Irish interests best served in English?

Having lost (albeit temporarily) our archives, I’m not sure if I have already posted this spirited argument against the campaign to have Irish recognised as an official language in the EU.

  • peteb

    I think you may have, Mick, but what the hell..

    Personally, I’d be very interested to hear Roddy Doyle’s opinion on the topic. :o)

  • maca

    Yeah, you might have posted it. I definitly saw it before, a bullshit article which left me in quite a mood the first time I read it.

    The author could have made some good points but went of on some prejudiced rant and once he brought the nazis into it he lost the complete argument.

    It’s not even worth reading to be honest.

  • Davros

    Was posted on 2nd September 🙂

  • Colm

    A strong article undoubtedly, and with more than a whiff of Irish self-loathing but the points made about the waste of fuds on gaelic were spot on. The compulsory bi-linguality policies make sense in countries like Canada where there really is two languages commonly spoken and to alesser extent in Wales but in Ireland it’s nonsense.

    One more thing about the article, the author bemoans the fact that ‘plastic Paddyness’ and ‘gaelicisation’ stifles Ireland’s ‘true culture’ but never actually explains what that is, although I get the feeling he is refering to the high brow Anglo-Irish literary heritage of Swift, Yeats Wilde and Co.

  • Colm

    P.S ‘fuds’ should read ‘funds’

  • Millie

    I suppose in practical terms it would be best if all the world’s minority languages died out, but then what an extremely dull world it would be.

  • James

    I get a kick out of practicing my Irish whenever I’m on the island. The expressions of the people I’m talking to are a real gas: They are like deer caught in the headlights.

    You can see them thinking “Is that a heart attack?” or “Look Margie, the Irish is so bad that it’s got to be Gerry Adams. My has he aged!”.

    I set out to learn (or destroy, according to some) the language this way based upon personal choice, not because it was imposed upon me. Accordingly, I discern the writer of the article Mick posted and I have some common cause if the argument were one of personal choice as opposed to the community or the state forcing something upon the individual. That is not the issue the writer addresses, though.

    The article addresses the question of whether Irish deserves to be established as an official EU language. It is also pure polemic in which the guy plays it fast and loose. Discounting his remarkable restraint with “wasn’t as nasty as mass extermination”, I find his argument that while 330,000 Maltese speakers are legitimate, the 339,451 daily Irish speakers in the republic (2002 figs) are not, to be purely specious. The craic is great but the argument sucks.

    Don’t give the TV remote to this guy either.

  • Davros

    Recommend “The Great Silence” by S

  • James

    “I spent 3 days in Galway a couple of years ago of which a fair amount of time was spent on “research” in public houses and never heard Irish spoken once.
    ?”

    Borrow my accent for a while.

  • James

    “How much reliance can be put on the census figures ?”

    Oh dear, I hope this doesn’t start again.

  • Davros

    James, I’m not trying to re-start an old argument. I do find it hard to believe that approximately one person in 12 in the ROI speaks Irish on a daily basis.

  • maca

    The questions in the census were very vague AFAIK.
    How many speak it in conversation daily? Definitly a lot less than 300,000.

    One thing I think the census demonstrates is that Irish people still have feelings for the language, got to be a good thing IMHO. (so if anyone states that all Irish people hate the language it’s likely bullshit.)

  • Davros

    That’s what I thought Maca. For once I wasn’t poop-stirring 😉

    Have you got a copy of “Who Needs Irish” yet ?

    One other thing …does anybody know a website where I can hear Irish poetry – as gaeilge (is that correct?) – being read ?

  • Davros

    I need to watch the numbers !

  • maca

    “For once I wasn’t poop-stirring”

    Never entered my mind Dav.

    No, I didn’t get a copy yet. I need to curtail my online purchases for a while. I’ll get it eventually, when I have time to read it.

    Poetry as Gaeilge?
    I had a good link somewhere but I can’t find it. I’ll try to dig it out, in the mean time you might find something here:
    http://www.rte.ie/rnag/eist.html

  • Davros

    Thanks maca 🙂

  • maca

    p.s. I got a nice book of Irish poems when I was home, it’s actually a school book but there’s well over a hundred poems in it, brings back interesting memories.

  • Davros

    Poems in Irish ? Modern or old ?

  • maca

    The book itself was published in 1974, even though we used it in the 90’s.

    Some authors: Se

  • Davros

    Sounds excellent. Michael Hartnett ?

  • maca

    I don’t see his name there but I haven’t gone through it in great detail yet.

  • Davros

    Man was a genius. Wrote in English, then quit writing in English for 10 years and only wrote in Irish.

    Excerpt from

  • Jeany

    A Mhic

  • Davros

    Check out this on the Dalta

  • maca

    The author of the article posted above?
    It’s Paul MacDonnell, director of the Open Republic Institute.

    “Irish

  • Colm

    maca

    Yes it’s a pity he isn’t able to make his points without such obvious hostility to ‘Irishness’. The points he raises about the forced promotion of Gaelic are worthwhile but he obviously has (If he is Irish himself) a real inferiority complex about his country and the notion of an indigenous Irish culture separate from and not influenced by ‘Mother Superior England’

  • Davros

    Begs the question Colm…would anybody want to go back to a society such as existed before those Norman Chappies arrived here ?

  • peteb

    Not to mention those Nordic Chappies, Davros.

  • Davros

    Are you referring to Henrk Larsson’s return the other night Pete ? 😉

  • peteb

    I think there’s quite a few people who would want to go back to a time before Henrik first set foot on the hallowed Park turf. :o)

  • Colm

    Davros (you still exist – here if not elsewhere)

    I wasn’t trying to glorify a sense of racially isolationist purity, which let’s face it only really exists if at all nowadays amongst a few isolated tribes in remote unspoilt parts of the planet , I was only commenting on the author’s obvious hostility to any aspect of Irish culture which wasn’t rooted in the Anglo-Irish heritage, a heritage by the way which I believe deeply enriches all of us in these islands.

  • Davros

    Colm- I was teasing 🙂

    “author’s obvious hostility to any aspect of Irish culture which wasn’t rooted in the Anglo-Irish heritage,”

    I don’t read his hostility as being towards “non Anglo-Irish” Colm, I read it as hostility to cultural nationalism.

  • maca

    To be honest, I sensed it as hostility towards “non Anglo-Irish”. I think he was pusing his own form of cultural nationalism.

  • ShayPaul

    Yep,

    I read it like maca also, he’s pushing his version of cultural nationalism. It’s between the lines and in some of them as well.
    Don’t like it too much … something doesn’t fit

  • Davros

    “It is perfectly understandable that people who have lived with and loved a particular symbol all their lives… should resent being asked to look at it a little more closely or critically.”

    The Great Silence, second edition, S

  • ShayPaul

    ” What do you get when you keep people in the dark and feed them bullshit ?”

    Answer “mushrooms”

    Enjoy the soup Davros

  • Davros

    Is that a reference to Derek Mahon Shay ?

  • maca

    Good quote Davros, and I think Se

  • Davros

    I know what you mean Maca . It’s a fascinating book.
    By the time I had read half of it I had De Fr

  • maca

    I’ll definitly have to put that one on the shopping list, christmas isn’t so far away 😉

    How’s everything in your part of the world this Sunday morning? Dark and drizzly here.

  • Davros

    It’s best described as murky 🙂 I have the lights on in the house. I don’t think the De Fr