Sunday, March 09, 2008
Trimble gloats: I lasted four years as First Minister. He lasted one…
IT’S hard not to detect a strong element of schadenfreude in David Trimble’s assessment of DUP leader Ian Paisley’s demise. Having signed up to the legislative ‘twin’ of the Good Friday Agreement - the St Andrews Deal - the former first minister obviously feels his DUP successor has travelled a similar route to himself - but with less personal success. Accusing Paisley of having lost his credibility and the party of not having been ‘transparent’, Trimble added: “It has to be said that Ian Paisley has had quite an influence in Northern Ireland politics over the past four decades - from the ‘O’Neill Must Go’ phase to the ‘Trimble Out’ era. Most of it, however, has been negative, and when he was called upon to be positive, he failed to measure up. It’s one thing shouting from the political sideslines - it’s quite another thing actually governing a country. I lasted four years as First Minister. He lasted one. And I would ask a final question - would Terence O’Neill have shared power with the IRA while he was Prime Minister of Northern Ireland? I leave that one hanging in the air…”
Belfast Gonzo @ 12:18 AM
To be fair,Trimble helped to change the political landscape here,whatever his reasons. For the UUP it has been a very difficult time electorally since 1998,however had the agreement not been signed then,we would not have had any agreement now. The GFA/BA(depending on your point of view)became the only show in town.Had Paisley played a more positive role then,his party may not have been so strong,but his country would have.We would have had 10 years of stability,and perhaps less acrimony.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 03:59 AMHistory will be fair to him. The only unionist leader since Terence o’Neill to realise what the future held and to try and position unionists for eventual reunification.
Loved that last twist of the knife.Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 04:41 AMA bitter man that history judge as a failure.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 07:46 AMFair play to him.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 09:15 AMIt’s interesting to observe the praise heaped on Paisley since he betrayed the principles on which he stood for election. There’s nothing nationalists like more than a vichy unionist, and in that regard, Trimble is well placed to comment on Paisley.
Danny O’Connor claims that had the initially anti-Agreement DUP been pro-Agreement, then we would have 10 years of stability. I doubt the DUP being anti-agreement led to all those IRA, UVF and UDA murders and maimings that epitomise “peace” for peace processors.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 09:45 AMWith out Paisley we would not have had decommissioning and Sinn fein support for Policing that is something Trmble could never get sounds like sour grapes even 50/50 recruitment to the PSNI is going Trimble got a bad deal Paisley a better one.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 09:51 AMAttaboy David!
Trimble’s the one who really deserves to be compared to the likes of Carson and Craig, not Paisley who merely accepted the inevitable and followed in the UUP’s wake.
On the unionist side, were it not for Trimble and the pro-Agreement UUPs courageousness post-1998, and their willingness to sacrifice party interests in the wider interest of Northern Ireland there would never have been the sort of power sharing we see now.
I think the Dromore result is the first sign the unionist electorate are starting to recognise that - even the TUV voters transferred more to the UUP than DUP on the basis that whilst they may disagree with them the UUP were honest and fortright about their intentions unlike the DUP - up to and including the election last year where they hung the banner on the M2 stating “Ready for Government on March 26th”.
It says a hell of a lot for the UUP that they were willing to sacrifice their party’s interests for the wider good of Northern Ireland - and certainly they were under no illusion about the electoral cost they would have to pay for that.
The times they sure are a changin’...
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 09:52 AM“With out Paisley we would not have had decommissioning and Sinn fein support for Policing that is something Trmble could never get…”
typical dupper spin-doctor BS - the UUP secured the start to decommissioning, you guys just capitalised on the fact that the SF/IRA army council made the cynical calculation that a deal with Paisley was worth hanging on in for, hence they shafted the UUP and hung out until they could make the exact same deal with you guys.
the UUP were honest with the unionist people - even up to the election last year the DUP still couldn’t be straight with the voters and were still pretending they mightn’t go into government - until like 0.0001 seconds after the votes were counted when we suddenly had the paisley-adams press conference.
give me honesty over duplicity any day of the week!
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 09:59 AM“Danny O’Connor claims that had the initially anti-Agreement DUP been pro-Agreement, then we would have 10 years of stability. I doubt the DUP being anti-agreement led to all those IRA, UVF and UDA murders and maimings that epitomise “peace” for peace processors.”
Dave Vance without Paisley there wouldnt have been the conditions for the IRA to exist. Paisley was one of the main instigaters of the conflict . He was the IRA’s best recruiter. He was steeped terrorism. His own party memebers even as recently as the last fortnight in stoneyford have openly (as seen on UTV) stood with and supported loyalist paramilitaries attacks on catholics
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:05 AMTrimble’s comments on Paisley will no doubt be repeated often when the latter’s role is considered by future generations. Interesting that having denounced the treachery of every unionist leader for over 40 years, there may be one who will be around to write with some degree of intellectual vigour a little bit of the history that determines Paisley’s place.
Trimble clearly enjoyed his cold dish.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:12 AMTrimble had the guts to do a deal but not the vision to sell his brand of unionism and equality to the nationalists.
He spent so much time looking over his shoulder at the DUP the he didn’t look over the fence at the SDLP and SF voters and communicate with them.
The enemies of Northern Ireland weren’t the SDLP and SF they were to be found closer to home in the DUP.
Paisley said today he had got SF into a ‘British Government’ and had therefore smashed them….Trimble got them into government first not him has his memory failed so badly?
What unionist wouldn’t accept O’Neill’s trip to Dublin and Sunningdale today, both were destroyed by Mr NO.
Trimble will be the man history jusges to have been right, but not effective enough, not the ‘Johnny come lately’ to power sharing Paisley. Nor do I believe it will shine kindly upon Blair either.
But for all that, we are entering a dangerous phase now Paisley is going. What fragmentation of unionism is still to come as his followers, there were many who followed him not the DUP, may move to the right towards the TUV.
Interesting times…..........
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:22 AMAhhhh Trimble - he’s still raging it seems. He probably still reckons he deserves more credit for that hand in hand jig with Dr No along the Garvaghy, when in fact he looked just like another desperate hanger on.
Its a wonder he didn’t add “and I won the Nobel Peace Prize into the bargain, so there Paisley, beat that” - when in fact Paisly did beat that. Love him or loath him Paisley’s agreeing to St Andrews was a lot more important than any of the previous legwork ginger did.
In a way, if Trimble was the unionist John the Baptist, Dr No was, ahhhhh - hold on sometimes you can stretch comparisons just too far….Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:27 AMTruth and Justice gives a very good account of the leadership provided by the big man. Why then was he instructed to go? Why has there not been an outpouring of regret and buckets of tears that he has decided to retire from all the downbeats who owe their big pay packets to the Doc. The silence of the foot troops has been deafening but then they have become a party of robots programmed by control freaks in their press office. Oh for the good old days when the shouts of Sinn Fein/IRA from our super prod Duppers echoed accross our land!
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:40 AM“In a way, if Trimble was the unionist John the Baptist, Dr No was”
Salome?
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:41 AMWhile I don’t think Unionism punched its weight under Trimble, I do think, in fact I’m almost sure, history will judge him better than Paisley, who has always been a populist and an opportunist. You can already see it in the post-mortems from the recent hearts and minds programme. Aside from the politicos and peace-processors (who are obliged to find the best in the worst elements of NI), nobody really has anything very flattering to say about him.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:43 AMYes Paisley lasted a year because the DUP and Paisley had the good sense to realise it was time for change while the UUP and Trimble just carried on regardless and ended up a shadow of themselves. Which was the more sensible approach by a political party and leader?
If Trimble really does want to be viewed positively in history the best thing he should do is to shut up. Putting on repeated displays of his central personal/character flaws provides ample eveidence for the criticism.
Personally think Dean Godson has written the most definitive appreciation of Trimble and he doesn’t come out of it well.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:51 AMNice pith ;o)
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:52 AMQuiz Master
His own party memebers even as recently as the last fortnight in stoneyford have openly (as seen on UTV) stood with and supported loyalist paramilitaries attacks on catholicPlease name them and use a spelling checker it may be helpful
Trimble achieved very little what he did do was to throw away vital concessions to Sinn Fien/IRA. Thankfully the DUP have pulled a lot back and stopped the concessions what Trimble got out of it was loads of dosh and a seat in the Lords.
And of course we have the arch critic of the DUP David Vance trying to rewrite the last week from without, he has not a clue, the DUP members did not push Dr Paisley his family did that for him.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:01 AMDavid Vance,
Mandates are what count, not principles; and if you think there was anything principled about unionism over the past 40 years prior to St Andrew’s, I strongly recommend you think again. There’s no point in having principles if they’re wrong, and the principle of “no taigs in government” seems now to be one that has comprehensively been put to bed.
Chuckling but not a brother:
The silence of the foot troops has been deafening but then they have become a party of robots programmed by control freaks in their press office.
When has the DUP ever been anything else ?
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:03 AMTrimble is so far up his a*s.
He should just shut up and stop trying to grind his axe.
Trimble and his UUP punched way below their weight and sold out any Unionist principle.
He jump three times into government with IRA/Sinn Fein. And would have done again in 2003 had his party won the election.
The UUP are a non-sense and irrelevant. Yes they won the seat in Dromore, but they lost votes. In answer to the claim TUV voters voted for the UUP before the DUP in Dromore due to ‘the honesty of the UUP’ they should really catch a grip. People voted TUV, then UUP - because a. they were told to and b. because they wanted to further bloody the DUP; thats how you can use PR effectively in the event the DUP would rely on TUV 2nd transfers.
The DUP have now gone into government against much Unionist annoyance and opinion - do you really think any one is happy about going into government with the Shinners? But unfortunately this is where Unionism finds itself - due to the decisions made by Trimble and Co.
The DUP offers a strong Unionist way forward unlike the UUP and TUV.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:08 AMthe UUP were honest with the unionist people
Ozy you should remember that only the victors in this case the DUP get to rewrite history - take a look at the UUP election literature over the last ten years and you might waht to retract that one. Anyway hasn;t Paisley been actually in office for nearly as long as Trimble thanks to his hokey cokey devolution?
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:10 AMComrade Stalin,
I rather agree that the leadership of unionism has been rotten for many years. However I think where we differ is in your comment that mandates are what matters, not principles. I see it the other way around, insofar as a man without principles has no moral anchor. Clearly this is a benefit in NI politics - esp post GFA, but you will appreciate that I do not let it pass.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:11 AMDave Vance without Paisley there wouldnt have been the conditions for the IRA to exist. -
What a load of BS, the IRAs campaign was based on the murder of as many british citizens as possible. The IRA wanted Brits out, all brits, men women and children and proved time and again they were willing to stoop to any level to achieve this
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:13 AMThere was no member of the DUP at Stoneyford on UTV. I think you’ll find it was Cecil Calvert (a supporter if not a member of TUV). He was one of the councillors who signed the letter in support of the formation of TUV.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:19 AMPeter the UUP was a hell of a lot more honest with the electorate than the DUPs were - last election the DUPs were still pretending they mightn’t go into govt or that they hadn’t made their minds up yet, all total bullshit given that within a few days of the election being safely over with they held the Paisley-Adams press conference and kicked off the chuckle brothers routine…
With the UUP you knew what you were voting for it was right up there in a gigantic banner on the side of their head office which every commuter into Belfast could see - ready for govt on March 26th.
The only reason the UUP lost votes in Dromore was because of Alliance and because voters were worried by idiot numpties like McNasty and Burnside trying to drive the party to the right of the DUP. But I think most voters saw that with Carol Black and Basil McCrea they were voting for a moderate centre-ground unionist party that reflected honest British mainstream unionist values.
The UUP took the risks and took the pain that came with that - got clobbered by the voters in the last few years and now the lesson of Dromore is that the voters are starting to come back to them because they know that with the UUP they’re getting Moderate Honest Unionism, straight-up no-bullshit, no-equivocation unlike the DUPs who will pretend to do one thing then do another.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 12:08 PM
