As for John Hume he was an out and out republican that hid behind the labour window dressing of the SDLP that saw the casting out of Gerry Fit, the best PM we never had:)

    In the end all roads lead to Dublin Mr Paisley *Still trying Davros*

  • Butterknife

    As for John Hume he was an out and out republican that hid behind the labour window dressing of the SDLP that saw the casting out of Gerry Fit, the best PM we never had:)

    In the end all roads lead to Dublin Mr Paisley *still trying for that elusive pun*

  • Butterknife

    Oops, sorry i have often been accused of double speak:(

  • davidbrew

    but then he has the great Lord God on his side, so I guess he is invincible.

    many a true word spoken in jest, Rebecca

  • willowfield

    Isn’t it contradictory to believe in predestination while at the same time praying for someone to survive an illness?

    If it was God’s plan to take him, he’d have died, regardless of who was praying for him, surely?

  • Butterknife

    I was always told that “God takes the best” or something to that effect so what

  • smcgiff

    I believe in predestination, but I seriously doubt Mr Paisley and I agree on the mechanics of predestination. Mine being based on science and his, er, whatever.

  • Butterknife

    That is what he and Blair has in common. They both believe they are right, they may be proved wrong of course but at the time they thought they were right and therefore it must be so…

  • maca

    I believe in science. When the engine gives out that’s it.

  • smcgiff

    ‘I believe in science. When the engine gives out that’s it.’

    Better hope it’s Toyota built rather than Lada, then! πŸ˜‰

  • Butterknife

    A good letter in The Newsletter by Ms Black, i especially like Paisley’s quote when directed to the RUC:

    Don’t come running to me if your house is on fire… you have yourself to blame

  • North Antrim Realist

    David Brewster

    I note you are not really tempted to post an authorative thought on this thread…….I know what Paisley has said and done over the last 35 years…. I am quite happy to call him an egotistical, hypocrite on those specific grounds…. can you defend his and the DUP’s position?

  • Butterknife

    We should set up a specific DUP thread and note how often they criticise others before they massage their once hard line but

  • Butterknife

    Paisley is going to Dublin to ‘bolt down’ IRAs decommissioning! Well thats ok then. It explains why he hasn’t been before:)

  • Butterknife
  • Butterknife

    Sorry was trying to be smart there! 2nd time lucky…

    “> Sell out

  • Butterknife

    I give up …. i blame the UUP:)

  • willowfield

    Someone give a big slice of humble pie to Ian Paisley.

  • Butterknife

    Never, never, never ….. any unionist that goes to Dublin is selling out!

    Now we know what he wants his cenotaph message to read: “Prime Minister of Ulster, saviour of Protestantism and peacemaker

  • Davros

    Much as I dislike Paisley, I would rather we had a peace made by him than no peace at all .

  • Butterknife

    We are all agreed that the Belfast Agreement has brought a new era of prosperity and peace to this small province and it is near certain that the IRA will suspend their operations and melt into history but I feel uneasy about what kind of peace it would be if Ian was Prime Minister and his theocratic ministers where in charge.

  • Butterknife

    Hearts and Minds (7/10/4)

    Danny Morrison gave a good account of Paisley’s acheivements.

    • Smash Sinn Fein/IRA (1984) formed Ulster Resistance, waved gun licenses etc.
    • Called O’Neill traiter for selling out to Lamas and then threw snowballs at his car (1960s)… Enough said;)
    • Ordered the RUC into the little known SF office to tear down the table flag of the Tricolour … where is the flags today (did that not also start the biggest ever riot in Belfast?)
    • It is looking increasingly likely that Mr Paisley is going to swallow his pride and share power with Sinn Fein: they are the biggest Republician party in Northern Ireland, all he had to do was keep his gob shut in the 1960s and play footsie with the SDLP.

      Thank good he isn’t a real doctor. God knows what i would have die from after seeking his help!

  • Butterknife

    I wonder if Peter wore his red beret to keep the Irish sun from burning his head when he took part in a late-night incursion into a border village in the Republic.

  • ulsterman

    Lets get this straight. The DUP will never enter government with SF. For that to happen the IRA must disband.

    God Save The Queen.

  • maca

    “The DUP will never enter government with SF. For that to happen the IRA must disband”

    Confusing yourself there a bit?

    “God Save The Queen”

    Why? what’s wrong with her? Is she ok?

  • smcgiff

    “God Save The Queen”

    Gosh, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Freddie Mercury has gone to the great glitter ball in the sky.

    Okay, who can beat that for most inappropriate joke of the day?

  • George

    “Called O’Neill traiter for selling out to Lamas”

    I thought it was four legs good, two legs bad but obviously it was the spitting that was too much for Paisley.

  • Butterknife

    … but Paisley said he would smash Sinn Fein: I for one saw him on TV grabing a ‘Romanist’ [Paisley] reporter’s lapels and telling him that if any member of his party talks to Sinn Fein they will thrown out of the DUP.

    What you’re saying is that the Fair Deal now consists of the DUP sharing power with Sinn Fein?

    Sinn Fein is an all island party and if they want to become the lever of power in the Irish Republic’s Parliament then they were always going to divorce themselves from the IRA, for the Republic’s Constitution recognises only one army; that of the State’s own.
    Brain Feeney of the Irish News said, and to use a metaphor to illustrate the point: The DUP may be stealing the jackpot that the UUP (and the SDLP) gambled on.