Final post. (I’m probably not in your time zone and have better things to do this fine Saturday evening)..
“I agree.and what is stopping them from doing that now?”
Almost all of them are currently in government. If it helps consider the setup of ‘the Republic’. There they have voluntary coalition, but otherwise similar and slightly more desirable setup.
I probably don’t need to point out who thinks lack of opposition is a problem if you read the post and comments above my first contribution..
NI certainly isn’t a pure democracy.. few states are.. but it a twisted form thereof.
“my point exactly.and the opposition would agree because they agree on what” An opposition doesn’t have to agree with anyone or anything- that’s the.. beauty. They can talk nonsense if they wish.. what they might wish to do is appeal to the public that they are a viable party for governance. This may or may not correlate to “agreeing” with any other party in government or outside it.
I have no idea what you mean.. No opposition is generally regarded a problem, even by those in government, although more often by those outside. And an ‘opposition within the opposition’ is a perfectly normal state of affairs for any form of democracy- competition of ideas and all that. And I haven’t seen a great deal of evidence that SF and DUP are agreeing on policy issues, but perhaps the increased threat by opposing parties might be more persuasive..
I don’t believe it is obvious or the same as what we have right now. Obviously any mandatory coalition is a similar premise but with a huge opportunity for the parties to alter in policies and votes. It also solves the ‘no opposition’ problem pretty neatly.
I considered posting to correct but hoped it was obvious. I mean the one single largest nationalist party (currently SF) and the single largest unionist party (currently DUP).
I’ll let you work the rest out for yourself- everyone else would be the opposition.
Perhaps it’s time for an update to the mandatory coalition. The government could be made up of:
i) the largest nationalist and ii) the largest unionist parties with iii) everyone else in opposition, iv) so long as nationalist and unionist parties are the largest two parties.
V) In the event that one of the two largest parties is not a constitutionally nationalist/unionist party (ie is the greens, Alliance etc) then Northern Ireland drops the mandatory coalition.
Congratulations. You’ve managed to take a point about strong opposition government and make it an attack on continuing European integration. You have a talent of some sort, that’s for sure!
You appear to be trapped in an outdated notion of statehood, the nation and sovereignty vis a vis the European Union. A European nation is being realized, albeit more readily by our central and eastern European brethren.
The only way to change the EU is by acting within it. Ireland may have a small voice in the EU, but then it is a tiny country/population- it’s influence in the EU is greater than its influence in the world at large if left to compete with the Chinese, the Indians, the Americans as an independent state. Ireland and Britain are perhaps going through a similar process to New York and New England when the USA underwent it’s long transformation to a single power.
I would be only too happy to be permitted to vote for a European president, and for the EU institutions to be tightened up- they are as you happily observe, far from perfect. The people do have or could have more influence than you pretend, if only the local governments in western Europe would educate it’s people a little more. We just had the worlds largest election in the past couple of weeks for the Parliament, and our local governments (elected by us) make many more appointments. If anything, Ireland has too much representation given it’s size.
Ireland and the United Kingdom will still retain sovereignty over many many issues, just like Texas and California do, but the only path to greatness for Europeans lies as a single block.
while your thoughtful and honest analysis is appreciated, Turgan, I am a little disturbed by your encouragement of a more sectarian SDLP.
While there may be truth in what you say about it helping gain votes it doesn’t seem to do much for Northern Ireland as a whole.
I think the better alternate approach is to maintain or take a centrist attitude. It’s been a while since a big election and I predict that with the relative quiet in northern Irish politics the middle parties will pick up a lot of support.
A Belfast epic, and one of my oldest poems, the opener of my first collection, Grub. The gist of the story was found in Moss & Hume’s Shipbuilders to the World: 125 Years of Harland and Wolff, Belfast, 1861-1986, which tells how Eva Peron was due to launch a huge whaling vessel in Belfast, built [...] read our review »
I share many of the concerns of Andy Pollak, whose recent post ‘My Response to the Slugger Begrudgers’ zeroed in on the ‘relentless flow of negativity’ of some Slugger commentators. Pollak’s post was largely concerned with the medium of the blog. Indeed, I think the anonymity of the online world encourages extreme discourse and allows [...] read our review »
To add to the open access treasure trove at the Royal Society, Cambridge University Library is putting online some of its collection of books, maps, manuscripts and journals. We have called the first phase of our work on the Cambridge Digital Library the Foundations Project, which runs from mid-2010 to mid-2013 and has been made possible [...] read our review »
Comment on “this will be the case for as long as the new dispensation lasts”
on 28 June 2009 at 5:59 am
Final post. (I’m probably not in your time zone and have better things to do this fine Saturday evening)..
“I agree.and what is stopping them from doing that now?”
Almost all of them are currently in government. If it helps consider the setup of ‘the Republic’. There they have voluntary coalition, but otherwise similar and slightly more desirable setup.
Go to comment
Comment on “this will be the case for as long as the new dispensation lasts”
on 28 June 2009 at 5:42 am
Guest,
I probably don’t need to point out who thinks lack of opposition is a problem if you read the post and comments above my first contribution..
NI certainly isn’t a pure democracy.. few states are.. but it a twisted form thereof.
“my point exactly.and the opposition would agree because they agree on what” An opposition doesn’t have to agree with anyone or anything- that’s the.. beauty. They can talk nonsense if they wish.. what they might wish to do is appeal to the public that they are a viable party for governance. This may or may not correlate to “agreeing” with any other party in government or outside it.
Go to comment
Comment on “this will be the case for as long as the new dispensation lasts”
on 28 June 2009 at 5:25 am
I have no idea what you mean.. No opposition is generally regarded a problem, even by those in government, although more often by those outside. And an ‘opposition within the opposition’ is a perfectly normal state of affairs for any form of democracy- competition of ideas and all that. And I haven’t seen a great deal of evidence that SF and DUP are agreeing on policy issues, but perhaps the increased threat by opposing parties might be more persuasive..
So no.. I don’t know what you mean.
Go to comment
Comment on “this will be the case for as long as the new dispensation lasts”
on 28 June 2009 at 4:59 am
Guest,
I don’t believe it is obvious or the same as what we have right now. Obviously any mandatory coalition is a similar premise but with a huge opportunity for the parties to alter in policies and votes. It also solves the ‘no opposition’ problem pretty neatly.
Go to comment
Comment on “this will be the case for as long as the new dispensation lasts”
on 28 June 2009 at 4:45 am
I considered posting to correct but hoped it was obvious. I mean the one single largest nationalist party (currently SF) and the single largest unionist party (currently DUP).
I’ll let you work the rest out for yourself- everyone else would be the opposition.
Go to comment
Comment on “this will be the case for as long as the new dispensation lasts”
on 28 June 2009 at 4:36 am
Perhaps it’s time for an update to the mandatory coalition. The government could be made up of:
i) the largest nationalist and ii) the largest unionist parties with iii) everyone else in opposition, iv) so long as nationalist and unionist parties are the largest two parties.
V) In the event that one of the two largest parties is not a constitutionally nationalist/unionist party (ie is the greens, Alliance etc) then Northern Ireland drops the mandatory coalition.
A more realistic, appropriate and fair solution?
Thoughts please..
Go to comment
Comment on Things you’ll never see in Stormont (1)…
on 26 June 2009 at 11:11 am
Dave,
Congratulations. You’ve managed to take a point about strong opposition government and make it an attack on continuing European integration. You have a talent of some sort, that’s for sure!
Go to comment
Comment on The UK and Ireland, nervously united on the Lisbon Treaty 2
on 21 June 2009 at 8:49 pm
Dave,
You appear to be trapped in an outdated notion of statehood, the nation and sovereignty vis a vis the European Union. A European nation is being realized, albeit more readily by our central and eastern European brethren.
The only way to change the EU is by acting within it. Ireland may have a small voice in the EU, but then it is a tiny country/population- it’s influence in the EU is greater than its influence in the world at large if left to compete with the Chinese, the Indians, the Americans as an independent state. Ireland and Britain are perhaps going through a similar process to New York and New England when the USA underwent it’s long transformation to a single power.
I would be only too happy to be permitted to vote for a European president, and for the EU institutions to be tightened up- they are as you happily observe, far from perfect. The people do have or could have more influence than you pretend, if only the local governments in western Europe would educate it’s people a little more. We just had the worlds largest election in the past couple of weeks for the Parliament, and our local governments (elected by us) make many more appointments. If anything, Ireland has too much representation given it’s size.
Ireland and the United Kingdom will still retain sovereignty over many many issues, just like Texas and California do, but the only path to greatness for Europeans lies as a single block.
Go to comment
Comment on SDLP way forward
on 21 December 2008 at 4:05 am
while your thoughtful and honest analysis is appreciated, Turgan, I am a little disturbed by your encouragement of a more sectarian SDLP.
While there may be truth in what you say about it helping gain votes it doesn’t seem to do much for Northern Ireland as a whole.
I think the better alternate approach is to maintain or take a centrist attitude. It’s been a while since a big election and I predict that with the relative quiet in northern Irish politics the middle parties will pick up a lot of support.
Go to comment
Comment on Did we have it too good?
on 19 December 2008 at 2:55 am
Ignore- I understand now.
Go to comment