Sunday, March 16, 2008
Time for university to abandon neutrality..?
ÓGRA Shinn Féin is up in arms (just pictorially, I’m glad to say) about the ‘political protocol’ at the University of Ulster Students’ Union, which places fairly tight restrictions on party political organisation on campus. UU certainly was not a hotbed of party political activity when I attended, but on the other hand, Queen’s SU has a reputation of childish playground tribalism. Anyway, Ógra is facing disciplinary action for distributing a leaflet publicising a lecture which included images of masked gunmen. Ógra’s reason for using the image is the usual rhetorical platitudes ("We feel that it is right to remember the past, and only by remembering and talking about the past, can we truly move forward to a shared future” - yeah, you’re obviously putting yourselves out on a limb to ‘share’ there guys!) but is there a valid point lurking in there? Should UU open the political Pandora’s box and allow greater freedom to the various parties’ junior wings, despite the divisiveness that could result? If you agree with Ógra, you can sign their petition here, or SDLP Youth’s here. The SDLP group has been opposed to the UU policy for a number of years. Anyone know the unionist position? Could it even be the last thing the junior Gerrys and premature Peters ever agree on!? Don’t be expecting replies until after noon…
Belfast Gonzo @ 03:17 AM
http://www.apostles.com/devbanner.jpg
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 04:41 AMWhy should the University of Ulster become as bitter and divided as Queens? It’ll just become another opportunity for the local parties to promote on their sectarian policies. It won’t benefit the students one bit. Keep the politics out of higher education and let people be taught in a neutral environment.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 07:33 AMThe problem with what is called “neutrality” is it amounts to a sanitised nothingness.
I would definitely think UU should allow student politics on its grounds. The idea of a university which doesn’t allow political expression is a contradiction-in-terms.
If the local Ogra SF crowd insist on this sort of nonsense they’ll just make the same fools of themselves as their colleagues in TCD did last October with their sectarian “Brits Out” antics.
Allowing open student politics is probably the best way to stop this sort of crap (ie pictures of gunmen etc) as too many potential supporters would get alienated by it. Ban all politics altogether and they’ve got nothing to lose by hitting the faux-extremist note…
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 09:31 AMThe problem with what is called “neutrality” is it amounts to a sanitised nothingness.
What you have to understand, David, is that most people up here (especially younger people) are sick to the back teeth of politics bollocks, and they don’t want to even have to deal with it at university. I’d say you’ll find that the UU union is speaking for the majority of the students.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 10:27 AM‘The problem with what is called “neutrality” is it amounts to a sanitised nothingness. ‘
Nothing wrong with sanitised ‘nothingness’ . It certainly beats blood soaked stupidity . Students in NI should try to get the best degree they can so they can leave for better opportunities elsewhere in the UK or Republic or elsewhere .
Leave the local politics to the retards . They’re not going anywhere anyway ! Not because they don’t to -its just because thay can’t !Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 10:34 AMcorrection to last sentence above.
Not because they don’t WANT to -its just because they can’t !
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 10:36 AMUniversity campuses should certainly allow political organisation. It’s true that student politics more often is just the youngsters cutting their teeth and is largely, (if not completely) ineffective, but if you are to continue with a party political, representative democracy then it should be considered worthwhile for those who will enter party politics to have such an experience to develop their skills.
For those who feel that this would only be disruptive to the academic environment then they should compare Queens and UU in terms of academic performance. Is UU fairing better than Queens?
I’m not at all convinced that it would damage the academic environment as long as the university authorities ensured that a code of conduct be enforced on the political societies to ensure that people behaved themselves.
Universities are places of exploration and experimentation. This coupled with the fact that the vast majority of students are young and free from many responsibilities can allow for new ideas to get an airing and for people to really find their political feet, and God only knows Northern Ireland needs some new ideas and experienced young people to bring them into the mainstream.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 10:51 AMMy immediate gut reaction was that the designers of the leaflet should be sanctioned, but actually this kind of idiotic posturing can only harm their cause and hopefully hasten the day when we have some alternative to the usual mythologising of the past. I would suggest that each attendee at this talk should be given a free copy of Richard English’s excellent recent book on Irish Nationalism - it might possibly give them something to think about.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 10:52 AMDon’t forget to stifle free speech as well. And that nasty ‘intelligent design’ nonsense, get rid of that. Gag the neo-conservatives, and ban smoking, caffeine and candy while you’re at it. Oh, and don’t forget to reserve that nice little common area for the mosque. A wonderful little EU satellite.
Tsk, tsk.Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 10:58 AMCS-
“What you have to understand, David, is that most people up here (especially younger people) are sick to the back teeth of politics bollocks, and they don’t want to even have to deal with it at university.”
Are you suggesting that people should not be allowed to organise politically on account of the fact that “most people are sick to the back teeth” of it? Kind of anti-democratic, is it not?
I’m sure there are plenty of people who have no interest in sport, but does that mean sporting organisations at UU should also be banned?
People at university are adults. They can make free choices in life and have the right to vote. Yet they are being refused the right to associate with people who they share political opinions with lest it should insult someone. Are supporters of this protocol saying that students are so sensitive and unable to deal with the realities of real life that they should be protected from all things political? I can’t think of a worse insult.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 12:31 PMI still find it hard to believe that there are still people who believe imposing a ban solves all uncomfortable political problems, Banning Gerry Adams voice on TV and radio was a clear example of just why authoritarian bans should be left to the likes of the Chinese government and co.
If it is worth its salt, Uni is about more than just attaining a degree, it is also about aspects of life students may not yet have come into contact with. Political parties exist in the real world so there youth wings should be represented on the Uni campus, if the party in question has enough supporters to merit it. that is what democracy is all about, surely?
As I see it if youngsters at Uni cannot make the odd mistake without the whole house falling down, then who the hell can. Leave them alone, I am absolutely certain Ógra will have learnt a great deal from this event and they have no need of officialdom to make matters worse.
When political parties are banned or face sanction it is always for political reasons, and one should not forget that. The fluff and bluster is because the people who are doing the banning do not wish to be seen as small minded bigots.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 01:02 PMThe idea of a university which doesn’t allow political expression is a contradiction-in-terms.
Agree totally with that.
Those who think that students shouldn’t be talking politics or that they might get tainted by doing so are completely underestimating those students’ intelligence.
How many Prime Ministers and other major political leaders have been President of their student unions or debating societies?Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 01:30 PM‘For those who feel that this would only be disruptive to the academic environment then they should compare Queens and UU in terms of academic performance. Is UU fairing better than Queens? ‘
What percentage of UU graduates compared to Queen’s leave Northern Ireland after they’ve ‘qualify’ in political discourse or in whatever ?
Mick Hall,
‘When political parties are banned or face sanction it is always for political reasons’
True enough . Cuba being one example that springs to mind . Mind you I hear they produce good dentists so that their people can open their mouths and not say anything :)
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 01:32 PMas far as i was made aware, there was ameeting in Colraine to disscuss the protocol, ti was then cancelled at the last minute, i think SDLP youth have something about it,
http://www.sdlpyouth.com/news_view.php?id=172
All the partys had reached agreement at a meeting the week before, told about producing crap like OSF produced, simply they wouldnt do it, and then got the meeting called of because of it,
OSF just basically f**ked up! they had no call to go around doing something they knew would stop the meeting going ahead, so they have nobody to blame but themselves,
i wouldnt put it passed them looking to get it put off so they could protest a bit more, somethiong new to crty about, create a SHAM, well i suppose thats SF as a whole for ya!
young unionists, OSF, SDLP Youth and OFF had all agreed on principle to put forward a list of rules for the meeting last tuesday, SF broke the rules even before the meeting got under way, pathetic!
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 01:40 PMGod I hate Ogra Sinn Fein. As a Queen’s student, nobody gives a crap about the divide, but the 5% who do, boy do they want to tell us about it. Please go away, you and your five words of Irish and Mairead Farrell leaflets. Of course there is also a lot of parochialism which is harmless enough, especially among GAA-heads, but that’s their perogrative, my issue is with the ****-stirrers in Ogra Sinn Fein. Of course, they’re the ones who’ll end up running Northern Ireland, whoop-de-bloody-do.
I’m a nationalist, but i think that’s where part of my annoyance comes from, that these are the people who are supposed to represent us or something. I probably exaggerate a bit, but when you’re hanging around with people from “the other side” and you come across Mairead Farrell leaflets, you do want to bury your head in your hands.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 02:01 PMIn fairness, concerning the Farrel leaflets, I didn’t see them around campus, they were more evident in the Holyland and Botanic area surrounding Queen’s. Surprise surprise. Poor Mairead Farrell, she got shot by the same essential people she was trying to kill. Yeah, I am actually a nationalist, really, but a frustrated one.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 02:04 PMI do have a tendancy to exaggerate, so don’t think Queen’s is some tri-colour ridden IRA-fest, prospective Unionist students...it’s really not.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 02:08 PM“As a Queen’s student, nobody gives a crap about the divide, but the 5% who do, boy do they want to tell us about it.”
That was largely my experience too. Student politics is a joke. If they want to organise fine, but looking at Queen’s, they can’t be trusted not to vandalise the place with posters everywhere and they end up running the SU. None of the students want that.
“Are you suggesting that people should not be allowed to organise politically on account of the fact that “most people are sick to the back teeth” of it?”
YES! If most people don’t want it then it hardly seems fair for the wishes of a minority to be foisted upon them (see above). Yes they have the option to vote them out in the annual elections, but if they don’t want to have to waste time voting every year just to keep sectarian wankers out of office then their wishes should be respected.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 02:11 PMIt’s not just nationalists though! From May 2006:
“Motion 3
We, the Student Council, would like both the Union Speaker and the President of the Queen’s Students’ Union, Belfast to send a letter on behalf of the student body congratulating Her Majesty the Queen on her eightieth birthday. Long to reign over us. God Save The Queen.
Motion 4
We, the Student Council, in celebration of Her Majesty’s momentous birthday, demand that the members of Student Council mark the occasion by singing the National Anthem (words below):
Motion 5
We, the Student Council, would like both the Union Speaker and the President of Queen’s University Students’ Union, Belfast to send a letter on behalf of the student body, congratulating the Right Honourable Doctor Rev. Ian Paisley MP MLA on his eightieth birthday.”
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 02:17 PMI agree the the picture used on the flyer wasn’t the most appropriate but there was never any intention to cause hurt or pain to anyone.
However it shouldn’t take away from the real issue at heart which is the universities policy of discrimination against political parties. Universities should be a friendly home for political and cultural diversity and I believe that political activity should be promoted and encouraged.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 02:22 PMYes why would anyone be offended by IRA men. It’s just ****-stirring and the same old “we are most oppressed peoples in history of world and who cares about anyone else” attitude You’re even out of step with Sinn Fein. Twenty year olds glorifying the troubles. It’s ridiculous.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 02:27 PM‘Anyone know the unionist position?’
The Young Unionists at UU are and have for a signifigant period of time been opposed to the draconian regulations on political activity present at the university.
Some discussion did occur between the various political parties present on campus, this action by OSF has flown in the face of what everyone (apart from apparently OSF) was trying to achieve. OSF have damaged themselves and the case for the removal of the political protocol by engaging in blatantly unacceptable behaviour.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 02:29 PMYes and let’s examine where Francis Hughes has brought Republicanism, that would be interesting wouldn’t it. Probably the same answer as to where Ian Paisley has brought Unionism. The opposite place they’d basically intended to.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 02:30 PMUU gra SF Mmeber,
maybe it wasnt an attension to cause hurt and pain, but then ur admitting that the people who made the flyers have common sense, which this clearly proves they dont,
u think when making the flyer a few things would go through thier heads,
wlll this upset the univeristy, will this upset unionists? is this the best picture to use? does this break univeristy rules
noiw if they came to conculsion that this was a good flyer then they really are idiots!
and does nobody else find it strange they do this the day before a meeting to discuss changing the political protocol?
if this group is the future of SF then i dont think the SDLP have anything to fear
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 02:30 PM“wlll this upset the univeristy, will this upset unionists? is this the best picture to use? does this break univeristy rules”
I worry that’s exactly what they think!
Posted by on Mar 16, 2008 @ 02:32 PM
