Monday, October 13, 2008
UUP and TUV meet
The TUV and UUP have held a joint meeting to discuss possible electoral pacts in any forth coming elections. I will reproduce the joint statement below the fold:
Joint statement by Sir Reg Empey MLA and Jim Allister MEP
”Leadership delegations from the Ulster Unionist Party and Traditional Unionist Voice have met to review the unfolding political situation and to discuss ways of maximising the Unionist vote in upcoming elections. In addition the position relating to the Lisbon Treaty and resulting likely developments in the EU were explored.
We had a worthwhile and cordial engagement and look forward to continuing contact.
With the European Election, as the next scheduled election, coming up in June, we agreed on the priority of retaining two unionist representatives in Europe. This should be the overriding priority of all unionists in respect of this election. Such is only attainable by full utilisation of transfers between the unionist candidates. Thus, we agreed to recommend such a voting strategy to all unionist voters.
The UUP delegation consisted of Sir Reg Empey MLA, Jim Nicholson MEP and Danny Kennedy MLA. The TUV delegation consisted of Jim Allister MEP, Ivor McConnell (Party Chairman) and Samuel Morrison (Party Press Officer).”
It is clear that both the UUP and TUV will be running candidates in the European elections and as such there is no suggestion of an electoral pact for Europe. Whether or not there will be further meetings and whether or not the parties will be meeting with the DUP and what they will make of the meeting remains to be seen.
Turgon @ 02:25 PM
How very pointless
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 02:37 PMWhat a pathetic demonstration of the utter uselessness of the UUP.
Policies .. ?
No, just circle those unionist wagons, to stop themmuns getting more seats. All that matters is ”maximising the Unionist vote”.
If it was April 1 we’d all be laughing by now. But it’s October 13, so I guess this is a serious post.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 02:40 PMThe original negotiators of the agreement trying to come to a pact with those who still reject it. Crazy world.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 02:42 PMIs this a signal that Sir Reg is abandoning the idea of a deal with the Tories? Has Jim Nicholson been told?
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 02:43 PMIf anything proves just how cynical, self-serving and twisted the one-man TUV is this is it.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 02:46 PMReminds me of the saying, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 02:50 PMDid David Cameron give this the all clear!
It could be a smokescreen while the Conservatives dissapear(wise move)over the hill after the Limavaddy backwoodsmen let the mask slip.Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 02:50 PMHmmm..... really is the dregs of unionist politics.
Two parties who have little in common other than a mutual loathing of the DUP claim they’re putting together a “voting strategy for unionism”.
Well excuse me for not putting a lot of importance on this self-serving little agreement. If they were really serious about unionists working together then they might speak to all parties.
Clearly Jim and Jim (Nicholson & Allister) have realised that one of them is going to lose their seat at the next Euro election (Allister starting as fav for that position)..... The UUs have absolutely nothing to gain from this nonsense but have allowed Allister to suck them into a meeting and thereby give him some credibility.
Slimy politics and (from the UUP’s point of view at least) its just plain stupid.
Wonder why the TUV “Party Chairman” and “Press Officer were there.... trying to save their jobs?
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 02:52 PMFor the European election, this would make sense from a pan-unionist point of view.
If we take it as read that the DUP candidate is going to top the unionist side with SF on the nationalist one that leaves TUV and UUP battling it out with the SDLP for the third seat.
A vote pact should ensure that a unionist easily secures the third seat.
It also opens the way for unionists to vote TUV without fear of losing a European seat, thus lowering the size of the DUP vote and giving Robinson a bloody nose in the process.
If the UUP are amenable to this, it would appear that their internal polling is telling them that they aren’t guaranteed the third seat as things stand.
Of course, this is just firefighting because the declining vote issue will only be pushed down the line to the next election.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:00 PMI’m sure the TUV would welcome the opportunity to discuss these matters with all parties. However, the DUP leader (and his predecessor) seems more comfortable with front men for the IRA:
http://www.jimallister.co.uk/default.asp?blogID=1117Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:03 PMAlternatively, Jim Allister could do the honourable thing for Unionism, satnd down and allow the DUP and the UUP to retain the 2 seats for Unionism - what are the odds of Chairman Jim putting his collosal ego aside and biting the bullet for the team?
As for Reg - this just looks incredibly weak - first the PUP, then the Tories now the far-right fringe.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:04 PMGeorge
“For the European election, this would make sense from a pan-unionist point of view.”Agreed, but you can’t secure two unionist seats with two minority unionist parties. If Empey was really serious about this then he wouldn’t have thrown out Robinson’s call for closer working relations on the day he became DUP leader.
If the UUP are intent on getting into bed with the TUV then it runs any possibility of a proper mainstream unionist working relationship given that Allister would clearly rather sacrifice his children than acknowledge the DUP.
This is all about mutual loathing of the DUP and nothing to do with proper unionist co-operation. In the process they actually damage the prospects of succeding in their stated aims.
Again, its just slimy politics and typically Reg has got sucked in. There’s nothing for the UUP to gain in this nonsense but thanks to his loathing of the DUP he’s allowed Allister to use him - the fool never learns.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:05 PMHalf Pint
“I’m sure the TUV would welcome the opportunity to discuss these matters with all parties. However, the DUP leader (and his predecessor) seems more comfortable with front men for the IRA:”You need to let your dad coach you a little more..... Even the “Press Officer” mightn’t be stupid enough to come out with that crap.
So the DUP are palling it up with the ‘IRA’. When did we hear your new best pal Reg telling everyone to get out of Government then?
I remember well the UUP party political broadcast in advance of the 07 Assembly Election where they told people they wanted to go into Government no matter what the circumstances were about support for the police etc etc etc.
It seems that TUV policy is to support people who’d go into Government with SF under any circumstances but not those who asked for delivery.
Also Half Pint - that link you posed just highlights your stupidity. ..... If Chairman Jim wrote to Paisley (or Robinson) as First Minister then they wouldn’t be meeting him as the DUP leader but as the First Minister...... Why the First Minister would want to meet someone who’s so cagey about revealing his expenses is another matter of course.....
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:10 PM“he wouldn’t have thrown out Robinson’s call for closer working relations on the day he became DUP leader. “
Evidence for this claim?
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:16 PMI think the UUP needs to seriously sit down very soon and decide where it is going.
We have offered them a fresh and exciting new way to enthuse Northern Ireland politics, but I don’t think we envision old fashioned deals like this one as the way to do it.
Let’s look forward and not back.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:18 PMSpeech to the UUP conference?
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:18 PMCarson’s Cat,
Thank you for your reasoned and humble response. I’m sure the TUV delegation made it very clear to Sir Reg that he should get out of gov with the IRA right away. It’s only on that basis that true Unionists can build unity.
Secondly, yes the UUP did say they were going into gov with the Provos before the election. Therefore, they were honest Lundies. The DUP, on the other hand, were dishonest Lundies and wouldn’t make this clear. Name one substantial difference between the SF of 6th March and 8th May. Just one. I’m not defending with the UUP did – they are traitors too – but they were more honest than your bunch.
Re link – thanks for pointing out my stupidity. However, perhaps you would like to address the issue raised in that press release. Why is the joint First Minister so reluctant to meet a fellow Unionist?
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:20 PMTory
That’s the point, Reg Empey hasn’t a clue where he’s going.
He clearly has no confidence in the UUP brand - pretty poor for the party leader.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:21 PMShillers....
Speech by Reg Empey to UUP AGM.......
“And I know, too, that Peter will try and cosy up to us with soft words about cooperation and the need to maximise the overall unionist vote. But let no-one forget that his fingerprints are on every aspect of the DUP’s tactics and strategies over the past decades. He, personally, ran the propaganda machine that spat out most of the venom at this party.So let me put it bluntly: the Ulster Unionist Party didn’t endure the orchestrated abuse against us since 1997; or the tidal wave of attacks upon our integrity; or the vilification of our leading figures; simply to strike up a marriage of convenience with a DUP which is worried about the impact of Jim Allister.
Maybe we should have seen the seeds sown that day.... Both parties have a hatred for the DUP which is driving them together, probably against their own better instincts. However, it would appear they both just cant help it.
We’ve seen it in the two Council by-elections where the TUV openly canvassed for the UUP in Enniskillen, and advocated transfers in Dromore. They loathe each others policies, but they just loathe the DUP that little bit more.....
I wonder just how much this tactic is going to appeal to the “Garden Centre Prod” which Reg & co put so much stock in. How is this going to appeal to the aspiring N.I Tory voter that apparently they want to attract.
Reg doesn’t have a strategic bone in his body and he just catapults from one rubbish idea to another in the hope that one idea, one day is going to work for him and his party. Its just pure stupidity.
The UUP need to find a narrative and stick to it. They’re either pro-Government or they’re opposed to it. At the minute they appear to be both. That’s where their troubles lay under Trimble - people just didn’t know what they were going to get with the UUP and I suppose its no wonder they’re going back down that road now. After all, Reg is just a cr*p Trimble-lite.
Its probably pity which they need most of all....
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:39 PMHalf Pint
“I’m not defending with the UUP did – they are traitors too – but they were more honest than your bunch.”Should make for a snappy TUV/UUP election slogan....
Or maybe you’ll run with
“(The UUP are)honest Lundies. The DUP, on the other hand, were dishonest Lundies”
What was it the two parties had in common again???......
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:47 PMOf course Reg was talking about something entirely different and I suspect you know it. The word marriage if a reference to any one Unionist party nonsense that was in the air at that time.
Myself, I don’t think that there is a good chance of Unionism winning either of the target seats, Fair Deal seems to have broadly similar thoughts, he certainly doesn’t think Spratt is much cop
http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/should-unionism-do-a-salmond-in-south-belfast/But that’s just my opinion.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:52 PMTime for a chill pill methinks. Two Unionist parties have met and discussed elections. Big deal.
The subtext of the meeting would appear to be a transfer deal a la Dromore (except this time official). However with three seats this is not a Dromore region wide scenario. In the Euro elections such a deal should ensure a second Unionist seat, although with Alban’s selection for the SDLP the threat to the second seat looked much diminished anyway. They might also be discussing something similar if there is an Assembly election.
In both the UUP would appear to me to be the likeliest beneficiaries of any arrangements.
First time out TUV Assembly candidates are probably going to get half a quota or less similar to what happened before (unless they find some good candidates). If they transfered on block they’d make UUP seats safe and maybe secure a second seat in a few constituencies.
Don’t quite see what the TUV gets out of it. They may want a ‘keep your two MEPs’ riff but don’t see that particularly flying. No one thinks the electoral maths has changed so much that the DUP are in second or third place in Unionism.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:59 PMMichael
The target seats can be won with co-operation. That is the key to the thing. I hope that in your dislike for the DUP you have simply resigned yourself to 2 candidates running in each seat and a further 4 years of nationalist representation in both.
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 03:59 PMshould read “have not simply resigned yourself”
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 04:01 PMSillboy
“Of course Reg was talking about something entirely different and I suspect you know it.”Maybe Reg was talking about something different - shame is that he was talking one thing whilst the DUP offer was clear:
Read the BBC report on what Robinson offered:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7355979.stm
It seems though that Reg wouldn’t touch that offer with one of John Taylor’s 40 foot barge poles but he’ll nip down to Allister’s comfy office to discuss the same with him...... Its just spineless stuff from the UUP who’d actually sacrifice their own future in an attempt to get one over on the DUP. Its quite sad really.
“Myself, I don’t think that there is a good chance of Unionism winning either of the target seats,”
These talks were primarily about the Euro election it would seem and not about ‘target seats’. I’d imagine that Jim Allister’s prime concern is Europe given the chance he wont exist poltically after that election. I’m not quite sure why both you and Turgon seem to have missed that fact - this is about Allister clinging to his political life and Reg Empey being the muppet we’ve all come to expect him to be and acceding to talks on it.
However, if we’re going to talk S.Belfast & F.S Tyrone then where’s the logic in dealing with Allister on those ones? Its been shown where the political will lies in Fermanagh and it ain’t with the loony toons.
Read the comments of Half Pint - apparently being the “acceptable lundies” in a political partnership is what you’re after - but that’s up to the glorious Cllr Empey I suppose. I suppose once you’ve tried the PUP, Tories and just about everyone else in town you might as well have a lash at hooking up with the TUV. George Galloway’s probably next!
Posted by on Oct 13, 2008 @ 04:02 PM
