Saturday, June 30, 2007
‘You’re not real unionists, you’re Ulster nationalists’, UUP tells DUP…
IN its continuing efforts to differentiate itself from the DUP, the UUP has accused Paisley’s party of being “Ulster nationalist” rather than “British unionist” - something we’ve explored on Slugger recently. Ulster Unionist Rodney McCune said: “ I see Ulster Unionists as the only Northern Ireland party continuing to use the language of British Unionism. That is set against the Irish nationalism and republicanism of the SDLP and Sinn Fein and what I see as the Ulster nationalism of the DUP. All three talk about British Labour ministers with a similar contemptuous intonation… They [the DUP], like the other nationalist and republican parties in Northern Ireland, attribute all problems to direct rule or attribute problems to British ministers. Yet as a party the DUP don’t contribute to important national debates such as the future of nuclear power or our national approach to rising crime and prison overcrowding. In my view they are not authentic unionists.” Or perhaps the DUP now recognises the reality that Northern Ireland, while still part of the UK, has its own particular needs and must find its own unique answers to deal with its situation?
Belfast Gonzo @ 08:00 PM
Gonzo yes, there is a certain irony in the “Brits Out” subliminal messages coming out of the DUP.
A nationalist wet-dream too ;)Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 08:22 PMWhat a load of crap.
A two second google will get a quote from the UUP MEP refering to the ‘British Government’
or a ‘British minister’
What a bunch of idiotic amateurs.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 08:26 PMIn all fairness this is Rodney McCune’s opinion and there is nothing to indicate he is speaking for the UUP as a whole. While I don’t doubt there is a wing of the DUP that thinks in Ulster rather than British terms the whole party can be tarred with that brush, particularly with its attraction to former Ulster Unionists. Unless of course Mr McCune would have us believe two out of three Unionist voters are Ulster nationalists too.
There is also a tendancy within the UUP to blame all our woes on direct rule too, for example Reg Empey on the Politics Show last year complained about rule by ‘British Ministers’.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 08:32 PMI meant ‘the whole party cannot’ rather than can. Apologies.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 08:35 PMFrank:
“All three talk about British Labour ministers with a similar contemptuous intonation...”Sometimes one has to refer to “British Ministers” or use some other adjective (I would tend to use ‘Direct Rule’ myself) to distinguish, for example, Westminster ministers from from NI Executive ministers. Sometimes it’s not but it gets said anyway. The point is that the DUP seem to be developing (or is this not a new trend?) the same snarl nationalists often have when referring to British *spit* ministers.
Maybe it’s just a coincidence, but this seems to have become more apparent since the DUP became the largest party and arguably stand to gain the most from devolution.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 09:16 PMThe trouble is that I have seen and heard just this attitude within the UUP over the years and that includes the wee few that are still in it and didn’t cut loose and join the DUP.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 09:23 PMBeano,
Give me recent examples of the UUP commending ‘British ministers’ even at a lesser level than Paisley’s speech about Blair and I might buy this.
The UUP don’t commend anyone. They are just complaining about others complaining like they complain.
It’s pathetic.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 09:26 PMIdentity over Northern Ireland being a destinct region of the UK, distinct due to the large swathes of Irish nationalists, is acceptable and I believe is fair enough.
With this in mind the option would be to advocate a more federal republic approach to governance vis-a-vis UK; but, as for Ulster Nationalism, this itself is a fallacy both politically and geographically - it just doesn’t exist.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 09:39 PMRodney who?
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 10:06 PMThis latest outing by the UUP has echos of the “Decent People Vote UUP” and such like. It was masterminded (if that is not a contradiction in terms) by Stephen King the so called unionist spin doctor / strategy wizard.
What ever happened to him? If there is anyone about whom to have British intelligence conspiracy theories surely it is him. Was he not an English bloke with no connection to NI who dropped out of history at Oxford and went to Queen’s. Was an open homosexual (surely Oxford is more welcoming of homosexuals and although QUB is my almer mata I think for an English person Oxford is higher status than QUB). Then he became policy advisor to Taylor then Trimble, masterminded utterly useless election strategies and then vanished.
Sorry I know I sound like Trowbridge at the moment but it is all a bit wierd. I could well be wrong on all of it, and am happy to be corrected.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 10:29 PMTurgon
I think you are on to something. Doesn’t he also write creepy horror books?
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 10:43 PMBack to thread.
This seems to be part of an increasingly random attempt by the UUP to hit out at the DUP. What is their strategy; if any?
We all remember that they went into a deal before the DUP, made even more consessions than the DUP and are just angry that they are loosing ground. As someone who regards the DUP as having sold out, do they think I am going to start voting UUP forgetting all their selling out?
As to the DUP whinning about Direct Rule ministers, all parties (even Alliance) have done that for years. Whilst some in the unionist community complain about the Direct rule ministers I do not think that makes people less pro the union let alone more interested in a united Ireland which seems to be the unstated subtext to this UUP line.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 10:53 PMThis seems to be part of an increasingly random attempt by the UUP to hit out at the DUP. What is their strategy; if any?
Indeed.
If they want to just remain unionists they will always be at a disadvantage. David Trimble might have moved towards SF politically but the body language was always stand-offish and timid. The Doc has a deeper connection with the ordinary man and woman (I dare say on both sides). It can seem like nationalism but really it is just good politics.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 11:27 PMRonnie who?????? You may indeed ask.
This is the UUP trying to distant itself from the years it misruled this province, and yes, British Ministers i.e. Direct Rule Ministers have been maligned but by all the parties in Northern Ireland including the UUP for their part in the decline of Northern Ireland in all matters of Government. I think it is the silly season again for the UUP as they are no longer in the big picture and only making up the numbers. They are trying to regain territory from the DUP by making statements that should be really sending to themselves, do they really think that the voters of Northern Ireland will ever trust them again if they will not vote DUP next time around. “I say fool me once” you may “fool me twice” you might “fool me three times” never again so you will not get my vote. The British Ministers deserved all the criticism they received and I will be a cheerleader for that, but it does not make me want to be any less British.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 11:43 PMAre any of our politicians really pro Northern Ireland? They all seem to be very pro themselves at the expense of the rest of us.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 11:44 PMSorry should have been Rodney who????????????
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 11:44 PMHere’s a thought…
In the last Assembly election, we saw quite a few previous UUP votes ‘return’ to Alliance. Arguably, those votes were ‘on loan’ previously, to see the UUP and Trimble get into a power sharing government at earlier times of crisis.
But once the ‘crisis’ was over, and the votes had done their work, they returned back to the more moderate party.
Could this happen to DUP votes? Will some go back to the more ‘moderate’ (and these days I use that term most cautiously to the UUP) party? Will this particular UUP argument work?
I’m not convinced that the UUP are on the right road yet, meself. But this is an interesting approach anyway…
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 11:46 PMThe UUP, bless.
Posted by on Jun 30, 2007 @ 11:47 PMRodney McCune; I remember him when he was a spotty teenager. Actually, he wasn’t spotty at all.
His father was a senior RUC officer if I recall rightly, and generally well respected. Rodney, I think, did a Law degree in London, then maybe a patch in NY, though I wouldn’t swear on that part. I also seem to remember him being involved in a tussle with a attempted mugger in London, or something like that, and speaking out very strongly afterwards. Google if you’re interested.
He’s not the worst sort at all; as a representative of Unionism I’d say he’d be erudite and reasonable enough. Though I only vaguely knew him when I was a very spotty teenager…
Posted by on Jul 01, 2007 @ 12:31 AMSomething in what you say Gonzo..
I predict in the mid to long term a general shift away from the current polarised situation. Not rocket science. Whether that shift takes the form of the current parties moving their positions, or the votes shifting inwards to the currently more central parties will very much depend on the footwork of all involved.
This might not be a bad pawn to e4 move for the UUP.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2007 @ 12:36 AMIt appears to me that the UUP have no choice but to find something to differentiate themselves from the DUP that most Unionists believe in.
Is this it? That they are more British than the DUP?
I’m always wrong predicting these things, but stranger things have happened.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2007 @ 01:58 AMKevster
Don’t think yer too far wrong; there’s always been a fault-line between Ulster nationalism and British unionism. But the lack of a militant republicanism has opened what was previously closed.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2007 @ 02:14 AMI suppose the question becomes, how large are the proportions of “Ulster Nationalists” and “British Unionists” in the overall Unionist voting public.
One thing I’ve been watching for is what is going to replace the old boogeyman in Ulster politics. All the gas previously expelled in condemnation of Dublin and Republicans is going to have to be vented somewhere, isn’t it?
Posted by on Jul 01, 2007 @ 02:47 AM‘ how large are the proportions of “Ulster Nationalists” and “British Unionists” in the overall Unionist voting public.’
Belfast Gonzo, does it matter what DUP’ers or UUP’ers call themselves? They both stand steadfast together against the shinners ‘pipe dream’ of a UI before 2016.
‘And the DUP has claimed hopes of a united Ireland are “a pipe dream” after a new study revealed that only 56 per cent of Catholics actually favour Irish unity.
“There is little surprise that confidence in the maintenance of the Union is so high. A BBC Attitude Survey also showed that since the DUP assumed the pole position within unionism the percentage of unionists believing that Northern Ireland would be in the United Kingdom by 2020 rose from below two-thirds to 82 per cent.”
Ulster Unionist MLA Tom Elliott welcomed the findings of the Life and Times survey which he said, “truly illustrate that there is no appetite from the electors north or south of the border for a united Ireland”.
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news?articleid=2992860
Posted by on Jul 01, 2007 @ 06:57 AMTorgon tells us that Stephen King was “an open homosexual”. What he doesn’t tell us is whether or not, in his opinion, this is more or less shameful than being a closet homosexual. But I suppose a textual analysis of his piece really gives us all the clues we need as to Torgon’s feelings on the matter. It would tend to portray him as a closet homophobic.
Would my reading be correct?
Posted by on Jul 01, 2007 @ 07:03 AM
