Tuesday, March 25, 2008
“They’ll be seen going in and out of the house..”
I had asked previously, “Whatever happened to..” [community restorative justice]. Well, coincidentally, the first ten minutes of Radio 4’s Law in Action programme today dealt with “Justice Belfast style”. The audio [RealPlayer file] is accompanied by an online article specifically about the Belfast report. There’s no mention of funding in either report, nor of the “volunteers patrolling” west Belfast, but the case used as an example of the work they do is worth noting. With no statement being made to the police, about an attempted extortion of £10,000 by armed men describing themselves as being from “the republican movement”, the response of the Restorative Justice group took this form - Firstly Jim McCarthy, “one of the leading lights of CRJ”, assures the victim that “mainstream republicans” were not involved and, he tells the reporter,
“Different well-known people in the community will visit Margaret and Barry’s house today and tomorrow. They’ll be seen going in and out of the house. Just showing community support.”
Or, as the online report puts it
Margaret left CRJ’s Twinbrook office that morning feeling safer. Jim McCarthy had arranged for a number of well-known Republicans to drop in on her family at home. They hoped these public visits would scare away the extortionists.
Pete Baker @ 10:09 PM
“What Maureen O’Hara said to Ward Bond” - Get off your horse and drink your milk ? Or am I missing something…
On topic I remember at one of those “village hall” meetings Sinn Fein held re: policing Gerry A was asked if he would advise the questioner’s son to join the Police. Really can’t recall the answer - but a good question.
Posted by on Mar 26, 2008 @ 09:47 PMSteve, you can look at restorative justice systems in the rest of these two islands and you’ll probably find that they’re all controlled directly by state agencies. The roles played by our paramilitaries wouldn’t be acceptable.
Posted by on Mar 26, 2008 @ 10:09 PMyeah whatever.
Posted by on Mar 26, 2008 @ 10:50 PM-
Posted by on Mar 26, 2008 @ 11:01 PM
-
Posted by on Mar 26, 2008 @ 11:04 PM
Oh. Oh right.
I thought it started with a bunch of republicans replacing the brand new police force we’d paid millions for.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 12:30 AMElsewhere CRJ is usually about:-
~ complementing the conventional Criminal Justice system
~ working with young offenders to stop reoffending
~ dealing with the real problems in communities
~ breaking down the fear of crime by letting victims see that their burglar was a 15 year old from a broken home, who has acne and a drug habit and isnt a 7ft tall axe murderer
~ respecting the rights of all those involved
~ persuading young offenders there is an alternative lifeIn norn iron sadly a lot of it is about:-
~ offering an alternative to the conventional Criminal Justice System
~ working over rather than working with young offenders (until it became unfashionable after a few died / suffered horrendous injuries)
~ dealing with the real problems of paramilitaries like offenders who arent carrying out ‘approved’ crimes or who are invading ‘approved’ turfs
~ enforcing control by dealing with ‘anti-social’ behaviour. This can range from real anti-social behaviour to doing things that arent ‘acceptable to the community’ (ie not doing what they are told by the paramilitaries)
~ respecting the rights of the paramilitaries to protect their position and dominate their communities
~ persuading young offenders there’s no alternativeThis seems to vary from area to area and perhaps its improving but why are Government pouring money into it?
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 08:18 AMNevin
What happens in the rest of the 2 islands really has no bearing on what happens in nIreland
For one side of the community compromising nearly half the population has virtually no positive interaction with any government agency.
Unless you consider parades forced into areas they are not wanted by dint of military force as a positive interaction
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 12:53 PM“What happens in the rest of the 2 islands really has no bearing on what happens in nIreland”
You cannot be serious, Steve :)
The threat to the major centres of power - London and Dublin - led to the nimby approach and its associated appeasement of loyalist and republican paramilitary godfathers. It didn’t really matter that much to the two Governments that the needs of the victims and the SDLP-UUP spectrum would be swept aside.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 03:50 PMNevin
Whats that got to do with CRJ,thats the topic we were discussing not the over all political settlement vis a vis nIreland
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 04:18 PM“Whats that got to do with CRJ”
Steve, the toleration of paramilitary led restorative justice programs was part of the appeasement process.
I wonder how many parties at Stormont or in local councils are prepared to confront the two Governments publicly on this scandal because it’s nothing short of a scandal.
You might remember the quote I lifted the other day from an SDLP document which indicated that these side deals were a necessary part of the peace process [my summary].
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 05:42 PMSteve says “For one side of the community compromising nearly half the population has virtually no positive interaction with any government agency.”
NHS? Education system? Welfare system? Minor details like that don’t count then.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 06:23 PM“no positive interaction”
Steve, that’s a bit like saying that Nationalists walked out of the house and Unionists shut and barred the door.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 06:43 PMonly if you consider them positive garibaldy
Nevin nationalists were locked in the closset and occasionally thrown a crust
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 08:10 PMSteve, you may have missed the account of Nationalist councils ‘affiliating’ to the Dail and commissioners being sent in.
Cardinal Brady has associated himself with the phrase, ‘a society within a society’ and that’s a form of self-imposed apartheid.
The Unionist and Nationalist families have each been plagued by an ourselves alone mindset.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 09:03 PMNevin
Next you will be telling me Gerymandering was the nationalists idea!
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 09:29 PMYes Steve, we can see the widespread rejection of free healthcare, education and a welfare state by nationalists. Oh wait, we can’t. Because everyone acknowledges them as positives. There’s being contrary, wilfully blind, and then plain silly.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 09:32 PMYes there is Garibaldy sort of like classing NHS and RUC as the same thing.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 09:38 PMGovernment agencies was the phrase used. If you meant the security forces you should have said so. Then we could have a serious conversation about acceptance rates of the RUC and subsequently the PSNI for ordinary crime etc.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 09:41 PMAh I see you are one of those that will try to claim a victory in the debate because I didn’t define my terms of reference narrowly enough for you
Congratulations I am put in my place.
next time I will have the firms lawyer go through my post to ensure the terms are narrow enough so that the point is unexpandable
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 10:35 PMI dealt with that one the other day, Steve. Just do a little search with gerrymander/gerrymandering ...
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 11:49 PMSteve,
It was about reacting to hyperbole. And keeping a perspective on what things have been like here, and how they compare to elsewhere.
Posted by on Mar 28, 2008 @ 12:25 AMGaribaldy
or it was about reacting with pedantry
Nevin why would I research your opinion on gerrymanderig? if you wish to defend it put it up on the screen son. But I am guessing your defense is more along the lines of denial of gerrymandering
Posted by on Mar 28, 2008 @ 03:25 AM
