Slugger O'Toole

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Latest comments from Red Lion (see all)

Red Lion has commented 81 times (0 in the last month).

1. Comment on Sinn Fein’s idea of rapprochement “is a brick-cold exercise in reinvention, re-positioning and re-writing of the past”
   on 20 April 2012 at 6:57 pm

   Hells bells Paddyreilly, if im guilty of ‘goading’ then you must be a sensitive wee soul. Id call it throwing down a challenge.

   So some bloke replies, I disagree with them and set out what my thoughts are, in the pursuit of having a conversation on the subject. A ‘united ireland’ designed by me as you call it – so what?? its a discussion form, deal with it

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2. Comment on Sinn Fein’s idea of rapprochement “is a brick-cold exercise in reinvention, re-positioning and re-writing of the past”
   on 19 April 2012 at 10:38 pm

   Obelisk, very intelligent and interesting piece you wrote, if i knew how to ‘commend’ you on the computer id do it! Very interesting last couple of paras where some sort of Westminster dimension in NI can fall under the definition of a UI is a goer-

   Only thing I’d say though, is that much of the framework for a UI should be proposed before a vote, I think people need to know what it is they are actually voting for.Even with that, there is likely to be tortuous negotiations after the vote anyway.

   Mick, i agree, its not really unionisms problem as such, I’m all for those unicorns and NI just settling down and our children just chilling out. But its good to talk to good talkers!

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3. Comment on Sinn Fein’s idea of rapprochement “is a brick-cold exercise in reinvention, re-positioning and re-writing of the past”
   on 19 April 2012 at 9:51 pm

   weidm7

   Ha! You cant put it back onto unionists by saying’ they wont tell us what they’d accept!! The notion of a United Ireland is bandied about so much it surely be up those who continue such hollow bluster to put substantial meat on the bones!

   But, im glad of someone like yourself who has had a go,

   Your first proposal can barely be called as such, it is far too wishy-washy – ‘unionist culture’ celebrated everywhere on the island etc – we’re not going to just take your word for it are we! WE want real bolted down detail enshrined in political structures, agreements on policing public services etc!!

   Your second proposal, well devolution has to continue with NI continuing to act as an admistrative area. Doubt the 26 counties want their normal lives turned upside down by the 2 tribes up north invading their normal poloitical and social space. I also think, being realistic, Dublin would have a canary at the thought of being solely responsible for NI, and will try to ‘farm out’ or ‘manage out’ the problem as best they can which includes being much more flexible and accomodating to unionism than northern nationalists will be. This includes NI going on as an admin area, and the 6 counties having a proper British input, probably commonwealth with Queen as (possibly joint)head of state, possibly some role for Westminster too. They will especially want Westminster to continue help paying for NI.
   If there is a win for a united ireland in a referendum then unionism should be negotiating hard for such things to be included in a flexible notion of a United Ireland.
   In short, the 26 counties go on as they are, with NI being in effect, a sort of joint authority, hopefully within the commonwealth.
   Or maybe all-Ireland could rejoin the commonwealth, possibly with 2 heads of state.

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4. Comment on Sinn Fein’s idea of rapprochement “is a brick-cold exercise in reinvention, re-positioning and re-writing of the past”
   on 19 April 2012 at 8:29 pm

   Indeed.

   I have asked (nationalists in particular) several times on here how to define a ‘United Ireland’ and what it looks like in terms of political structures including any devolution, how the various facets of government might look eg Health Service, education, policing, how do nationalists intend to accommodate unionists in a ‘United Ireland’.. Noone seems to have any idea! The virtual silence is deafening, and similar to what Alex Kane points out, very revealing.

   I ask these questions again, in the hope of practical answers that go beyond the bluster of ideals.

   PS Can a United Ireland include a tangible and practable British Dimension??

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5. Comment on For Nationalists Only: What’s great about living in the United Kingdom?
   on 19 April 2012 at 5:51 pm

   Billy Pilgrim, your point at 12.34

   honestly, what the unionist thread shows is that the first thing unionists are forced to ask themselves is, ‘actually, what the hell is a United Ireland’.

   I was looking forward to this thread andf talking positively about the GAA and the way it is set up in particular-that was my positive intention until i tried to specifically answer the question ‘relish in a UI’.

   It was the way the question was framed did not encourage me to do this. My admiration of the way the GAA is organized is not dependant on their being a United Ireland, so this dynamic to the question completely threw my good intentions, and led me off in another direction.

   Instead it encouraged me to consider all the twists and turns of how a UI might look, and the potential unionist place in a UI. Shame.

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6. Comment on For Unionists Only: What would you relish in a United Ireland?
   on 19 April 2012 at 5:39 pm

   Seeems to be a page worth of threads gone missing.

   From about 8pm last night (18 april) to about 2pm today.

   anyone else have this problem?

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7. Comment on For Unionists Only: What would you relish in a United Ireland?
   on 18 April 2012 at 11:46 pm

   Mick,

   may I genuinely suggest a future possible thread?

   along the lines of ‘nationalists, how should a United Ireland be governed’, or ‘nationalists, what would you put in place to accomodate and/or promote the unionist place in a United Ireland’. Actually perhaps unionists should be part of such a discussion too.

   The problem with the current thread is that unionists dont actually know what a United Ireland is, or their place in it ,and therefore feel moved to try and define it to some extent. Only then can they consider what to relish about this supposed entity?

   Its all just a bit too abstract this United Ireland business for unionists to consider what they might like about it. Too many unanswered questions. The nationalist thread is dealing more with current reality and is easier to answer, unionists have an extra hurdle to jump through having in the first place conceptualise any UI reality.

   Unionists might have found it less abstract and easier to answer something along the lines of ‘what do you like about the ROI and/or Irish culture, and maybe then we might have all joined in the mutual admiration society a bit more ha!

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8. Comment on For Nationalists Only: What’s great about living in the United Kingdom?
   on 18 April 2012 at 9:32 pm

   John, sk

   I think thats because of the way the 2 questions are framed.

   If the unionists had been asked for eg ‘what do you like about the ROI or Irish culture’ we might have had more ‘magnanimous’ answers. I dont think the question nationalists got asked, and the question unionists got asked are particularly similar.

   For the record I admire the localized way GAA is organized and promotes community spirit, pride in your local community and county rather than players jumping ship because they get paid more at a different club, like in association football. I didnt think the framing of the unionist question draws out such a response, sadly.

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9. Comment on For Unionists Only: What would you relish in a United Ireland?
   on 18 April 2012 at 8:43 pm

   The way the question is framed makes it more dificult-there are a few things i can admire about the way things are down down south or about irish culture, but i cant say i ‘relish’ much or anything about a United Ireland concept.

   It all depends on what is meant by a United Ireland for i dont believe the republican ideal of a 32 county irish republic bears much scrutiny. A London dimension is needed for NI so i guess if a ‘United Ireland’ means the island becoming more at ease and indeed embracing of a British dimension then that could be positive.De Facto joint authority over NI ?

   A United Ireland in the commonwealth with the Queen as head of state, with Stormont continuing as a regional executive. Or at least NI continuing in the commonwealth in a UI – not that much different from current situation.

   Perhaps I would relish the negotiations over a UI – Sinn Fein starting out like the cat who got the cream then seeing their republican demands diluted and diluted.

   As a minority the unionist identity might be stronger, more united and more self analysing in a positive way – for example we may become even more proud of and aware of the Ulster-scots identity and heritage. We would have to think hard and act smart to prevent our Gaelicisation over time. The rest of Gaelic Ireland might come to see Ulster scots as an excellent tradition of diversity worth preserving and to be protected and promoted, rather than undermined and attacked.

   The UlsterScots might really shake things up in a positive way – getting rid of the ridiculous position of neutrality the UlsterScots could be a prime mover in that.

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10. Comment on 100th Anniversary Titanic Commemoration Service
    on 17 April 2012 at 12:21 am

    Not sure about your cynicism FitzJH.

    I grew up in East Belfast the part of Belfast that grew up on the back of the shipyard and amongst an older generation it was remembered pretty seriously. I also remeber learning about it and doing a project about it in primary school and that was taken pretty seriously too. I think theres a respect and a conection to Titanic in Belfast, and particularly East Belfast, that has endured over the century

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