Sunday, May 27, 2007
Why SF were rejected
Chris Gaskin thinks he knows:
Let’s have a look at our manifesto, or lack there of, for example. I want to make it clear that I don’t blame the people who drafted it, there is a serious problem within the party with policy formation.
That being said the manifesto was the biggest pile of watery, airy fairy, head in the f*****g clouds, not a notion of what is going on, bullshit that I have ever had the misfortune of reading!!
I can’t help but wonder if he has read any of SF’s previous manifestos.
Michael Shilliday @ 12:19 PM
“the biggest pile of watery, airy fairy, head in the f*****g clouds, not a notion of what is going on, bullshit that I have ever had the misfortune of reading!!”
Do you know, I was thinking those very words when I was reading Gaskin’s site.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 12:30 PMwell ellie, thanks for sharing your thoughts
I guess you couldn’t avoid a cheap shot!on topic Mr Gaskin LLB does makes sense.
Couple of other factors to note would be the polarisation of da Nort compared to the South.
Unionists can get way with sloganising “simply British” like advertising pork sausages, and get votes in.
That’s identity politics for you.In the South the electorate is much more sophisticated; and take a longer term view of Irish Unity.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 01:01 PMParcifal
It is just a pity that the Northern Ireland Nationalist / soft Republican population could not be as sophisticated as their counterparts in Southern Ireland, says a lot for their mentality in Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein has them so brainwashed that a United Ireland is within their reach that they beleive it will happen like next week, next year. I admire the people in the South for rejecting Sinn Fein just a pity the leader of their last government had done the same and not poisoned the body politic in Northern Ireland.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 01:13 PMmchinadog,
most people can see that the border is disappearing - take the blinkers off!
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 01:29 PMwell mchinadog its been a pitiful experience and a cold house for nationalists since its inception; uptil recently the failed enity called NI has been like one huge prison for republicans; and hope springs eternal.
as to your last comment, its the poison of mutual hatred and recrimination that needs drawing out.
The righting of the wrongs, and the biggest wrong is partition itself.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 01:37 PMSinn Fein legitimising the British presence in Northern Ireland is the border “disappearing” ?
The increased disparity between the Northern and Souther electorate is the border “disappearing” ?Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 01:38 PM“The righting of the wrongs, and the biggest wrong is partition itself.”
Well you can blame these five members of the IRB for signing the Treaty which led to the Governmewnt of Ireland Act and partition.
Arthur Griffith (Chairman of the Irish delegation)
Michael Collins, TD (Irish Republic’s Minister for Finance).
Robert Barton[1]
Eamonn Duggan
George Gavan Duffy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Anglo-Irish_Treaty_Griffith_annotated2.gifPosted by on May 27, 2007 @ 01:54 PMHis site makes tedious reading. Just like a SF manifesto. And if Sean Crowe is a nice guy, what is he doing in Sinn Fein?
The people do not want Sinn Fein. [text removed - moderator]Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 01:54 PMparci,
Unionists can get way with sloganising “simply British”
If you mean the UUP’s 2005 campaign, how exactly did they get ‘away with it’? IIRC, they lost 4 out of five of their Westminster seats.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:06 PMMaggot,
you are missing the big picture, thinking that Sinn FĂ©in as they are currently constituted are going to be somehow relevant in ending of partition on this island.Their current guise is a purely northern, dare I say British creation, thus they honestly believed that doing crazy stuff like having sitting TDs pressing for the early release of Garda killers was acceptable to the Irish electorate.
Sinn FĂ©in are bit players in the Irish Republican project. For a start, they don’t run a sovereign, prosperous Republic that looks afer 70% of the island’s population.
But a word of warning, this election was a reality check for Sinn FĂ©in but don’t use it for bricks to construct your unionist castle in the air.
It’s the Irish Republic and its “outreach” programme that is the biggest threat to partition, not Sinn FĂ©in.
Gerry Kelly,
I think Mary Lou would have been a Wesley girl and I don’t think they would have let Gerry in.Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:08 PMSF has a lot of work to do. They took the electorate for granted and paid a heavy price. A few starting points.
1. Leave the Marxism behind. Fidel may be an icon but he has absolutely nothing to do with Ireland.
2. Leadership needs to become all ireland and not Northern-centric.
3. Time to empathise with the people and not patronise or lecture.
But let’s not panic. Its one bad election - in the big scheme of things it’s a setback, nothing more. This was a referendum on Bertie and Bertie won.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:19 PMSo the manofesto was the problem. SF didn’t honestly think that the ROI electrate could fall for that lot of crap just as their airhead supporters in the North {sorry conor} do.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:22 PM“on topic Mr Gaskin LLB does makes sense.”
Let’s hope he speaks more eloquently in court, then, because this is seriously dreary fare.
“Yes, we want a 32 County Socialist Republic!
-Yes, we want a secular state where all forms of discrimination be it race, sex, creed, sexual orientation etc are consigned to the past
-Yes, the rich should pay their fair share
-Yes, the private sector has no role in public services
-Yes, the most vulnerable in society should be protected
-Yes, housing are for living in not for speculators to make money off”
The people of the south have shown they don’t share that “vision”. They’re making a wedge and good luck to them. They do not want a 32 county socialist republic and no amount of sixth-form prose from Mr.Gaskin or his cohorts in SF will alter that fact. They don’t give a monkey’s stuff about the private sector’s involvement in public services -a very fine M1 from Dundalk to Dublin as a PPP venture that makes travel easier than farting through Castlebellingham suits them nicely. They don’t care about speculators trousering a wedge on housing investments because, hey, one day that might be them. That’s their aspiration.
Other than that, it’s like a freakin’ Rose of Tralee entrant’s speech “I want to help people achieve world peace and cuddle the fluffy-wuffy cute little bunnies”.
Having a go???
Don’t start me: this ‘analysis’ that you think ‘makes a lot of sense’ simply ignores the fact that SF are practically unelectable with that set of priorities and in changing them, they cease to be Sinn Fein.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:29 PMgood tackle Mick, it doesn’t work anymore for unionists to hang up the old pork sausages from the rafters, with a union jack back-drop, and expect to win.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:30 PM“uptil recently the failed enity called NI has been like one huge prison for republicans; and hope springs eternal.”
You’re wasted here, parcifal. You’d be better off being Chris Gaskin’s speechwriter.
Maybe you could acknowledge that part of the “failure” of NI was down to the fact that money that SF desperately want to see spent on public services was being spent on limiting their murder campaign of three decades.
Sinn Fein are the problem, not the solution.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:33 PMGerry will never be Taoiseach.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:38 PMwell ellie you’ve made the effort to say something intelligent, and that’s what Sluggers is all about.
Certainly SF are idealistic, but what’s wrong with that? Your post tells me that your thinking is all materialistic; that’s obscene to many, but clearly not to you; and your sneering speaks volumes.
Its doubtful whether you or I would agree on anything.So have a nice day, bye the way could you spare a few pence for a cup of tea?
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:41 PM“Why SF were rejected”.
Forget the manifesto, it couldn’t be simpler - Sinn Fein politics are irrelevant to the Republic of Ireland in the same way that DUP politics are irrelevant to the rest of the UK.
The reason why the DUP don’t put up candidates on the “mainland” is because they won’t get elected on the “mainland” because what they stand for is completely irrelevant to the electorate on the “mainland”. We all know this already and as of yesterday Sinn Fein are learning it in relation to their “mainland”.
Sinn Fein can do a pile of work on their manifesto but it’s pointless. The only interesting outcomes to speculate on for Sinn Fein is where they will be in 20 years time in Northern Ireland as sectarian politics here become irrelevant (which I think they will).
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:48 PM“Your post tells me that your thinking is all materialistic”
I suspect I’m more of a socialist than Gerry. But the comment on materialism wasn’t about me, it was about the southern electorate. They want better, to coin a phrase, than their parents had. And with the exception of maybe Portugal they were western Europe’s poor boys for decades (or should that be DeVades?)
So there’s a new Audi. A new housing development just off the M1. Highly paid jobs. Why do they want to opt for someone planning higher business rates which might jeopardise their jobs even if they’re some distance down the food chain?
“you’ve made the effort to say something intelligent, and that’s what Sluggers is all about.”
I’ve not seen much evidence of that so far.
It’s like Debate Central Revisited without the bad language (or the laughs), and don’t try and kid yourself that this represents the zenith of political ‘debate’ on Irish matters because sectarian or head-in-the-sand polarised views are couched in a vaugely ‘intelligent’ way.
The Sinners took a caning from a sitting laissez-faire government and equally laissez-faire electorate. They’re unelectable, and no amount of debate can cover that fact.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:53 PMtheir murder campaign of three decades.
Sinn Fein are the problem, not the solution
ellie, thanks for sharing the view behind the lace curtains; on the ground in the trenches war costs money, HMG paid for their war machine through taxation, the IRA went fund-raising.
That’s how it was whether you like it or not.
I accept that reality, clearly its still difficult for you. I can only wish you well and pray that you’ll understand making a virtue of bitterness is the wrong path.That is the problem, not the solution
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:54 PMEllie, I’m sensing that your not a sf supporter. By your view of life that means you are someone who believes that the market will sort it all out.
I am right to say that you also believe that the state has no role in day to day life, taxes should be lowered so people can choose what they do with their hard earned cash.
Also I see SF are the problem to ... well pretty much everything. Very indepth analysis.
Are you Michael McDowell?
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:54 PMOf course they want better, they haven’t had money for 800 yrs I understand that.
Houses are for living in, not speculators.
Where I live the labour council enforces a 40% social housing development with all new properties.
That’s a good thing.Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 02:59 PM“I see SF are the problem to ... well pretty much everything”
How so?
The issue under discussion was their feeble performance and manifesto.
Are you one of those contributors who, when faced with certain issues, turns your attention to other contributors in order to deflect the issue away from those that make you uncomfortable?
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 03:07 PM“Where I live the labour council enforces a 40% social housing development with all new properties.
That’s a good thing”And where roughly is that parcifal? Nowhere in Ireland by the sounds of it.
Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 03:30 PMwillis, my heart is in Ireland, my feet someplace else. Have a few things to sort out before I descend upon you, in all my glory.
p.s Which way to social security when I arrive ;)Posted by on May 27, 2007 @ 03:41 PM
