Tuesday, December 11, 2007
West Belfast: eastern Europe without perestroika or glasnost…
Pól Ó Muirí is a blogger now as well as a columnist in the Belfast Telegraph and ‘eagarthóir’ of Irish language in the Irish Times. He even wrote for the Andersonstown News when at University. Over at El Matador he gives his view of what has happened to his old community in West Belfast. It’s a story of decline that could be matched with the loss of traditional authority right across the English speaking world. Indeed, he might be speaking about Walton or Scotland Road in Liverpool in the eighties. Except that he blames a new political hegemony he believes has politically sponsored the decline.
Mick Fealty @ 03:25 PM
I read El Blogador’s personal genesis of West Belfast. It was indeed very intersting to see such nostalgia from someone who came of age in such dangerous and tumultuous times. His later assessment of the neighborhood today seems a bit dramatic though. Does he think it was better when he was a child, honestly? Does he wish his children could grow up on the Falls Road of today or 30 years ago?
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:42 PMGood man PO’M. This is something that has puzzled me for a long time.
I have often wondered how SF get away with constantly pointing to the fact that West Belfast is at the top of all sorts of shit hole indices, without the people ever pausing to wonder at the correlation between this fact and the fact that Sinn Fein have dictated the pace of politics there for so long.
SF’s great triumph has been in perpetuating the ‘nationalists as oppressed minority’ myth in a constituency that votes c. 90% nationalist and returns 5 SF MLAs!
Going forward, it might not be so rosy: People can’t prefer bilingual interpretive centres to a real economy forever.
Also, it is inconceivable that Fianna Fail will be as ineffective in West Belfast as the SDLP has unfortunately been since the departure of Joe Hendron.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:42 PMEven Squinter in the ATN has asked when SF will take responsibility for what happens in West Belfast.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:53 PMWhilst no-one could question O’Muirà ‘Westie’ credentials (especially after he spends 90% of the article listing them), there’s more than a whiff of goose and gander here - “the provos blamed everyone else, but sure it was all their fault”. It’ll play well with the BT types, but doesn’t stand up to any real scrutiny amongst people who a) remember the alternative ‘Authority’ on offer: the B specials, UDR, Internment, the Falls Curfew, the RUC, etc and b) anyone who lives in North Belfast (for example) where the same Republican-hegemony did not exist.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:58 PMI find it difficult to pin on SF a pattern that has been repeated across the Western world. To repeat my post from that thread:
“The Provos blame the Brits, the police, everyone else - but they should blame themselves. They have destroyed all authority in the area – that of parent, teacher and cleric – to achieve their political goals. They now control everything and have ruined everything.”
Yeah, because these types of issues in working class areas are restricted to Republicans areas in the North. It’s nonsense. Decline in respect for authority is an affliction of the modern age, whether it’s in Belfast or London or Dublin.
If anything, the Provos were the Authority in the area, I heard complaints of people taking drink off underage drinkers and telling them to “collect it at the SF office” if they had a problem. Without the fear of the IRA, even they become susceptible to it.
None of the MPs have had any real influence on these types of things, and all have basically had limited power. In terms of getting money for the area, SF representation has probably done as well as any, and in the West Belfast Festival they’ve built something to be really proud of.
It’s a difficult problem, and one that isn’t easy to solve. I favour some application of broken window theory and devolving some money and power to the local community to be response for. But blaming the Provos is a really inadequate response.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 06:05 PMIt’s normal politics :Sinn Fein know west belfast is theirs no matter what, so don’t waste any resources on it. Same thing happens in England… remember when they wanted to close hospitals and got out maps to make sure they weren’t in marginal constituencies, so went for ones in safe tory or safe labour areas
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 06:06 PMWhile Pol’s west belfast credentials are not in question, it seems that a lot of us look back with a rather different view of the reality. I was a contemporary of Pol at school, and lived reasonably close to him. I, like him, grew up - “up the road”, in a reasonably comfortable part of andytown. If i was being honest, we lived in an aspiring middle class district, where your parents didn’t talk of the “conflict”, and that “those” things only went on “down the road”, where they had come from ,and wanted away from, but still needed the perceived safety of west belfast in those difficult times. My parents also expressed their nationalism, in a quiet way, and promoting the irish language was one of those ways. Support for the SDLP among aspiring middle class familes was also common, as it was in my family home. However, as we walked to scouts(different scouts for me), to the chippy and to the leisure centre for a swim and all was rosy, as are so many memories, we tend to forget the assaults by the british army on teenagers walking up the road, the stopping and searching kids on their way to school, and in my case, a brutal attack by the army and watched over by police, all because i had the same surname as a well known republican. I was 14. The walks to the chip shop just wern’t the same after that. The issues of increasing anti-social behaviour are not limited to west belfast, and are certainly not the fault of Sinn Fein. They are universal problems that exist in many parts of the world. My children today are better off than i was. Yes, they need to take care of themselves in a whole new range of ways, but it beats not having to think that the next car driving by, is going to slow down and a gunman is going to shoot you because of which church/school you go to. Does Pol not remember that telling someone his name, school he went to, outside of west belfast, was to be avoided at all times? (as my parents pleaded with me on many occasions). To think that all was well under joe hendron and gery fitt, is just plain “shite”.
Ni mar a siltear a bhitear
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 06:32 PM“I have often wondered how SF get away with constantly pointing to the fact that West Belfast is at the top of all sorts of shit hole indices, without the people ever pausing to wonder at the correlation between this fact and the fact that Sinn Fein have dictated the pace of politics there for so long.”
Precisely the same thing would be true of any area that is dominated by loyalist paramilitaries. Private sector activity becomes impossible, due to extortion, and anyone who can afford to move out does so.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 07:00 PMThe part of Pól’s recollection that I recall with greatest vividness was the Cumann Chluain Ard. It was either full of life, or dead as door nail. It was something of a haven of peace and civility even as there was some pretty desperate things happening outside. Even British soldiers who came in from time to time were treated with a certain cool civility whatever their business.
Over a four year period I took several Unionist friends there without the least difficulty. The one time I saw someone break out in a cold sweat was a sticky friend from colleagues who’d had several friends killed in the seventies feud.
I agree with those who say that West Belfast is suffering the same kind of disconnect that is found in working class communities across the west. The killing of young Rhys Jones in Croxteth or the drive by killing of Charlene Ellis and Latisha Shakespear in Birmingham come to mind.
But I think what is underneath the surface is thirty years of bad blood arising from the operation of an illegal army within the community (and all the stresses and strains that that entails) as much as anything to do with the political or even cultural end of ‘the project’. Though, perhaps regrettably, the defining line between them is not always as obvious to folk outside the movement as it seems to be to those on the inside.
In that particular context I might be cheeky and suggest NÃ bhÃtear mar a siltear.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 07:18 PMI have lived in West Belfast though I didn’t grow up there as Pól Ó Muirà did. His picture of Eastern Europe without the glasnost or perestroika doesn’t describe West Belfast at all. This idea about a party line is ridiculous - sure there’s a dominant political party in West Belfast and it’s Sinn Féin but he’s only kidding himself if he thinks people don’t question SF and often about what they’ve done for the place lately. However bad SF is, they won’t vote for the SDLP because the SDLP is represented these days by people who have to import their party workers from the south. (That may sound rich coming from me but that’s what the SDLP in West Belfast is reduced to post the Hendron era.)
As for his choice of material not to read, that’s his loss.
If the truth were told, I think that the only one following a party line is poor Pól himself, with his McCarthy-ite ‘greens under every bed’ attitude.
PS - Didn’t he used to write for Lá too? Or is he unable to get over the particular mental block he has about mentioning the Irish language daily newspaper by name. If he were to read that, he might discover that there’s a far heatlhier debate going about SF’s non performance on Irish language issues than he’s prepared to recognise.
It was interesting to read the Irish Times editorial on Monday and its gushing tones in praise of Ian Paisley to the exclusion of Martin McGuinness. Paisley is the ‘central figure’ according to the Times. Really? That’s wishful thinking getting translated into the paper of record. That’s what I call the party line and Pól O Muirà follows it like a tame three legged poodle.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 08:08 PMWhilst no-one could question O’Muirà ‘Westie’ credentials (especially after he spends 90% of the article listing them.
Dec
That was the best line of the week for me.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 08:15 PMThe part of Pól’s recollection that I recall with greatest vividness was the Cumann Chluain Ard. It was either full of life, or dead as door nail.
But always ready to serve booze to 16 year old schoolboys, with a bit of Irish about them. hence my patronage circa the mid to late 80s.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 08:20 PMLower and Upper Sixth by any chance Dec?
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 09:21 PMMick,
CCA’s strict non-politity probably stems as much from seeking to avoid feuds and to remain a neutral haven than striving to remain seen as a place for both sides of the community, though that is a clear and welcome by-product which continues to this day.
Strict rules curtailing clerical involment also have helped the Irish language movement which originated out of it no end.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 09:36 PMgg,
The bringing of people from other communities was the easy bit. And the big guy was okay inside there. He was afraid for his life of coming back to an area he’d grown up in and left ten years earlier.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 09:43 PMMick,
Doesn’t that story say something about the nature of the grip on the area? Outsiders are tolerated, as it is regarded as legitimate for them to have different views. Those from within who oppose the dominant force are liable to be treated much more hostiley, and often violently. That pattern is thankfully reducing, but was true for much of the last two or three decades.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 09:46 PMOn a day when some newspapers have articles about the INCREASING rate of human evolution this thread is, umh, interesting. In other news…
West Belfast is not the center of six counties
Northern Ireland is not the center of this Island
This Island is not the center of Europe
Europe, in spite of its many WARS, is not the center of planet earth.
Planet earth is not the center of the solar system.
The solar system is not the center of the galaxy.
The galaxy is not the center of the universe.Issues of civic responsbility, comportment and behaviour are in no way unique to West Belfast. ( And yes,at this point I have prayed for the soul and family of Mr Holland… but that is a personal action)
What does seem central here is an Incestuous, Self-Apsorbtion. Once the political problem here is solved, this sliver of the planet will slink off to mere insignificance.
And here, regardless of political belief, opinion or persuasion… that pisses off a lot of people… and as god’s chosen many, it probably should.
A Vicious Crowd.. perhaps?
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 10:06 PMMick
Yes. Gloine uisce bheatha agus lÃomanáid, le do thoil.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 11:22 PMA truly pathetic piece of writing- essentially boiling down to stating that Sinn Fein is to blame for all of modern society’s ills as visited upon the people of west Belfast.
No wonder he’s aligned to the SDLP.
It neatly encapsulates just why the SDLP have failed to make any impact upon the nationalist electorate beyond a small number of areas of the six counties in the past decade.
Sinn Fein to blame for demise of deferential era to authority?? Straight out of the Norman Tebbit school of tabloid assertions, that one.
Maybe Sinn Fein are to blame for suicides in Tigers Bay, rioting in Bangor and the lack of a city centre in Craigavon as well, Pol?
As a fellow Simmarian, I too have many memories of west Belfast over the past twenty years. Whilst people today are impatient for anti-social behaviour to be tackled in an effective manner (and many, shooting from the hip, even calling for a return of kneecappings and beatings in newspaper vox pops and casual conversation) it is patently absurd to suggest that west Belfast today isn’t a better place than it was 20 years ago.
Just take a drive along the Falls Road and see the transformation of the area that has taken place in a matter of 15-20 years.
Now, that will, of course, not have impacted on everybody’s lives, but it sure as hell has made a difference to quite a number of people.
Those who seek to dismiss the residents of west Belfast as basically ignorant fools for continuing to support Sinn Fein are as guilty of a lazy sectarian mindset as anyone who would suggest that protestants in north Down/ east Belfast/ East Derry- and many places besides- are fools for continuing to support unionist politicians.
O’Muiri’s rather shallow analysis typifies the SDLP mindset which has led to their party in west Belfast being reduced to rump status.
It also ignores the fact that the west Belfast electorate are quite adept at altering their voting patterns if they do not believe their political representatives are acting in their best interests.
The fact that they have yet to do so in a manner suiting O’Muiri says it all.
btw The Malone Road remark made me particularly laugh; I know of only one Sinn Fein member in west Belfast residing in that part of town (and fair play to him, by the way.) But what would that have to do with anything? If living with your electorate is O’Muiri’s benchmark, than Sinn Fein representatives would win that contest hands down across the north.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 11:54 PMAye, right Dec! “Dhá pionta Guinness agus paicéad Cheese and Onion” more like! ;-)
As for West Belfast, through this discussion at least, it is beginning to resemble the moral of John Godfrey Saxe’s poem The Blind Men and the Elephant.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 12:06 AM“O’Muiri’s rather shallow analysis typifies the SDLP mindset which has led to their party in west Belfast being reduced to rump status.”
And while your take on the SDLP’s demise may not be true the electoral patterns do tell the truth but then the issue that O’Muiri is making is one that SF represents something the SDLP doesn’t or will never have the chance to represent in its current state. Namely, a bankrupt micro-society tortured and ruptured by following too blindly many a misleading ‘truth’ created for the perpetuation of party political progress.
Where is this progress on the ground is all we ask.
What shall Sinn Fein give in return for so much?
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 12:32 AMBut I think what is underneath the surface is thirty years of bad blood arising from the operation of an illegal army within the community (and all the stresses and strains that that entails) as much as anything to do with the political or even cultural end of ‘the project’.
I know of only one army which operated illegally in west Belfast - the one whose soldiers wore a uniform and got paid by MOD. I presume that it’s the British Army you’re talking about....
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 12:43 AMRegardless of the active agents what is stated is true.
Today was spent sitting down with a friend at City Hall. We talked about Belfast and the real unattached feel that seems to be still there yet changes are happening at youth level.
We made mention of the fact of when growing up Belfast was a dash-in and dash-out town, easily walked around and no hanging about for obvious reasons.
Agreement was reached on this and the social attitudes of our elders are similar in that they don’t fancy Belfast as a night venue to eat in for example. They are conditioned from years of suspicion over Belfast as a social hub.
This mindset can easily be extrapolated into west Belfast life except much more intensely is what seems to be suggested.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 12:49 AMNamely, a bankrupt micro-society tortured and ruptured by following too blindly many a misleading ‘truth’ created for the perpetuation of party political progress.
Oh dear!
Question: Why do you vote Sinn Fein?
Answer: I’m tortured, blind and bankrupt.
Ahh, now I see it- head shaking (apologies to PB.)Mick
You may try to play down what O’Muiri is at, but if a similar article was written about protestant communities, oh let’s say in Derry, you would be the very first to suggest that adopting such a dismissive line was not only ignorant but a large part of the problem in this society.Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 12:49 AMThanks CD for your sardonic response. To be fair the same can also be said from many unionists who too question the approach taken over the years by those in never-never land.
The disengagement and associated rumbles are beginning to happen now the remaining guns are pointed downwards and the others supposedly decommissioned.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 12:55 AM
