Friday, May 16, 2008
West Belfast stuck in economic ‘siege mentality’?
Newton Emerson pours scorn on Forbairt Feirste’s investment conference, aimed at consolidating support for the establishment of a Ceathrú Gaeltacht (Gaeltacht Quarter) in west Belfast. (H/T Concubhar) In essence he argues that the economic aspect of case is flawed, not least since “residents of the lower Falls live within a mile of 30 per cent of all the jobs in Northern Ireland.” He goes on to accuse the area of excessively cleaving to a kind of internal separatism:
One point repeatedly raised at the west Belfast conference was that the Titanic quarter will shift the city’s economic centre of gravity to the east. But thousands of people from west Belfast once worked on Queen’s Island. They travelled there by tram and they could do so again if Sinn Fein regional development minister Conor Murphy would spend £1.86 million a year on a west Belfast light rail line.
West Belfast is a place and a community apart, not least due to the massive and traumatic population shifts of the late sixties and early seventies. Early attempts by some residents to move their families out into mixed areas, even well beyond the confines of the city ended in some of them being intimidated back into the safer reaches of their original communities. This is often underestimated by outside commentators. If there is a siege mentality, some of it arises from what many in that community would see as good reason.
But Emerson does have a point when he suggested that some of the Troubles-centric development decisions have helped deepen a sense of isolation from the rest of the city. Not least the deep (and widening) trench that is the Westlink:
One obvious and highly profitable solution would be to drop the road into a trench and roof it over, creating hundreds of acres of prime city centre real estate. It might seem perverse to suggest this while the current Westlink widening is still under way but that project ripped up years of recently completed improvements.
Even mundane cities such as Leeds manage to bury their urban motorways, despite having no local ministers with devolved powers. However, burying the Westlink has never been seriously considered throughout all the many opportunities to do so, including the Invest NI conference.
It appears that certain people, both inside and outside west Belfast, are only too happy with its tarmac moat.
He argues that Sinn Fein’s leadership on this issue is at best misguided:
Last week’s ‘cultural conference’ may have helped some republicans to cope with the stench of global capitalism emanating from the Invest NI conference. But few of the party’s constituents will be helped by pretending that a neighbourhood Irish-language quango will be a force for economic growth even if they find this tribal totem more pleasing to contemplate than the difficult decisions that are actually required.
“Whenever I hear the word ‘culture’ I reach for my gun,” Hermann Goering famously never said. Sinn Fein, conversely, has put down its gun and reached for the word ‘culture’. There is little reason to believe that this strategy will be any more successful than the last one.
Mick Fealty @ 12:30 PM
“How will the creation of Irish language speaking area reduce the overabundance of unemployed spides running about the streets, broken buckfast bottles on the footpaths, paint splattered on the walls?”
It is like trying to fix Southie with free 9mm hand-outs, Gerry, really doesn’t get it, he is having a conversation with himself.
That’s ok when you’re watering the plants, it is a bad idea for an elected MP.
It is not possible to go anywhere in the party if one is not a confirmed group-thinker.
I think Gerry Adams is a silly sausage.
That I do.
G.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 05:02 PMGreg,
Could you put up or shut up once and for all on the secret securocrat infiltration of Catriona’s Department?
Just post the full thing and then stop bollixing up every other thread from here on in. Just once and for all.
It’s becoming tedious.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 05:08 PMI must have missed the part where Newton’s opinions became important!
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 05:09 PM“his attack on the project is just another spiteful and mean spirited attack on the Irish language by a unionist.”
Irish culture West Belfast style style is an extraordinary background of sexual violence, homicide, child alcoholism, drug-taking glass under-foot, contempt for bye-laws, arson, and the general smell of burning.
With an MP who thinks he is our Prince.
If raping tourists and wee schoolgirls and allowing sex offendrs to teach in schools is the benchmark for a program, we surely need it, and preferably in plain English.
I’m not a happy camper.
G.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 05:09 PMThe Belfast Gaeltacht is no ‘false community’. It is a community in which Irish spoken and which was created honestly by the hardwork of a few people --
Not so much a community , rather than a hobby
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 05:29 PM“Could you put up or shut up once and for all on the secret securocrat infiltration of Catriona’s Department? “
I know the secret because I’m an insider in relation to US stuff at state & justice. I do PR & lobbying for G/TIP.
How many pedophiles are in jail in the USA, Canada, Australia because of CEOP? Why am I asking you that question,
what does it mean? What does the FBI do in relation to the same area? What’s the diff between CEOP/SOCA and the FBI.
Then ask why that is.
Has Jim Gamble *ever* arrested a pedophile in his entire career? Have CEOP *really* arrested any?
Do CEOP keep records of the pedophiles the FBI identify via IP addresses etc? Or could it be, they are not allowed to?
Ask yourself that. Once you have that answer, ask yourself the next one, which is ‘Why?
I am waiting for Obama’s supporters to take the next swing. Their state (Illinois) was hammered by Brit teachers.
Why do you think Jim Gamble was put in charge of counter-pedophile operations?
Don’t you think Ruane might have wanted to ask herself that? She is in charge of schools for crying out loud.
So, Ruane is definitely part (knowingly or not) of a project which is a cover-up, by the British Security Services.
Arrogance can generate a stupidity of awesome proportions, it is bizarre,
she is certainly in the right party to see the hand of SB everywhere.
So why not her own dept?
Ms Ruane doesn’t do joined-up thinking. Her fall from grace will be total.
She deserves it.
G.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 05:36 PMWell folks....there you have it.
Ok, Greg, now the bile is drained, can we draw an online line under it?
Cheers
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 05:41 PMI bet in the next week it is revealed a leading pedophile was working at DENI.
:o))
I’ll take bets
G.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 05:43 PMSpectacular arguments here, but if I might add to them…
The crux of Newton’s piece is actually viable. Cultural appreciation is simply not realistic if you can’t feed your children properly. And people don’t become cultured by becoming introverted: while the Irish language deserves promotion, West Belfast deserves to be opened up to the world and vice versa - to grow beyond the “siege mentality.” And it is here that the SF criticism ought to be focussed - the failure to create wealth or an open culture, despite ample time to have done so.
Equally, the Investment Conference stunt does not point a way towards the future needed, either in West Belfast or beyond. We need business that does not aim to export its profit back to the US. Business with a long-term engagement to NI, ideally home-spun.
Crucially, we need investment in education, and incentives to allow small, local businesses to compete with global corporations. At this ‘year zero’ stage, we face the same choice many others have faced before. Either the quick buck, which means sacrificing culture, stability, equality and national integrity (see FF refusal to search flights possibly used for extraordinary rendition/torture, despite EU pressure). Or the slower approach favoured by Scandinavian countries in particular, which eventually result in a more stable and inclusive economy that is less susceptible to global crises, a more talented and creative population and a greater sense of identity and pride. So eventually all of West Belfast, when it can feed and clothe itself properly, can begin to enjoy culture again.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 05:44 PMMick
is cosúil go bhfuil tusa ag déanamh monatóireacht ar an díospóireacht seo agus tá sí beo bríomhar ach níl shílim gur cheart ligint do dhuine ar bith drochíde pháiste a chur i leith Gerry Adams gan fianaise agus é a fhágáil ar an bhlag.Tharlaigh an rud céanna aréir nuair a chuir duine éigin Caitriona Ruane i gcomparáid le luchóg mhór.An bhfuil sin ceart dar leat? An bhfuil teora ar bith ar shaoirse chainte?Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 05:51 PM“the failure to create wealth or an open culture, despite ample time to have done so. “
Precisely, open culture, nice way of describing the requirement. We need to raise civic standards.
We have kids who have no grasp of what a bye-law is. On the littering front, it is not something understandable to many of them. Alcohol & drugs is a way of life for so very many.
We have hundreds of old people who are frightened to go out. That is not a saying, they wait for relatives to visit and escort them.
Some folks don’t have bin colections. What kind of a city is that?
SF are as duplicitous as the worst of the Brit ministers, they really are.
There are a stadium of ex-prisoners wondering what it was all for.
Top shinners are doing their own leaflets, because nobody wants to do them for them.
SF will soon be like the labor party, no grass-roots.
G.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 05:56 PMSome where theres a Napoleon coat and a tin foil hat in search of its owner
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 06:01 PMDid anyone, other than Newton Emerson, actually claim that an Irish-speaking community in West Belfast would serve as a “the solution to all economic ills”?
If they didn’t, then Newton Emerson’s article is as an attempt to undermine Irish language culture in West Belfast by falsely presenting it as an alternative to economic prosperity, and then asking the reader to choose which of the two options he prefers. Well, most readers will sensibly choose economic prosperity if it is an either/or option, thereby unwittingly supporting the censorship of the particular initiative that Mr Emerson finds objectionable. However, contrary to Newton Emerson bogus presentation, it isn’t an either/or option. Culture is not an alternative to economic activity, but culture can serve as an economic driver (or so Her Majesty’s supporters will tell you whenever the taxpayer questions the cost of her upkeep).
It’s pretty obvious that Newton Emerson detest Sinn Fein (and g-d bless him for that), taking every opportunity to link them to perceived negatives such as ulterior unity agendas, as in his great kiss-off closing line: “Sinn Fein, conversely, has put down its gun and reached for the word ‘culture’. There is little reason to believe that this strategy will be any more successful than the last one.”
By linking Sinn Fein to Irish culture (as Sinn Fein have linked themselves to it), he uses the association to undermine appreciation of the thing that is linked. Well, nothing new there: many have observed that Sinn Fein killed off support for Irish unity and will have the same effect on any other aspect of Irish culture that they use as a means of cynical self-promotion.
Where Newton Emerson’s latent bigotry shines through is when he moves beyond his hatred of Sinn Fein to express his hatred of the culture of the people that Sinn Fein are associated with, as in dismissing Irish culture/language as a “this tribal totem” - a derogative comment that could apply to any culture (such as the culture that Newton Emerson identifies with) but is only applied dismissively by Newton Emerson to Irish culture. Tut tut @ that emergent sectarianism from the Newt.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 06:02 PMAs I alluded to previously, if Newton vented his spleen here in Canada, in similar terms against the indigenous people or the French Canadians or any of our rich diversity of immigrant cultures, he would be seen for the bigot he is. Only in Northern Ireland is such crap taken as intelligent discourse (by those of similar disposition to the Newt). Pity him and them. They are about 300 years behind the times with their heads up their asses.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 06:49 PMmmmm........
Why do people let Newton own the key to their backs? He’s paid to wind people up and god don’t you let him.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 06:59 PMRead this earlier. A couple of things sprang to mind.
The point on the residents of the Lower Falls have access to 30% of the jobs and they could travel to them misses the point. That is true, and it would certainly help the people of West Belfast, but it does nothing for the area itself.
Second, I’m not sure of the “siege mentality”. It certainly exists to an extent, but it is only part of it. There are links, a sense of community and place embedded within that. An attack on the “siege mentality” also attacks that, and the “Gaeltacht Quarter” seems an attempt to anchor those things to something positive rather than the Troubles. In a world where much effort is expended in discussing how to bring community back to inner cities, Newt’s response seems hopelessly simplistic.
I don’t think anyone believes this is a full solution on its own, but I do reckon it could be part of one. If it got going it could be a boon to the whole city, because there would be nothing else quite like it in Ireland. So a lot depends on delivery, and I’d be interested in more critique there, rather than a general whinge as that might actually impact outcome.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 06:59 PMI always enjoy Mr Emerson’s pieces in the Irish Times and this one, which a colleague pointed me to, is the best I’ve read yet. It sums up perfectly the dreary, tribal, hand-out demanding attitude of the northern shinner mindset. No bloody wonder we want nothing to do with you down here and you fell to pieces at the last election. I pity the Brits for having to bankroll this nonsense, but I suppose it’s cheaper than letting you wreck your self imposed cages then picking up the pieces.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 07:26 PMDublin Democrat rather lets the side down - I wonder whether he’s affiliated to that fast vanishing bunch, the Progressive Democrats....
The fact is again that SF have done nothing for the Ceathrú Gaeltachta and that constant re-iterations of this charge and other more fantastical (I’m talking about Pope Gregory’s hallucinations) are tiresome.
The Emerson article is too ill informed to be taken to heart - but it is strange that the troubled Irish News would publish it without attempting to do a more indepth, balanced feature on the issue.
I have a suspicion that the reason for this attention is that the Ceathrú Gaeltachta is going to move up the agenda over the next short while due to the imminent axing of the Long Kesh project.
This article and the other vitriolic attacks by unionist commenters on the Ceathrú Gaeltachta project should be pointed out to potential American investors in NI as a litmus test of whether or not NI has begun to become a warmer place for Irish culture and the Irish identity. If the UK government doesn’t support the Ceathrú Gaeltachta project willingly, all future support by Irish Americans of projects in the north should be made conditional on that support being forthcoming and quickly.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 07:49 PMI presume some supporters of the Gaeltacht Quarter want more investment to generate business activity and that finance comes from the British Exchequer.
I want to know how much has already been poured into West Belfast as opposed to East Belfast over the past ten years.
I think the residents have already got the lions share and must wait until the rest of the country catches up with them and that will take years particularly in the case of North Antrim.Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 07:55 PMYes, I’m sure it’s top of the agenda for most major US corporations and indeed the US Government...lol
The US perspective on NI is very simple - its closest ally wants its help in continuing to mollify the warring tribes of the north of Ireland, particularly the one inclined in the past to blow up children in its streets, stock exchanges etc.
To that end, some potential investors are rounded up for a jolly. Some may indeed invest in the north if the conditions are beneficial for them and their shareholders.
The idea that the UK not supporting this particular quaint little ‘cultural’ hobby horse serving a tiny community in a tiny city will make one IOTA of difference to decision makers of any ilk across the Atlantic is laughable. That you would articulate that demand merely demonstrates how hopelessly out of touch and insulated from the real world those of your mindset are.
And no, I vote FG. Although I cheered from my armchair when McDowell did for that buffoon Adams in the election ‘debate’. I gather that gentleman retired from public life content with a job well done and this state should be deeply indebted to him.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 08:02 PM
I presume some supporters of the Gaeltacht Quarter want more investment to generate business activity and that finance comes from the British Exchequer.
I want to know how much has already been poured into West Belfast as opposed to East Belfast over the past ten years.
I think the residents have already got the lions share and must wait until the rest of the country catches up with them and that will take years particularly in the case of North Antrim.Posted by ulsterfan on May 16, 2008 @ 08:55 PM
You only need two words to answer this comment: Titanic Quarter (incidentally the Ceathrú Gaeltachta project celebrates a living project signifying success and progress rather than what could be a rusted and decaying shipwreck, symbolising failure, at the bottom of the ocean-I’m not objecting to that funding but I do object to the idea that East Belfast,home of the Odyssey Project and countless other cash cows would be losing out if investment was made in the CG.).
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 08:02 PMCoL
Any comment about North Antrim?
I would still like to see the figures.
The Titanic and its history catches the imagination of the world at large.
Do you have any thoughts about special financial package for those in East Antrim in the Larne area and who wish to promote Ulster Scots?Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 08:15 PMIf the UK government doesn’t support the Ceathrú Gaeltachta project willingly, all future support by Irish Americans of projects in the north should be made conditional on that support being forthcoming and quickly.
Yeah - that sounds like a good investment strategy for the North,unless you support the whimsical non existent Gaeltacht Quarter, well then we don’t want your damn money! Lets see if the Emerald Fund take that to heart.
Let’s run it by Nigel Dodds, bet he will support that policy. Even to suggest it Concubhar shows the depth of thought behind your contribution.
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 08:23 PMI think the post @ 21;17pm is just about the level of debate that the opponents of the Ceathrú Gaeltachta are comfortable with, nothing more than personal abuse.
As for Nigel Dodds - well he’s part of a team and my sole purpose in pursuing this is to remind SF who their voters are and what fights they should be fighting at the cabinet table.
As for Ulster Fan - I read in the Irish Times last week that Ulster Scots was getting more money from Stormont than Irish. As for East Antrim, well that’s a problem for the local MP, whoever he may be.
And Brendan should pay heed - there’s little enough reason for US Investors to invest in NI but they shouldn’t pump their money into projects which support a regime which discriminates against expressions of Irish identity. That’s all.
However the 21:17 post made my night - it shows that the opponents of the Ceathrú Gaeltachta are a bunch of sad neanderthal cretins.....
Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 08:51 PMConcubhar,
Heed them not...the contributions so far are; Ulsterfan being a ‘weedaftyweeun’.
Gregory is standin on the grassy knoll confusing the Book Sepositary (sic) building with the skankill,and ,
Dublin Democrat has gained the world view we all gained 20 years ago but he is now in love with his new found tuppence happeny articulation...fur coat no knicker merchants with a huge capacity for price retention but none for value.
These are not ad hom attacks...they are observations of thread detail substance avoidance merchants.
Good luck with your endeavours!Posted by on May 16, 2008 @ 09:19 PM
