If Gerry McGeogh was responsible it is right that he be prosecuted. I previously said otherwise, but you can’t hold with that and still respect the court following the guilty verdict last month.
What is a disgrace is that he should have to serve even a minute in prison. We were told that the GFA provisions nullified the use of prosecuting Soldiers A-G or whoever they were that mowed down 14 innocent people in Derry. Yet its ok to punish ex-IRA offenders?
If that is seen as a sectarian view then so be it. There should be one rule for all. Prosecute, Sentence. Suspend.
See, Minister Greg Barker comments yesterday on government spending plans. He said the government was “making cuts that Margaret Thatcher could only have dreamt of”.
So these bastards are determined to smash the social welfare system, demolish the NHS, protect only the elite within society and adopt a foreign policy which is alienating the UK throughout the world.
I see only one solution; we must immediately accede from the UK and look for alternative sovereign opportunities. Do you think the South would still take us, or are we still damaged goods.
The two most famous products of Belfast industry; a shoddily made Protestant built ship that sank on its first voyage and a horrendously undriveable rust bucket of a Catholic built car which sunk almost as quickly.
All hail Ulster’s glorious industrial past. Should we not be trying to pass these disasters off on others instead of constantly drawing attention to them. I for one will be amending the Titanic Wikipedia entry to show the truth. IT WAS BULIT IN SOUTHAMPTON, we’d nothing to do with it. As for the Delorean, sure everyone knows that was manufactured in Prague.
“There is a continuing and compelling need to deter all other potential terrorists.”
That reasoning is completely flawed. If someone is convicted now of an offence that they committed post GFA they will serve the minimum term of their sentence, so for a similar offence, about 10-12 years.
This deters no one. What is it meant to deter people from… committing terrorist offences pre-1998? Bit late now, so is the real deterrent, not to get caught if you have committed such an offence in the past. Ludicrous.
It benefits no one and makes a mockery of victims of the security forces aggression. Either the CPS pursues all or none and either all those convicted should serve all or none of their sentences.
I for one would favour prosecuting all, sentencing and suspending it immediately.
“It was an attack on a young-man, his family, his friends, his colleagues, his community.”
That would be a murder. This was far worse than that. Terrorism is a higher level of crime, as Alex Peter Schmid puts it, it is a “super crime”. This was terrorism. It didn’t matter what his name was, were he lived, who his friends were. The only thing that singled him out was his religion and his profession.
This was not meant to achieve the death of an innocent young man but to generate fear among others like him. To terrify the Catholic Community so that they don’t look to careers in the police. So, it is very much a crime against the Catholic Community from people claiming to be Republicans.
“to present violence as the only possible catalyst for change”
That’s a very good point and it is worth debating particularly at this time, despite how insensitive it is.
It is very hard to understand the logic behind these sort of actions. Is it too naive to say that they lack any reason at all, that the motive isn’t to present violence as the only catalyst to change, but rather to engender fear through terrorism? That violence is the objective in itself.
And by terrorism, I mean a completely academic view of the term; i.e. violence to bring about some non-economic change in government (policy).
Do we give them too much credit? They don’t fit within traditional physical force Republicanism.
Geographically, they seem to be coming from Fermanagh and North Armagh; areas that were not as active in the early years of the PIRA and through informants or otherwise, disengaged before the 1994 ceasefire. Could they just be a group of people who missed the boat first time round, who feel they didn’t get their chance? If that was the case, then the violence really would be an end in itself.
To be completely cold about this – it should be portrayed as an an attack on the Catholic Community. He was only killed because he was a Catholic, if he had been a Protestant that would have been ‘tickety boo’ in the eyes of the Real IRA or whoever they claim to be.
If it is seen as such then this will serve to further alienate them from within the fringes of Republicanism, where Republican’s unsupportive of Sinn Fein and the GFA see this as an attack on them, on one of their own. That’s the way I see it.
I think that’s a useful way to see it and I hope that people who may flirt with romanticised notions of Republican armed struggle, particularly young people, will see it this way too.
This sort of murder is abhorrent to Republicanism, to traditional physical force republicanism of the early 70’s and even more so to the political Republicanism of today.
The IRA did not start out as sectarian. The likes of Brendan Hughes and Ivor Bell were not sectarian. That changed when tit for tat killings became the norm, when volunteers were permitted to be non-political. Republicanism should never be us against the Protestant people; here its us (a sickening sect on the fringes of extremism) against the Catholic people.
I’m a Republican, and like Ronan Kerr, I’m 25, from a Catholic family and work in law and order. This was an attack on someone like me, an attack on the Republican and Nationalist community from people purporting to be Republicans. Surely this can only serve to further alienate them from any potential support they might expect to generate.
I do agree; it is hard to disagree with the use of words, like ‘hero’ which under normal circumstances are entirely appropriate, while on the other hand criticise other’s political posturing over a very tragic murder.
When I heard of this, I identified with the fact that I am the same age (25), from the same Catholic background, and work in the same area; law and order, although from different positions. When I read the comments from the Chief Constable and others it jarred. It sounded like the same spiel that is offered in the event of the death of a soldier.
What I’m trying to say, rather clumsily, is that this was an attack by dissidents not against the police but against the Catholic community. That helps reinforce the separation between the community and these morons. But to describe it in traditional unionist phraseology, it depicts the attack as being against the police, the forces of the crown, the British/Unionist establishment. That being a Catholic policeman is to be a Unionist or British.
I would accept that its my fault for interpreting these sentiments in this way, but I would feel uncomfortable using such phrases, I think others might feel the same, I would just worry that they alienate the community rather than the perpetrators. I think that should be the only good that comes out of this; to further alienate and ostracise these people from all spheres of society, even anti-Sinn Fein republicans.
It’s not often we get free things to give away to our readers, but courtesy of Palgrave Macmillan we have a nice paperback copy of Brian M Walker’s excellent history of partition of the island and how identities shifted in both the north east and the south and west: as most of the territory that [...] read our review »
I’ve been catching up on some reading, recently. Most pleasantly surprised by John Drennan’s latest opus from Gill and Macmillan, Cute Hoors and Pious Protestors… It’s early days yet, but I was struck by this paragraph, part of a dissection of Fianna Fail near the beginning: One of the more fatal consequences of our colonial [...] read our review »
Not according to metallurgists Tim Foecke and Jennifer Hooper McCarty whose research has suggested that dodgy Harland and Wolff rivets were at fault for allowing the Titanic’s hull to be ripped apart by the pressure of the iceberg impact. With six of the hull’s chambers exposed to the Atlantic waters, the “unsinkable” ship lasted less [...] read our review »
Comment on McGeough sentenced to 20 years for attempted murder
on 6 April 2011 at 4:39 pm
If Gerry McGeogh was responsible it is right that he be prosecuted. I previously said otherwise, but you can’t hold with that and still respect the court following the guilty verdict last month.
What is a disgrace is that he should have to serve even a minute in prison. We were told that the GFA provisions nullified the use of prosecuting Soldiers A-G or whoever they were that mowed down 14 innocent people in Derry. Yet its ok to punish ex-IRA offenders?
If that is seen as a sectarian view then so be it. There should be one rule for all. Prosecute, Sentence. Suspend.
Go to comment
Comment on Cameron’s foreign policy and Chaos Theory
on 6 April 2011 at 3:40 pm
Cameron is worse.
See, Minister Greg Barker comments yesterday on government spending plans. He said the government was “making cuts that Margaret Thatcher could only have dreamt of”.
So these bastards are determined to smash the social welfare system, demolish the NHS, protect only the elite within society and adopt a foreign policy which is alienating the UK throughout the world.
I see only one solution; we must immediately accede from the UK and look for alternative sovereign opportunities. Do you think the South would still take us, or are we still damaged goods.
Go to comment
Comment on POTD – Everyone wants to be Kate Winslet
on 6 April 2011 at 3:32 pm
The two most famous products of Belfast industry; a shoddily made Protestant built ship that sank on its first voyage and a horrendously undriveable rust bucket of a Catholic built car which sunk almost as quickly.
All hail Ulster’s glorious industrial past. Should we not be trying to pass these disasters off on others instead of constantly drawing attention to them. I for one will be amending the Titanic Wikipedia entry to show the truth. IT WAS BULIT IN SOUTHAMPTON, we’d nothing to do with it. As for the Delorean, sure everyone knows that was manufactured in Prague.
Go to comment
Comment on POTD – They still have to clean up from last wednesday
on 6 April 2011 at 3:18 pm
See no one wants to work past 65
Go to comment
Comment on McGeough sentenced to 20 years for attempted murder
on 6 April 2011 at 3:08 pm
“There is a continuing and compelling need to deter all other potential terrorists.”
That reasoning is completely flawed. If someone is convicted now of an offence that they committed post GFA they will serve the minimum term of their sentence, so for a similar offence, about 10-12 years.
This deters no one. What is it meant to deter people from… committing terrorist offences pre-1998? Bit late now, so is the real deterrent, not to get caught if you have committed such an offence in the past. Ludicrous.
It benefits no one and makes a mockery of victims of the security forces aggression. Either the CPS pursues all or none and either all those convicted should serve all or none of their sentences.
I for one would favour prosecuting all, sentencing and suspending it immediately.
Go to comment
Comment on The response to Con. Kerr’s murder must be measured yet decisive
on 4 April 2011 at 4:47 pm
Lionel,
I think you are being a little naive.
“It was an attack on a young-man, his family, his friends, his colleagues, his community.”
That would be a murder. This was far worse than that. Terrorism is a higher level of crime, as Alex Peter Schmid puts it, it is a “super crime”. This was terrorism. It didn’t matter what his name was, were he lived, who his friends were. The only thing that singled him out was his religion and his profession.
This was not meant to achieve the death of an innocent young man but to generate fear among others like him. To terrify the Catholic Community so that they don’t look to careers in the police. So, it is very much a crime against the Catholic Community from people claiming to be Republicans.
Go to comment
Comment on “Redoubling your effort, when you have forgotten your aim”
on 4 April 2011 at 4:29 pm
“to present violence as the only possible catalyst for change”
That’s a very good point and it is worth debating particularly at this time, despite how insensitive it is.
It is very hard to understand the logic behind these sort of actions. Is it too naive to say that they lack any reason at all, that the motive isn’t to present violence as the only catalyst to change, but rather to engender fear through terrorism? That violence is the objective in itself.
And by terrorism, I mean a completely academic view of the term; i.e. violence to bring about some non-economic change in government (policy).
Do we give them too much credit? They don’t fit within traditional physical force Republicanism.
Geographically, they seem to be coming from Fermanagh and North Armagh; areas that were not as active in the early years of the PIRA and through informants or otherwise, disengaged before the 1994 ceasefire. Could they just be a group of people who missed the boat first time round, who feel they didn’t get their chance? If that was the case, then the violence really would be an end in itself.
Go to comment
Comment on The response to Con. Kerr’s murder must be measured yet decisive
on 4 April 2011 at 4:05 pm
Lionel Hutz, Nightrider,
To be completely cold about this – it should be portrayed as an an attack on the Catholic Community. He was only killed because he was a Catholic, if he had been a Protestant that would have been ‘tickety boo’ in the eyes of the Real IRA or whoever they claim to be.
If it is seen as such then this will serve to further alienate them from within the fringes of Republicanism, where Republican’s unsupportive of Sinn Fein and the GFA see this as an attack on them, on one of their own. That’s the way I see it.
I think that’s a useful way to see it and I hope that people who may flirt with romanticised notions of Republican armed struggle, particularly young people, will see it this way too.
Go to comment
Comment on On the politics of killing Catholic policemen…
on 4 April 2011 at 3:57 pm
Really well put article.
BTB summed it up well, what did it achieve?
This sort of murder is abhorrent to Republicanism, to traditional physical force republicanism of the early 70’s and even more so to the political Republicanism of today.
The IRA did not start out as sectarian. The likes of Brendan Hughes and Ivor Bell were not sectarian. That changed when tit for tat killings became the norm, when volunteers were permitted to be non-political. Republicanism should never be us against the Protestant people; here its us (a sickening sect on the fringes of extremism) against the Catholic people.
I’m a Republican, and like Ronan Kerr, I’m 25, from a Catholic family and work in law and order. This was an attack on someone like me, an attack on the Republican and Nationalist community from people purporting to be Republicans. Surely this can only serve to further alienate them from any potential support they might expect to generate.
Go to comment
Comment on The response to Con. Kerr’s murder must be measured yet decisive
on 4 April 2011 at 2:58 pm
Vanhelsing,
I do agree; it is hard to disagree with the use of words, like ‘hero’ which under normal circumstances are entirely appropriate, while on the other hand criticise other’s political posturing over a very tragic murder.
When I heard of this, I identified with the fact that I am the same age (25), from the same Catholic background, and work in the same area; law and order, although from different positions. When I read the comments from the Chief Constable and others it jarred. It sounded like the same spiel that is offered in the event of the death of a soldier.
What I’m trying to say, rather clumsily, is that this was an attack by dissidents not against the police but against the Catholic community. That helps reinforce the separation between the community and these morons. But to describe it in traditional unionist phraseology, it depicts the attack as being against the police, the forces of the crown, the British/Unionist establishment. That being a Catholic policeman is to be a Unionist or British.
I would accept that its my fault for interpreting these sentiments in this way, but I would feel uncomfortable using such phrases, I think others might feel the same, I would just worry that they alienate the community rather than the perpetrators. I think that should be the only good that comes out of this; to further alienate and ostracise these people from all spheres of society, even anti-Sinn Fein republicans.
Go to comment