Patrick Magee came close to killing one of Ireland’s greatest enemies and he was without doubt a tenacious enemy of the English establishment. Although history will place him in the camp of what might have been, inhabited by folk like Georg Elser, the lone carpenter who almost assassinated Hitler. (And no I am not directly comparing Thatcher and Adolf)
If we are looking for Englishmen who were enemies of the English state, Tom Pain is a worthy choice.
Although is we are judging on scale Napoleon takes some beating, but Gandhi must be right up there and we should not overlook the fact it was the men of 1916 and the Irish war of independence whose example inspired anti imperialists throughout the world to throw of the yoke of the British empire, so Dev must be included in any list.
One of the reasons I regard Oona King as lightweight is she believed she could become Baroness King of Bow and combine that with being a democratically elected politician, can you imagine what Boris and his pals at the Standard would have made of that if she had been the candidate. She also supported the Iraq war which for many voters in London is regarded as unforgivable.
Myself I feel the mayor should be restricted to two terms and then that’s it, Prime Ministers too, but we are where we are.
A neat way to sidestep my point, but are you really saying readers would have realised from your header that in this contest every single vote is going to count! (By the way I thought that was taken as read, it certainly is in the Livingstone camp)
Jimmy
Ona is a lightweight, I doubt she would even have been able to get the Labour vote out in core inner London constituencies.
The problem with left wing politicians like Ken is they almost never groom a viable successor, and overstay their welcome. Having said that if I have to choose between Johnson or Ken, it is Ken all the way. After the coalition I doubt many voters will even poke the Lib dem with a very long stick.
Ken has a proven track record and was a successful mayor, Boris is offering what? More of the same and for most Londoners it has been pretty thin gruel.
His proposal for an airport in the Thames estuary is an outrage, a regurgitation from another age, one which I doubt, and hope will never be built. With the high speed train link to Birmingham, any new airport should be in the midlands as it would help lift the economies of the north, etc and shift the balance away from the south east.
Why not just come out with it and say you and your London Tory mates support Boris.
Johnson in his statement is not making peace with London’s Irish, he is trying to hoodwink them, we both understand that, so less of such crap. He is a class prejudiced toff who masquerades as a good old boy, but not being anything of the sort, he often trips over his own feet and then he comes out with insincere tosh like this insulting mockney apology, which you describe as making peace with the Irish.
Whilst we are on the Labour Party, that pro Boris Johnson add slugger is carrying is a new low for this site. Is slugger really going to go the same way as US TV, showing political spoilers for cash. The end result being it is not the politics of the candidates which decide the election, but the candidate with the biggest pot to fund these adds.
There are major political differences between Livingstone and Johnson, do we really need to reduce this contest to the gutter when there is so much politically we can chew over?
“What he saw was a pimple which he mistook for the pox . And he then enlisted with the real pox to fight a pimple.”
Exactly, and when the pox in human form goes off bombing, killing and maiming peoples who are no threat to the USA, or it’s interests, they become media cheerleaders.
Not sure what you find ridiculous about Ken’s suggestion, that Gay bankers exist?
They will not be lining up to work in Dubai,
Or that country like many in the islamic world has homophobia writ large all over it?
Was it that long ago when a man and woman got sent to prison for shagging on the beach? If you were a male City banker would you really take a moonlight stroll with your boyfriend along a Dubai beach?
“One other point, the principle of not negotiating with terrorists is universally held.”
Alias
With respect you are wrong, governments have always talked to armed insurgents.
The British became a past master of such negotiations when the negotiated the empire away, yet somehow remained in control of the new states economies, etc, and lived on friendly terms with the new leaders, who only months before they publicly called terrorists.
Look at how HMG man managed Nelson Mandela, in the eyes of the Foreign office he went from being a terrorists to a freedom fighter in, well, the blink of an eye. (also take a look at how they treat deputy first Minister McGuinness).
Both the US and British governments are currently negotiating with the Talaban, there is no cease fire is there?
“The notion that the government would be sitting down for cosy chats with such people about how comfortable they could make prison life for them would have been unthinkable. It might well have been enough to bring the government down.”
Decimus
Well that is all right then, the deaths of 61 people, 35 civilians, weighed less heavy on the Thatcher government than the ghastly women’s reputation as the Iron Lady.
It is nonsensical to claim her government could have fallen, not least because as far as the British Labour Party and the rest of the Westminster Parties was concerned, they operated a bipartisan policy over the six counties. Indeed at this time, the shadow LP northern Ireland secretary went into the Maze and told the hunger strikers they should give up their fast, as they could not expect any help from the Labour benches.
Indeed the truth of this pudding is in its eating, when the Thatcher governments eventually made major concessions to the republican and loyalist prisoners, it did not raise so much as a murmur in the media and amongst the political elites.
As far as the north east of Ireland was concerned, from over looking decades of sectarian Unionist rule, Bloody Sunday, mass internment, shoot to kill, Gibraltar, etc, etc, these reprehensible political elites at Westminster, whether Tory or Labour, and their intel gofers, were truly all in this together.
Besides if the provo leadership and Thatcher government had done a deal to end the H/S it would have quickly become public knowledge. The only reason I can see why they wanted this back channel kept quiet, was their fear it might fail, and that is what why they did not want it revealed. (until a time that is, when it would be to their advantage)
Ed Moloney’s Voices from the Grave: Two Men’s War in Ireland has received considerable attention in the press and in the public realm since its publication earlier this year. Although the book relates the experiences of the Provisional IRA’s Brendan Hughes and the PUP/UVF’s David Ervine, much of the discussion has focused on Hughes’ stories [...] read our review »
Having somehow managed to avoid watching a single episode of the widely praised West Wing TV series I was delighted to discover the entire Box set in my Christmas stocking – and with enough spare time over the holidays to give it a good lash. But with 10 episodes of the first series under my [...] read our review »
I’m currently trawling through Norman Davies’s fabulous new tome – “Vanished Kingdoms” – Five stars in the (London) Telegraph’s review from Ben Wilson: All the nations that have ever lived have left their footsteps in the sand,” writes Norman Davies. “The traces fade with every tide, the echoes grow faint, the images are fractured, the human [...] read our review »
Comment on Who was Britain’s most formidable enemy?
on 16 March 2012 at 2:19 pm
Patrick Magee came close to killing one of Ireland’s greatest enemies and he was without doubt a tenacious enemy of the English establishment. Although history will place him in the camp of what might have been, inhabited by folk like Georg Elser, the lone carpenter who almost assassinated Hitler. (And no I am not directly comparing Thatcher and Adolf)
If we are looking for Englishmen who were enemies of the English state, Tom Pain is a worthy choice.
Although is we are judging on scale Napoleon takes some beating, but Gandhi must be right up there and we should not overlook the fact it was the men of 1916 and the Irish war of independence whose example inspired anti imperialists throughout the world to throw of the yoke of the British empire, so Dev must be included in any list.
Go to comment
Comment on Boris makes peace with London Irish before election day…
on 14 March 2012 at 5:02 pm
Jimmy,
One of the reasons I regard Oona King as lightweight is she believed she could become Baroness King of Bow and combine that with being a democratically elected politician, can you imagine what Boris and his pals at the Standard would have made of that if she had been the candidate. She also supported the Iraq war which for many voters in London is regarded as unforgivable.
Myself I feel the mayor should be restricted to two terms and then that’s it, Prime Ministers too, but we are where we are.
Go to comment
Comment on Boris makes peace with London Irish before election day…
on 14 March 2012 at 1:06 pm
Mick
A neat way to sidestep my point, but are you really saying readers would have realised from your header that in this contest every single vote is going to count! (By the way I thought that was taken as read, it certainly is in the Livingstone camp)
Jimmy
Ona is a lightweight, I doubt she would even have been able to get the Labour vote out in core inner London constituencies.
The problem with left wing politicians like Ken is they almost never groom a viable successor, and overstay their welcome. Having said that if I have to choose between Johnson or Ken, it is Ken all the way. After the coalition I doubt many voters will even poke the Lib dem with a very long stick.
Ken has a proven track record and was a successful mayor, Boris is offering what? More of the same and for most Londoners it has been pretty thin gruel.
His proposal for an airport in the Thames estuary is an outrage, a regurgitation from another age, one which I doubt, and hope will never be built. With the high speed train link to Birmingham, any new airport should be in the midlands as it would help lift the economies of the north, etc and shift the balance away from the south east.
Go to comment
Comment on Boris makes peace with London Irish before election day…
on 14 March 2012 at 12:25 pm
Mick,
Why not just come out with it and say you and your London Tory mates support Boris.
Johnson in his statement is not making peace with London’s Irish, he is trying to hoodwink them, we both understand that, so less of such crap. He is a class prejudiced toff who masquerades as a good old boy, but not being anything of the sort, he often trips over his own feet and then he comes out with insincere tosh like this insulting mockney apology, which you describe as making peace with the Irish.
Was Liverpool so long ago?
Go to comment
Comment on Labour Party in Northern Ireland – conference on Saturday #lpniconf
on 9 March 2012 at 12:47 pm
Whilst we are on the Labour Party, that pro Boris Johnson add slugger is carrying is a new low for this site. Is slugger really going to go the same way as US TV, showing political spoilers for cash. The end result being it is not the politics of the candidates which decide the election, but the candidate with the biggest pot to fund these adds.
There are major political differences between Livingstone and Johnson, do we really need to reduce this contest to the gutter when there is so much politically we can chew over?
Not Sluggers finest hour.
Go to comment
Comment on US blogger (and professional trouble maker) Andrew Breitbart dies…
on 5 March 2012 at 1:46 pm
“What he saw was a pimple which he mistook for the pox . And he then enlisted with the real pox to fight a pimple.”
Exactly, and when the pox in human form goes off bombing, killing and maiming peoples who are no threat to the USA, or it’s interests, they become media cheerleaders.
[Mind your language - Mods]
By the way great quote Greenflag
Go to comment
Comment on Boris and Ken: A Gaffe-Tastic Election Race
on 13 February 2012 at 12:32 pm
Brian
Not sure what you find ridiculous about Ken’s suggestion, that Gay bankers exist?
They will not be lining up to work in Dubai,
Or that country like many in the islamic world has homophobia writ large all over it?
Was it that long ago when a man and woman got sent to prison for shagging on the beach? If you were a male City banker would you really take a moonlight stroll with your boyfriend along a Dubai beach?
I would suggest not if you value your freedom.
Go to comment
Comment on Further to Morrison’s attempted revisionism
on 17 January 2012 at 12:20 pm
“One other point, the principle of not negotiating with terrorists is universally held.”
Alias
With respect you are wrong, governments have always talked to armed insurgents.
The British became a past master of such negotiations when the negotiated the empire away, yet somehow remained in control of the new states economies, etc, and lived on friendly terms with the new leaders, who only months before they publicly called terrorists.
Look at how HMG man managed Nelson Mandela, in the eyes of the Foreign office he went from being a terrorists to a freedom fighter in, well, the blink of an eye. (also take a look at how they treat deputy first Minister McGuinness).
Both the US and British governments are currently negotiating with the Talaban, there is no cease fire is there?
Go to comment
Comment on Further to Morrison’s attempted revisionism
on 17 January 2012 at 11:30 am
Dixie Elliott has a moving article piece about why he supports Ricky O’Rawe here,
http://is.gd/hW4rHJ
Go to comment
Comment on Further to Morrison’s attempted revisionism
on 17 January 2012 at 11:26 am
“The notion that the government would be sitting down for cosy chats with such people about how comfortable they could make prison life for them would have been unthinkable. It might well have been enough to bring the government down.”
Decimus
Well that is all right then, the deaths of 61 people, 35 civilians, weighed less heavy on the Thatcher government than the ghastly women’s reputation as the Iron Lady.
It is nonsensical to claim her government could have fallen, not least because as far as the British Labour Party and the rest of the Westminster Parties was concerned, they operated a bipartisan policy over the six counties. Indeed at this time, the shadow LP northern Ireland secretary went into the Maze and told the hunger strikers they should give up their fast, as they could not expect any help from the Labour benches.
Indeed the truth of this pudding is in its eating, when the Thatcher governments eventually made major concessions to the republican and loyalist prisoners, it did not raise so much as a murmur in the media and amongst the political elites.
As far as the north east of Ireland was concerned, from over looking decades of sectarian Unionist rule, Bloody Sunday, mass internment, shoot to kill, Gibraltar, etc, etc, these reprehensible political elites at Westminster, whether Tory or Labour, and their intel gofers, were truly all in this together.
Besides if the provo leadership and Thatcher government had done a deal to end the H/S it would have quickly become public knowledge. The only reason I can see why they wanted this back channel kept quiet, was their fear it might fail, and that is what why they did not want it revealed. (until a time that is, when it would be to their advantage)
Go to comment