Tuesday, October 27, 2009
UUP will become the ‘eccentric maiden aunt who lives in the Dave’s house’...
Below the fold we have a letter from four prominant party dissidents to the New Force deal between the UUP and the Tories… Their case, in part, is that the local party is putting the whole of its not inconsiderable political capital up for grabs to a new set of political opportunists (ie, the Cameroons)... Jim Nicholson’s loss of the role of Quaestor is just the first of a number of political prices the party will have to pay if it continues down the route it is going… But perhaps the key point, from their point of view, lies in the following rhetorical question:
Will those working class constituencies which have always returned Ulster Unionists still do so once it becomes clear that the Ulster Unionists have become little more than the eccentric old maiden aunt who lives in David Cameron’s house but to whom no one pays a blind bit of notice.
Hmmm… A maiden aunt to join the the mad old uncle drinking himself to death in the attic?
Dear Sir Reg
If there is one thing that the Ulster Unionist Party did not need it was a short term fix. Throughout its history the UUP has been a party which had the foresight and the commitment to fend off Irish independence, to form the Government of Northern Ireland, and to keep Northern Ireland running over half a century, including the challenging period of the Second World War. Today it appears that the UUP does not have the vision to see across to the far side of the Albertbridge Road.
There is no doubt that our Party had been floundering to redefine its role within Northern Ireland after the DUP stole its clothes and brought in a large number of UUP members to steer the DUP along the route laid out by David Trimble and the Ulster Unionists. But, rather than despairing and embarking on a journey which, as history tells us, will lead to betrayal and disappointment at the hands of the British Tories, the UUP should have forged a Unionist strategy for Northern Ireland.
The new arrangement is a great deal for the Conservatives.
They tried and failed to gain support here over a decade ago. In the 1992 General Election they received 5.7% of the popular vote. Their last outing was in the 1993 Local Government Elections when 9437 brave souls gave the Conservatives their First Preference Votes.
Under this new dispensation the UUP leadership are offering the Tories a Northern Ireland wide organisation, tens of thousands of loyal voters, around 150 councillors, over 20 MLAs and two seats at the Executive table at Stormont.
What does our Party receive in return? At one Executive Committee meeting we were assured that we would have two seats at the Cabinet table in any new Tory administration. Furthermore there are winks and nudges about strong financial support from Tory Central Office. Spin doctors, psephologists and various other types of tactical support will be forthcoming we are assured. Well, we will wait and see.
In return for this the UUP leadership has clearly handed over control of the new movement to the English Conservatives. The very name Ulster Conservatives and Unionists New Force indicates our subordination. But one need look no further that the European Election . The UUP had been members of the European Peoples’ Party for all of Jim Nicholson’s European career.It was a grouping he was happy with and it had treated him and the UUP well - making him one of its three Quaestors. However, David Cameron did not favour the EPP and because Jim had to take the Tory whip he had to leave and join another more right wing group replete with some fairly dodgy eastern European MEPs.
In addition,we are now approaching a General Election wherein our candidates have to be jointly selected by the handful of Northern Ireland Tories. Some constituencies have been told that they must select Tories irrespective of the wishes of the local activists. Others have been told to delay selection meetings until secret discussions have been undertaken with London. Never in the history of the UUP have we submitted to another party having the final say as to who we should run for election.
Historically the Ulster Unionist Party was a uniting force within the pro-British community. Irrespective of your national politics you could be an Ulster Unionist. Left and Right could sit together in the same branch. Even when our MPs took the Tory whip the party remained a uniting force within Ulster. No longer.
Having shackled ourselves to the Tories what happens to UUP influence when they are not in office? What do we do if Cameron does not win a clearcut majority at the next election? Our Westminster strategy will lie in tatters.
Perhaps more to the point, how will this effect our opportunities of maximising UUP representation at Assembly and Council level. Will those working class constituencies which have always returned Ulster Unionists still do so once it becomes clear that the Ulster Unionists have become little more than the eccentric old maiden aunt who lives in David Cameron’s house but to whom no one pays a blind bit of notice.
The Ulster Unionist Party had had a pact with the pro-British community in Ireland and subsequently Northern Ireland since 1905. We were always an amalgam of Left, Right and Centre. That has been jettisoned by the leadership. At Council level we may well suffer a reaction from working class districts, especially in urban areas.
Perhaps you, Sir Reg, and the rest of the leadership should remember the advice given to Edward Carson when he followed a similar road. “Be careful Edward, the Tories have never adopted a cause yet but they have betrayed it in the end.”
Yours sincerely
Roy Garland, Dr Christopher McGimpsey, George Fleming, Councillor Ronnie Ferguson.
Mick Fealty @ 12:36 PM
Can some people not move out of the past? things have to change, normal politics anywhere in the world is divided Right/Left. Or to put it even blunter the UUP is dead if it thinks it can go on the way it was, the DUP has stole all its clothes there, only by becoming a “conservative” party, which most of its voters are and starting the difficult task to drawing in catholic voters can it survive. From that point of view they have been given an enormous gift hourse in a Mainland tory leader on the up who believes in the union, yes it is sad that so on the left will not be able to adjust but the road to normal politics aint an easy one.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 02:21 PMThey have a point . In fact several. As a non unionist I cannot endorse their party affiliation but from a purely political perspective it sounds like the ‘eccentric old aunt ’ has put the family silver up for sale to the only bidder .
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 02:28 PMHow and why does a letter like this get made public - I have no respect for leaks like this.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 02:31 PM</em>pro-British community</em>
Might be their (self-described) progressive way to describe the Unionist partys’ *traditional* target electorate… but it’s still communal and rooted in the dark ages.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 02:35 PM“Irrespective of your national politics you could be an Ulster Unionist. Left and Right could sit together in the same branch.”
Thats not how normal politics works!
They just cannot see the big picture. Small minds with a small mentality living in a small world.
If they are concerned about left politics they can leave and help jump start the Northern Ireland Labour Party.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 02:38 PMProminent? Prominent? Well from regular whiging I guess that’s true. Not respected. Not widely supported. Not important. Yes prominent.
Heard McGimpsey on the radio - twice he peddled the lie that NI Tories have only 120 members - in reality its more like 400.
Most parties in NI have less than 2000 members - UUP has 1900.His main line seems to be that we cant trust the Tories because they will let you down - so better to be ‘ourselves alone’ And this guy is a unionist.
At the risk of being called sexist it all reeks of a male committment phobia. i.e. we better not shack up with the Tories they might leave me/ I might meet someone better!
At their age I would have thought these four would have got past that!
BTW re Nicholson - he got those positions not because the UUP were in the EPP but because he was backed by the Tories!!!
Very revealing that they refer to the Conservative Party as English Tories - on the very day their Deputy Leader proclaimed his support for the Union. Such petty nationalism - perhaps Roy hasnt lost his firebrand evangical bigotry after all!!
As far a ‘subordination’ goes the Conservative Party are a huge party of the entire UK that has five times as many councillors as the UUP has members! And nearly 200 times as many MPs - before the General Election of course the UUP will be subordiante but it is about being part of a bigger entity for the good of the Union.
The alternative ‘ourselves alone’ keeping ourselves aloof from the politics of the UK - no-one who pursues such a strategy should call themselves a unionist (
Finally as for the working class vote thing. The UUP working class vote is already tiny but more importantly it is a pathetically dated view of how the electorate views itself and settles on its beliefs. Secondly
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 02:40 PMEccentric? That’s rich! Add Dr John Coulter and you’ve filled a mini bus for day release.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 02:51 PMAnyone remember Reggie’s last link up? Reg is not a strategic thinker, as evidenced by his non stop trail of errors from day one. They may blame the DUP’s stolen clothes for their losses, and certainly they would be partially correct. But a certain degree of their staggering lack of success has stemmed from Reggie’s incompetence.
We shall see how things work out for the link up, the UUs will get access to the Tory campaign machine, which might be a good thing, though in fairness being a social misfit, freak or ex prisoner is almost required for a political career here. You don’t need spin in this place, you can just come clean (unless you’re getting a sports massage from a gay man in a Belfast hotel wha).
The other much touted benefit is the direct line to the PM’s office, once DC gets in that is. But DC has stated that he won’t overrule the wishes of the Assembly for the UUs, and proper order obviously, just cause you’re in business with the PM doesn’t mean you get to run roughshod over democracy. So you have a direct line to the PM, kind of like the way the DUP, SF and to a lesser extent the smaller parties have a line to the PM now. So if the UUs do well in the election they’ll have a line to the PM that they would have had anyway and they won’t be able to do anything with (bar beg for cash, or campaign help).
In the end you’re left with two scenarios as I see it. Either the UUs get a bit of the celebrity effect, having Hague, Cameron and other articulate people visit will give them a boost, and they make gains (hey the only way is up, right). Or the whole thing doesn’t net you many gains, and the previously fairly straight talking and reasonably unpopular UUs will be aligned with the duplicitous and extremely dislikeable Tories.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 02:54 PMCan we leave the ad hominem stuff out of it…? Please!!
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 03:03 PMSlugger O’Toole Admin
Have I missed something or some new rule here - suggesting that Wee Reggie will be oxtered oot if this liaison crashes is ” ad hominem “?
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 03:27 PMdisinterested observer @ 02:40 PM “Heard McGimpsey on the radio - twice he peddled the lie that NI Tories have only 120 members - in reality its more like 400. Most parties in NI have less than 2000 members - UUP has 1900.”
McGimpsey said on the radio the UUP had 140 councillors and 18 MLA’s at present. The Conservatives have no MP’s and no MLA’s here, so maybe distinguished observer or some other Tory member can inform us how many councillors do they have in local councils after 20 years on the NI political scene?
Do David Cameron and the Tories honestly expect all UUP councillors and MLA’s to just join the Conservative party after this Westminster Election? Otherwise what road does the UUP expect to take if UCUNF win no MP’s seats in May 2010?
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 03:37 PMdisinterested observer @ 02:40 PM “Heard McGimpsey on the radio - twice he peddled the lie that NI Tories have only 120 members - in reality its more like 400.
McGimpsey did not tell a lie. See here:
Electoral performance
“The Conservatives in Northern Ireland currently have a low support base, attracting 0.5% of the poll (3,500 votes) in the 2007 Assembly election. As of 2007, they currently have no elected representatives in the Northern Ireland Assembly or Parliament. Their sole Councillor was elected as an Ulster Unionist in 2005,[6] and saw his total first preference vote more than half when standing in a much larger area in 2007.[7]
The party’s best performance came in the 1992 UK general election, when party candidates polled 44,608 votes across Northern Ireland: 5.7% of the total. Their best performance came in the North Down constituency, where the local party chairman, Laurence Kennedy, came second, 5,000 votes behind the sitting MP James Kilfedder.Subsequently, the party rapidly declined. In the 1993 council elections, the party lost five council seats, being reduced to six councillors across Northern Ireland. In North Down, the party’s support more than halved, from 25% in 1989 to 11% in 1993, although they narrowly managed to win a seat in all four North Down electoral areas. Laurence Kennedy quit Northern Irish politics a few months later, while the party’s councillors in Lisburn and Carrick left the party to sit as Independent Unionists. In 1997 they were reduced to two council seats in North Down. Both councillors retired before the 2001 council elections and the party failed to defend one of their seats in 2001 with the other lost, leaving them without elected representation in Northern Ireland.”
Policy
“The party in Northern Ireland was largely opposed to the Good Friday Agreement, in contrast to the national leadership who were in favour.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatives_in_Northern_IrelandPosted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 03:53 PMdrumlin’s rock ,
‘Can some people not move out of the past? ‘
Some yes but a lot of people in NI across the divide have too much invested in the past to have any mental energies left over to consider their future .
’ things have to change,’
Why ? Things may change or it might be an improvement to change , depending on the kind of change but change for purely the sake of change is soon seen as cosmetic.
’ normal politics anywhere in the world is divided Right/Left.’
Tha may be but NI is not just anywhere in the world . It has it’s own little universe which keeps it insulated against the ahem ‘world ’ outside .
‘Otherwise what road does the UUP expect to take if UCUNF win no MP’s seats in ‘
The long and winding road back to the beginning of wherever they have ever been or will most likely ever be .Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 04:02 PMWhat Ulster Unionists need is an Irish Conservative/Labour/Lib Dem party to choose from.
No one party can be all things to all men.
This letter while highlighting the UU party’s success’s suffers from amnesia about its catastrophic failures.
Maybe this shotgun marriage will be another failure. The Ulster Unionist party has gotten used to dealing with failure though.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 04:05 PM“Perhaps you, Sir Reg, and the rest of the leadership should remember the advice given to Edward Carson when he followed a similar road. “Be careful Edward, the Tories have never adopted a cause yet but they have betrayed it in the end.””
Who gave that advice? Anyone know?
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 04:06 PMJEB
>>..I have no respect for leaks like this.<<
I had a leak once, it was in the bog but after gettin the dodgy taps dealt with the leak stopped. Perhaps there is something wrong on the goodship UNCUF?
I am amazed that concern for working class Unionists is raised as an issue here, when has that ever been an issue? And aren’t working class Unionists not fed up with gettin used and abused by these shysters?
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 04:09 PMPE,
“I am amazed that concern for working class Unionists is raised as an issue here, when has that ever been an issue? And aren’t working class Unionists not fed up with gettin used and abused by these shysters? “
Perhaps “working class” is code for those less reasonable than the leadership (hard to imagine at times) who do not want a Fenain about the place e.g. South Belfast.
Regarding the statement “But, rather than despairing and embarking on a journey which, as history tells us, will lead to betrayal and disappointment at the hands of the British Tories”
Perhaps this is also set to appeal to those in the party unhappy with the unequivocal support by the Tories for the GFA. It is still a moot point if the majority of Unionists (UU and otherwise)actually do support the GFA/STA and they are now entering an alliance in which their support is assumed.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 04:24 PMYes, I can see the benefits of this deal. I understand the attraction of national politics / no longer on the window-ledge of the union stuff. But only a fool looks at benefits and ignores the potential costs.
For the general election, the UUP will likely run in 9 constituencies and the Tories will likely run in 9 constituencies. The UUP must abdicate its ambitions in 9 constituencies and commit resources towards getting people elected who will not owe them primary allegiance.
The UUP is allowing itself to act as surrogate for another party’s electoral ambitions. This will be very difficult for local activists to rationalise (as in South Belfast).
In North Down, the likely scenario is either Ian Parsley or an independent Sylvia Hermon returned. Will there really be any other UCUNF MPs? This deal will likely mean the UUP loses Commons representation (for the first time in its history?).
Things have not been nailed down. This deal does not extend to the Assembly election. Activists are being asked to put in the hours to get Tories elected in 2010 but, as it stands, the Tories will return the favour by running against the UUP in 2012. How many seats go Tory then?
But what if the UUP agrees an electoral pact in 2012? Is it any better? The UUP must still hand over winnable seats to Tory candidates. So this electoral pact may not directly increase the UUP’s representation. Some electoral pact.
If this pact works and the Tories become strong, then UUP will have had to sacrifice seats and sacrificed their independence. It’s that simple – that’s what the letter is referring to when it talks about to the aunt no one listens to.
But if this pact fails (like the PUP one), then the UUP will have managed to cause more internal bloody chaos for no reason.
To my mind, this deal does not make sense as a mere electoral pact. It is so skewed towards the Tories. In order for the UUP leadership to enjoy the maximum benefit, and to compensate for their sacrifices (eg. Sylvia Hermon’s defenestration), it would make better sense for them if the long-term goal is merger.
I do fear that continuing this deal may imperil the long-term future of the UUP as a political party in its own right. So I can understand what the gang of four are on about, and it’s not a dishonourable position to hold.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 04:40 PMwell put really not convinced. I wonder if Lady Hermons continued (but frosty) relationship indicates that Dave will provide a nice job for her prior to the election to ensure less competition for Parsley.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 05:11 PMThe only surprise is that this attack did not come earlier. I note that at least one of these names has been opposed to the pact since its inception.
The leaders of the UUP would not have been naive enough to think there would be no opposition. Their battle-hardened experience over the Belfast Agreement in the past which led to their electoral downturn would have taught them that. I would reckon that Sir Reg is delighted that so much progress has already been made before this come out.
This sort of gambit would have been anticipated.
I think the dissidents will have debated the impact of their letter before or after the joint committee begin to select candidates.
I dont think their cries will be heard very far or make much impact. I believe they have made their move too late.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 07:54 PMThese people have a good argument but one which they themselves undermine by inaccuracy. The UUP was not a member of the European People’s Party.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 08:30 PMI think Seymour has got it about right there, it is quite an achievement to get the pact this far, and this is the true test period, one thing for sure every persepective candidate must give a reassurance to support all the others selected whether UUP or Tory, Orangeman, Catholic Woman or Athiest.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 08:43 PM‘fend off Irish independence’
Hmmm quite…because y’know, independence and self-determination for inferior peoples is such a horrid backward concept !Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 09:07 PMSeymour’s comment the most balanced - and I suspect the most accurate
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 11:31 PMSeymour Major @ 07:54 PM. “I dont think their cries will be heard very far or make much impact. I believe they have made their move too late.’
Agreed, but they have also spoken out to prove they are not like the many others who are led by the nose like nodding donkeys. The real truth will only come to the fore with the electorate in 2010.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2009 @ 11:50 PM
