Slugger O'Toole

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DougtheDug has commented 30 times (0 in the last month).

1. Comment on Checks on the Scottish border Theresa? Come and look at ours?
   on 27 March 2012 at 11:49 am

   Reader 27 March 2012 at 9:29 am

   “…they have already established that an independent Scotland would keep the Monarchy and Sterling, and wouldn’t join the Schengen agreement.”

   “…they have already established that an independent Scotland would keep the Monarchy and Sterling until things have settled down, and wouldn’t join the Schengen agreement immediately on gaining independence.”

   Nobody can promise what a future Scottish government or Scottish public want or will do.

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2. Comment on “The last thing the Northern Isles want is to be ruled by Glasgow trade unionists and Edinburgh lawyers…”
   on 22 March 2012 at 1:04 am

   Pete Baker:

   …it is in many ways a natural progression from the SNP’s own argument for independence.

   It in many ways is not. The SNP’s argument for independence is based on the status of Scotland as a nation and the large number of Scots who want independence and who vote for the SNP in order to obtain it.

   As has been pointed out above, there are no parties fighting in Shetland or Orkney on a platform of independence for these island groups. Neither for an independent Orkney nor for an independent Shetland and certainly not for a joint Northern Isles nation. Neither island group has ever been a nation.

   The Lib-Dems don’t believe in the principle of self-determination because they’ve fought tooth and nail over the last five years to try and stop the question of independence being asked in a referendum in Scotland. They’re entitled to campaign against it but instead they don’t want the question asked because they don’t believe in the principle behind it.

   In the case of Orkney and Shetland they’re using them in an attempt to derail the move towards independence and self determination and to try and ensure that any future independent Scotland loses a large chunk of its natural resources in a bitter wrecking strategy if it gains independence.

   They’ve had no interest in Orkney, Shetland or both becoming independent in the past and their interest in the independence of Shetland or Orkney is not based on any support for the principle of self-determination but to try and impoverish a future Scotland.

   The SNP believe in the principle of self-determination but the Lib-Dems don’t.

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3. Comment on “The last thing the Northern Isles want is to be ruled by Glasgow trade unionists and Edinburgh lawyers…”
   on 21 March 2012 at 10:32 pm

   Funny isn’t it?

   There’s never been a peep from the Lib-Dems about Shetland and Orkney becoming independent from the UK but now with the independence referendum close they’ve turned into the ShNP, Shetland National Party.

   On the one hand they argue that Scotland and England are better off in a Union because they say we’re so closely linked culturally, economically and socially with economies of scale and so on but as soon as an independent Scotland becomes a possibility then they’re all for splitting Scotland up into smaller units because they’ll be better off independent.

   Sleekit is the perfect word for the Lib-Dems.

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4. Comment on “The last thing the Northern Isles want is to be ruled by Glasgow trade unionists and Edinburgh lawyers…”
   on 20 March 2012 at 2:53 pm

   Angus:

   This is what it said in the SNP’s 2011 Manifesto so decentralisation seems to have been recognised as a good thing within the party.

   We will also work to build a culture of independence, a culture of responsibility and confidence across our nation. In our approach to government this will see more power devolved to local communities and greater involvement for people in the decisions that most effect the place they live. This theme of empowerment for our communities runs like a thread through our policy platform.

   Back to Tavish.

   Why is he advocating that Shetland and Orkney get devolved powers or independence only if they vote no in the referendum and why does he think these options are off the table if they vote yes?

   Why does Shetland and Orkney voting no and preferring to be British rather than Scottish mean they want to be independent?

   If Shetland and Orkney vote yes to Scottish independence but Scotland overall votes no isn’t that a more powerful call for an independent Shetland and Orkney than a no vote when the rest of Scotland votes yes?

   Does he advocate that all regions of Scotland who vote no when Scotland overall votes yes in an independence referendum should consider independence?

   I’d love to get some answers out of him but we won’t.

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5. Comment on “The last thing the Northern Isles want is to be ruled by Glasgow trade unionists and Edinburgh lawyers…”
   on 20 March 2012 at 11:34 am

   If you actually read Tavish Scott’s and Liam McArthur’s submission they don’t actually say that Shetland should remain as part of the UK if Scotland gains independence. That appears to be something of a media invention.

   This is what the conclusion to their submission actually says about Shetland and Orkney’s options:

   1. To retain their current constitutional position within the UK and as part of Scotland but negotiate additional responsibility over key public sector areas.

   2. Enhanced powers or independence from Scotland if Scotland were to vote for independence but the Northern isles voted no. The SNP’s policy at successive elections conceded the Northern Isles’ right to their own self-determination.

   3. Enhanced constitutional and tax status within the UK. The Faroes provide one model with links to Denmark. Closer to home the Isle of Man and Channel Islands offer various models of island communities that constitute themselves in different ways from the rest of the UK.

   They advocate Shetland and Orkney independence only if Scotland becomes independent.

   It can be simply summed up by:
   Shetland and Orkney independence from an independent Scotland good.

   Shetland and Orkney independence from the UK bad.

   If you look back over the years and try and find Tavish Scott advocating independence for the Northern Isles before the SNP had the power to call an independence referendum then you’ll find nothing.

   This paper by Tavish Scott and Liam McArthur is an example of the Lib-Dems at their sleekit worst.

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6. Comment on Labour Party in Northern Ireland – conference on Saturday #lpniconf
   on 10 March 2012 at 10:21 pm

   Malcolm Redfellow @ 5:51 pm

   It’s not the party per se that Labour loathe, it’s the idea of Scottish independence. Ever since the SNP election win in May 2011 Labour have been cosying up to their unionist chums in Scotland.

   “There needs to be a three-party campaign, ourselves, the Liberal Democrats and the Tories,”

   Jim Murphy, Labour Shadow Defence Secretary, The Guardian, Friday 13 January 2012
   http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jan/13/jim-murphy-labour-scotland-union

   She (Johan Lamont, Scottish Regional Labour Leader)also confirmed that both former Labour Prime Minister Gordon Brown and ex-Chancellor Alistair Darling would soon be joining the pro-Union campaign, and that she would work with Conservatives and Liberal Democrat figures in a joint pro-Union effort.

   Scotsman, Sunday 4 March 2012
   http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/politics/scottish-independence-johann-lamont-says-no-powers-bidding-war-1-2152365

   Details of secret meetings held between Scottish Labour MPs and UK coalition Ministers, only days after the SNP’s historic May election win, have emerged following a Freedom of Information request. The meetings, one of which took place only three days after May’s election result was confirmed, involved Scottish MPs from the Tory, Lib Dem and Labour parties. Documents released reveal that Secretary of State for Scotland Michael Moore had a secret meeting with his then Labour shadow counterpart Ann McKechin on May 9th to discuss the constitution, the meeting came only three days after the SNP achieved a historic majority win in the Scottish election. Ms McKechin had a further two secret meetings with Mr Moore; however the subject under discussion at those meetings has not been revealed. In all, since June 2010, the documents show Ms McKechin met with Mr Moore eight times, half of the meetings give the subject as the constitution, the other half do not reveal the nature of discussions. The documents also show that Ms McKechin’s colleague, and former Scottish Secretary of State Jim Murphy, met with Mr Moore in July 2010 whilst still in his shadow SoS role, again however the subject under discussion remains unknown. The documents show other meetings involving Tory MP David Mundell, Labour’s Ian Davidson, Tom Greatrex (Lab), Cathie Jamieson (Lab), Lindsay Roy (Lab), Jim McGovern (Lab) and Fiona O’Donnell (Lab)

   Newsnet, Wednesday, 21 December 2011
   http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/3936-foi-request-reveals-labour-secret-meetings-with-coalition-ministers-after-snp-victory

   Labour may have sung the Red Flag but they never meant it.

   The People’s Flag is Palest Pink sums them up to a tee.

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7. Comment on Labour Party in Northern Ireland – conference on Saturday #lpniconf
   on 10 March 2012 at 12:23 pm

   From a Scottish perspective Labour are hard line unionist. That may be a different line to the one they push in Northern Ireland but it will be difficult for them to say two different things in two separate places when their words are being monitored.

   They literally loathe the SNP and its aim of independence for Scotland and already they are making moves to unite with the Tories to fight on a single unionist platform against Scottish independence.

   As an example, Brian Donohoe, the MP for Central Ayrshire has agreed to speak at the forthcoming Troon Tory party conference in Scotland after being invited to make a joint case for the Union yesterday by Prime Minister David Cameron.

   http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence-opposition-unites-to-make-cause-for-union-1-2159192

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8. Comment on DevoMax may be more disruptive to English regions than Independence…
   on 24 February 2012 at 8:23 am

   Drumlins Rock:

   The Wessex Regionalist Party put up one candidate and got a total of 62 votes in the last General Election.

   http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/ge10/partycand.htm

   A 78% vote against in a Labour voting NE region when a NE region is suggested by a Labour government does not make a regionalist movement in the NE.

   London’s Greater London Authority was simply a replacement for the Greater London Council which had been abolished in 1986 and outside London my point still stands. There are no pressure groups or parties beyond fringe groups like the Wessex Regionalist Party who want devolved English regions.

   The grand idea of a “Federal UK” with English regions of a similar population size and powers to Scotland’s devolved parliament will not happen because there are no grass roots organisations calling for it and because central Government doesn’t want it.

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9. Comment on DevoMax may be more disruptive to English regions than Independence…
   on 23 February 2012 at 7:07 pm

   The problem with the idea of English regions is that no-one in England wants them. There are no English regional parties campaigning for a Mercian parliament and there are no Constitutional Conventions campaigning to make Yorkshire a devolved part of the UK.

   English regions won’t be made in to federal parts of the UK because nobody in England can see the point, it will add another layer of government they don’t want and it will cause a lot of upheaval and cost a lot of money for something that won’t win votes for the party that does it.

   The idea that an equivalence can be made between Scotland and various English regions in the UK is simply wrong. Scotland is one of the two original signatories to the Treaty of Union 1707 and is equal in status to England.

   What is driving Scottish devolution and the call for an independence referendum is not a strong desire for a regional identity but is instead a drive for a national identity. Something that does not have any equivalence in the English regions.

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10. Comment on Scottish referendum: ‘Devo more’ could be a unionist runner
    on 21 February 2012 at 8:46 pm

    Aw naw Brian, you’ve brought “Braveheart” into the discussion. What is this unionist obsession with Braveheart?

    But what is the question independence is supposed to answer?

    Fairly easy to answer and it’s odd you haven’t worked it out. It’s one of identity. Scottish nationalism and isn’t driven by a desire for regional power with the UK, it’s driven by those who identify themselves as Scots not British and who want to live in an independent Scottish state.

    The question independence answers is, “Do you want to carry a Scottish passport and control your own affairs?”

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