Jim Wells said he finds gay ‘Behaviour’ repugnant, as do I. Am I entitled to that view? Yes, as is Mr Wells. Do gays have the right to prance around in a Parade to celebrate that vileness that is Homosexuality? Yes, they have that right. I don’t accept it, but isn’t that what tolerance is?
Politicians ‘are’ private citizens too it’s just not acceptable to expect them to have a corporate view of every issue without them also having a moral or ethical view on it also. So let’s tolerate other people’s views because in the mind of the Diversity fanatics it appears to only go one way.
It’s like still a cold house for loyalism. No one seems to want to help the communities that I come from and this to me is a result of it.” (Quoted by Jim Wilson)
So what he is essentially saying is that any Social deprivation, Unemployment and alienation by the Protestant working class is not a matter for Stormont or Westminster and any Grievance should be taken out on the Nearest available Catholics?
If Working class Loyalism want their issues to be heard then they should be at the steps of Stormont or the Gates of Westminster, they were never taught to question their loyalty or indeed their allegiances, The Unionist establishment used them for their own ends in that respect.
As an old Tigers Bay man once told me that in the Thirties the local UU representatives came round and shouted. ‘Even if you’re hungry and living without hope, isn’t it a great thing that we saved you from the pope’.
You see Working class loyalism is living with decades of Historical and Political manipulation, afraid or unwilling to challenge the system and its effects due to ingrained loyalty, political and economic hegemony, coupled with an ingrained hatred of the Traditional enemy, The Fenians. They simply can’t change.
So if social deprivation and alienation is good enough for British people in Manchester, Tyneside, Liverpool or anywhere else then there is therefore no special dispensation for East Belfast Loyalists. They wanted the defeat of Republicanism, the Union secured, they got both and more and have found out that they are nothing special and the Working class issues that involved the rest of us in the real world applies to them now. Hell slap it into them.
We Would need to have peace first before any analysis of personal ambition.
Living in a fairly peaceful society where the protagonists have agreed to stop killing each other is not my idea of Peace and if last nights shenanigans are to go by.
People here are tribal, Individuals are far and few between, we can all respect them either in Ballymurphy or Rathcoole but allegiance is always to the Tribe.
Also our sporting stars like Higgins, Best, and Now Rory(Mary Peters excluded) will afford to live away in plush suburban surroundings either in North Down or the English shires, able to afford thier way out, While the rest of Tribal Northern Ireland will be told how to use them as an example of Normality.
It’s that time of year again folks, the inevitable groundhog day. As Eddie above says ‘The Union is secure and they have almost cultural supremacy’. Could it be that Working class Militant Unionists are therfore just plain stupid coupled with the ingrained and instilled Hatred of Catholics?
Its usual and unlikely that the Unionist establishment is going to condemn this as the would say a Racist attack, after all they made the sectarian mob that is its power base moulded and manipulated over 50 years. This is also not an issue of Protestant economic disadvantage, Its blind sectarian Hatred.
Quoting JR,
‘’in my view Kingsmill is one of the worst if not the worst incidents in all the troubles. It is and will always be blight on the Republican moment’’. Just this one??
Anyway back to the Topic, it was obvious to all that the HET enquiry would come up with the same conclusions; the dogs in the street knew it was a Sectarian revenge attack for Loyalist murders.
I was discussing the same incident some years ago with a fairly well placed Republican who had said to me that on the Night of the Murders the events more or less happened as we know. However he did tell me that when the IRA men asked for any Catholic Workers one was pointed out by the other Protestant workers with an enthusiasm. Then thinking that the IRA were going to kill the Catholic they then got a nasty surprise. He also said it put an end ‘temporarily’ too loyalist killings. I know it’s only one version, it’s not meant to cause offence and probably urban myth but a version nonetheless. I did not believe him at the time but knowing the Sectarian hatred at the time and the value placed by some Protestants on the lives of Catholics it’s not completely dismissible.
I think everyone Including the Archbishop has the moral duty to call to account the Policies of the Political class. Most people disagree with Government policy and are ignored, when a high profile critic does it we see the usual securalist rabble come out of the woodwork to scream interferance.
Of course religous interferance by Mad clerics has played such a negative part in this country its difficult to not see the same perceptions, Nevertheless Nationally I would say the comments are healthy critisms and a form of checks and balances.
”Am I the only one who sees this result as an embarrassment for the SDLP. SF without Mr Adams and the recent controversy regarding McArdle still returned home with a massive majority”
It’s nothing to do with the SDLP or Personalities or Policies for that matter or any aversion of Sinn Fiens dirty laundry so to speak. Basically what you have is an electorate that are Just Stupid; I can’t put it any other way. The people are stuck in a perpetual groundhog day. If one can remember the old adage if you put a Union Jack or a Tri-Colour or on a Donkey people will vote for it. People just vote for their allegiances. I mean what has Sinn Fien actually achieved? People in WB just can’t be morally turned off by SF because they still haven’t reached political maturity. Remember Connor Murphy’s infamous ‘There will not be water charges’ before an assembly election a few years ago? Then he conveniently reneged on it. So the populace are incapable of giving an objective decision at Elections and the Politicians know it.
It certainly was not a ringing endorsement for SF or Maskey but it was the monotonous result we expected.
Do people honestly think (Including the family of Ms Travers) that the farce that is the Stormont executive, that Sinn Fein is not using people with a shady past as advisors and aides? It’s been happening for years. Nepotism is rife within the Republican Community, be it the Monopolising of the Falls Taxi Association of Taxi routes (If people recall the FTA was part of the IRA war machine) Private taxi firms and other businesses invested into by The Corporate part of the Republican Movement in West Belfast. They have been given carte blanche to do what they like.
What really gets to me is that Peter Robinson has the audacity to call the situation insensitive! Didn’t he know what was going on at Stormont with Sinn Fein? I mean the Hero of Clontiberet, Vanguard and third force activist and a quick internet picture search shows him holding a Kalashnikov Rifle. Kettle-black springs to mind.
People can’t get offended when these people step out of line or offend moral decency. People voted for the farce, they voted for Terrorists and Fundamentalist fanatics to be in Power. In the last election it was the usual sectarian headcount and we expect them not to employ their henchmen and women? Mrs Travers should get over it, the mistake was made with the GFA that we are stuck with it, power sharing is a failure and Stormont is nothing more than a glorified civil service based on sectarian lines We have the head of a Terrorist Organisation as Joint first minister and people are concerned about an advisor?. Ann Travers feels physically sick at the appointment how does she think the families of the disappeared feel? When they see the perpetrators of terrible violence upon their families talk on TV about ‘moving forward’. Maybe it’s just me but that type of peace is not good enough for me. It’s not good enough that the people who tore the country apart for 30 years are rewarded with power they never deserved. Stalemate is just not good enough and the majority of people are too stupid to know better and to vote for anything different. You accept Terrorists and Bigots in Government or you don’t, the choice is one’s own.
Re: Dewi
It’s a Theory that Hitler after knowing he had lost the battle of Stalingrad sacrificed the 6th as a massive delaying tactic as he knew that the war was finished after the loss,
A German withdrawal would have been a morale booster for the Soviets; it might have made it even more difficult for the Soviets to advance against Germany in the face of regrouped German forces. It tied up Massive Soviet Forces for at least year. It’s also likely that by sacrificing the 6th Army the Germans salvaged their southern flank from total annihilation. Therefore by the Soviets in full pursuit of a mass German withdrawal it’s logical to suggest that the Soviets would have arrived on mainland Europe a Lot sooner.
Lets not forget the first Liberation of Stalingrad ‘by’ the Germans. Or as usual we airbrush Stalins USSR and its evil regime out of History?
I have full respect for the men of 6th Army who fell at Stalingrad.
Perhaps the person in the video may or may not have been aware that the siege of Stalingrad may have lengthened the war, if not and the mass German retreat happened earlier its assumed that the Russians may have got into mainland Europe a year earlier before the allies. In retrospect the gentleman in Question may owe his freedom and all our freedom to the 6th Armys delaying tactics at Stalingrad.
In fact its said that if it wasn’t for the Russians we would all be speaking German, in fact if it wasn’t for the Germans we would all be speaking Russian. I know which one I prefer.
I’ve been catching up on some reading, recently. Most pleasantly surprised by John Drennan’s latest opus from Gill and Macmillan, Cute Hoors and Pious Protestors… It’s early days yet, but I was struck by this paragraph, part of a dissection of Fianna Fail near the beginning: One of the more fatal consequences of our colonial [...] read our review »
Are you confused about ‘dissident’ Irish Republicanism? Anxious about its existence and its seemingly increasingly deadly capabilities? Martyn Frampton’s new book, Legion of the Rearguard: Dissident Irish Republicanism (Irish Academic Press, 2011) serves both as a primer on active dissident groups and a timely analysis of their historic significance and contemporary capabilities. This book clears [...] read our review »
It’s not published until 3rd March, but one book I recommend you place an advance order for from Slugger’s Bookstore is James Harkin’s Niche. Belfast émigré Harkin examines a number of stories from business, culture and politics and comes to a single insight: everywhere the broad middle is collapsing. He offers Woolworths as an iconic exemplar [...] read our review »
Comment on Belfast Pride: repugnant or still needed after all these years?
on 9 August 2011 at 9:25 am
Jim Wells said he finds gay ‘Behaviour’ repugnant, as do I. Am I entitled to that view? Yes, as is Mr Wells. Do gays have the right to prance around in a Parade to celebrate that vileness that is Homosexuality? Yes, they have that right. I don’t accept it, but isn’t that what tolerance is?
Politicians ‘are’ private citizens too it’s just not acceptable to expect them to have a corporate view of every issue without them also having a moral or ethical view on it also. So let’s tolerate other people’s views because in the mind of the Diversity fanatics it appears to only go one way.
Go to comment
Comment on On that cold house for loyalism……
on 22 June 2011 at 8:40 am
It’s like still a cold house for loyalism. No one seems to want to help the communities that I come from and this to me is a result of it.” (Quoted by Jim Wilson)
So what he is essentially saying is that any Social deprivation, Unemployment and alienation by the Protestant working class is not a matter for Stormont or Westminster and any Grievance should be taken out on the Nearest available Catholics?
If Working class Loyalism want their issues to be heard then they should be at the steps of Stormont or the Gates of Westminster, they were never taught to question their loyalty or indeed their allegiances, The Unionist establishment used them for their own ends in that respect.
As an old Tigers Bay man once told me that in the Thirties the local UU representatives came round and shouted. ‘Even if you’re hungry and living without hope, isn’t it a great thing that we saved you from the pope’.
You see Working class loyalism is living with decades of Historical and Political manipulation, afraid or unwilling to challenge the system and its effects due to ingrained loyalty, political and economic hegemony, coupled with an ingrained hatred of the Traditional enemy, The Fenians. They simply can’t change.
So if social deprivation and alienation is good enough for British people in Manchester, Tyneside, Liverpool or anywhere else then there is therefore no special dispensation for East Belfast Loyalists. They wanted the defeat of Republicanism, the Union secured, they got both and more and have found out that they are nothing special and the Working class issues that involved the rest of us in the real world applies to them now. Hell slap it into them.
Go to comment
Comment on Are we lacking in our individual ambition now we have ‘peace’?
on 21 June 2011 at 11:35 am
We Would need to have peace first before any analysis of personal ambition.
Living in a fairly peaceful society where the protagonists have agreed to stop killing each other is not my idea of Peace and if last nights shenanigans are to go by.
People here are tribal, Individuals are far and few between, we can all respect them either in Ballymurphy or Rathcoole but allegiance is always to the Tribe.
Also our sporting stars like Higgins, Best, and Now Rory(Mary Peters excluded) will afford to live away in plush suburban surroundings either in North Down or the English shires, able to afford thier way out, While the rest of Tribal Northern Ireland will be told how to use them as an example of Normality.
Go to comment
Comment on “They’ve hit homes with paint bombs, pipe bombs and petrol bombs.”
on 21 June 2011 at 9:03 am
It’s that time of year again folks, the inevitable groundhog day. As Eddie above says ‘The Union is secure and they have almost cultural supremacy’. Could it be that Working class Militant Unionists are therfore just plain stupid coupled with the ingrained and instilled Hatred of Catholics?
Its usual and unlikely that the Unionist establishment is going to condemn this as the would say a Racist attack, after all they made the sectarian mob that is its power base moulded and manipulated over 50 years. This is also not an issue of Protestant economic disadvantage, Its blind sectarian Hatred.
Go to comment
Comment on HET Report on Kingsmills
on 17 June 2011 at 9:00 am
Quoting JR,
‘’in my view Kingsmill is one of the worst if not the worst incidents in all the troubles. It is and will always be blight on the Republican moment’’. Just this one??
Anyway back to the Topic, it was obvious to all that the HET enquiry would come up with the same conclusions; the dogs in the street knew it was a Sectarian revenge attack for Loyalist murders.
I was discussing the same incident some years ago with a fairly well placed Republican who had said to me that on the Night of the Murders the events more or less happened as we know. However he did tell me that when the IRA men asked for any Catholic Workers one was pointed out by the other Protestant workers with an enthusiasm. Then thinking that the IRA were going to kill the Catholic they then got a nasty surprise. He also said it put an end ‘temporarily’ too loyalist killings. I know it’s only one version, it’s not meant to cause offence and probably urban myth but a version nonetheless. I did not believe him at the time but knowing the Sectarian hatred at the time and the value placed by some Protestants on the lives of Catholics it’s not completely dismissible.
Go to comment
Comment on “So stick to the day job, archbishop, I’d say”
on 11 June 2011 at 10:23 am
I think everyone Including the Archbishop has the moral duty to call to account the Policies of the Political class. Most people disagree with Government policy and are ignored, when a high profile critic does it we see the usual securalist rabble come out of the woodwork to scream interferance.
Of course religous interferance by Mad clerics has played such a negative part in this country its difficult to not see the same perceptions, Nevertheless Nationally I would say the comments are healthy critisms and a form of checks and balances.
Go to comment
Comment on And the #belw11 winners were … Paul Maskey (26% of the electorate) and the EONI (165 minutes)
on 10 June 2011 at 11:52 am
Quoting John (no offence)
”Am I the only one who sees this result as an embarrassment for the SDLP. SF without Mr Adams and the recent controversy regarding McArdle still returned home with a massive majority”
It’s nothing to do with the SDLP or Personalities or Policies for that matter or any aversion of Sinn Fiens dirty laundry so to speak. Basically what you have is an electorate that are Just Stupid; I can’t put it any other way. The people are stuck in a perpetual groundhog day. If one can remember the old adage if you put a Union Jack or a Tri-Colour or on a Donkey people will vote for it. People just vote for their allegiances. I mean what has Sinn Fien actually achieved? People in WB just can’t be morally turned off by SF because they still haven’t reached political maturity. Remember Connor Murphy’s infamous ‘There will not be water charges’ before an assembly election a few years ago? Then he conveniently reneged on it. So the populace are incapable of giving an objective decision at Elections and the Politicians know it.
It certainly was not a ringing endorsement for SF or Maskey but it was the monotonous result we expected.
Go to comment
Comment on A calculated insult to victims
on 26 May 2011 at 1:00 pm
Do people honestly think (Including the family of Ms Travers) that the farce that is the Stormont executive, that Sinn Fein is not using people with a shady past as advisors and aides? It’s been happening for years. Nepotism is rife within the Republican Community, be it the Monopolising of the Falls Taxi Association of Taxi routes (If people recall the FTA was part of the IRA war machine) Private taxi firms and other businesses invested into by The Corporate part of the Republican Movement in West Belfast. They have been given carte blanche to do what they like.
What really gets to me is that Peter Robinson has the audacity to call the situation insensitive! Didn’t he know what was going on at Stormont with Sinn Fein? I mean the Hero of Clontiberet, Vanguard and third force activist and a quick internet picture search shows him holding a Kalashnikov Rifle. Kettle-black springs to mind.
People can’t get offended when these people step out of line or offend moral decency. People voted for the farce, they voted for Terrorists and Fundamentalist fanatics to be in Power. In the last election it was the usual sectarian headcount and we expect them not to employ their henchmen and women? Mrs Travers should get over it, the mistake was made with the GFA that we are stuck with it, power sharing is a failure and Stormont is nothing more than a glorified civil service based on sectarian lines We have the head of a Terrorist Organisation as Joint first minister and people are concerned about an advisor?. Ann Travers feels physically sick at the appointment how does she think the families of the disappeared feel? When they see the perpetrators of terrible violence upon their families talk on TV about ‘moving forward’. Maybe it’s just me but that type of peace is not good enough for me. It’s not good enough that the people who tore the country apart for 30 years are rewarded with power they never deserved. Stalemate is just not good enough and the majority of people are too stupid to know better and to vote for anything different. You accept Terrorists and Bigots in Government or you don’t, the choice is one’s own.
Go to comment
Comment on The Liberation of Stalingrad.
on 29 March 2011 at 11:36 am
Re: Dewi
It’s a Theory that Hitler after knowing he had lost the battle of Stalingrad sacrificed the 6th as a massive delaying tactic as he knew that the war was finished after the loss,
A German withdrawal would have been a morale booster for the Soviets; it might have made it even more difficult for the Soviets to advance against Germany in the face of regrouped German forces. It tied up Massive Soviet Forces for at least year. It’s also likely that by sacrificing the 6th Army the Germans salvaged their southern flank from total annihilation. Therefore by the Soviets in full pursuit of a mass German withdrawal it’s logical to suggest that the Soviets would have arrived on mainland Europe a Lot sooner.
Go to comment
Comment on The Liberation of Stalingrad.
on 27 March 2011 at 11:26 am
Lets not forget the first Liberation of Stalingrad ‘by’ the Germans. Or as usual we airbrush Stalins USSR and its evil regime out of History?
I have full respect for the men of 6th Army who fell at Stalingrad.
Perhaps the person in the video may or may not have been aware that the siege of Stalingrad may have lengthened the war, if not and the mass German retreat happened earlier its assumed that the Russians may have got into mainland Europe a year earlier before the allies. In retrospect the gentleman in Question may owe his freedom and all our freedom to the 6th Armys delaying tactics at Stalingrad.
In fact its said that if it wasn’t for the Russians we would all be speaking German, in fact if it wasn’t for the Germans we would all be speaking Russian. I know which one I prefer.
Go to comment