Tuesday, May 13, 2008
“These are exceptional times”
On 10 May éirígí held its second Ard Fheis. In a mere two years it has grown greatly beyond the original six members based in Dublin.
For those interested in following developments, you can read and view the new rúnaí ginearálta Rab Jackson’s address to the Ard Fheis here.
Tommy McKearney’s and Brian Lesson’s orations at the Connolly commemoration are also available.
Mark McGregor @ 09:53 AM
Rory,
I don’t see that elitism anywhere, or that division, in fact I saw the opposite in Rab Jackson’s comment that seems the opposite of everything you have contributed:
And, regardless of the assaults, the abuse or the slander we must challenge the problem at its source. We must not, and this is really important, we must not be distracted into battles with other republicans. We know well who the enemy of the Irish nation is and we must focus all our energies there.
But sure if you want to show an actual example of right wing activity or division over claiming it when you disagree feel free. Until then it is just you applying extreme labels with no substantiation to people you disagree with. The abuse and slander he dismisses.
Posted by on May 13, 2008 @ 11:09 PMGari,
You haven’t given up on anti-imperialism now? Would have thunk it ;0)
Here’s me thinking socialism and true republicanism were the same thing.
Posted by on May 13, 2008 @ 11:14 PMGari,
You haven’t given up on anti-imperialism now? Who’d have thunk it ;0)
Here’s me thinking socialism and true republicanism were the same thing.
Posted by on May 13, 2008 @ 11:14 PM“Here’s me thinking socialism and true republicanism were the same thing.”
The confusion probably arises because both corpses share the same grave.
If you ever watch programs on UK TV such as Property Ladder, you’ll have noticed that they usually advise the aspiring developer to (a) avoid personalising the property so that you don’t limit its appeal to buyers who share your taste, and (b) identify the market for your property and target your development to that market. It’s basic common sense, of course, but many amateur developers fall foul of those simple rules. And so it is with Éirígí: they have a fantastic property that should appeal to all buyers, but they have blown its mass market appeal by personalising its decor with chic 1960s decor. No one buys the socialist guff these days, so your market for unity is now confined to those who lacked the ability to prosper from a record period of economic prosperity.
Posted by on May 13, 2008 @ 11:44 PMCertainly not Mark. True anti-imperialism is also internationalist!
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 12:06 AMDave,
“If you ever watch programs on UK TV such as Property Ladder”
You lost me at this point. I’m sure it was a good point and fully understood by any landlords reading but I can’t see any of the éirígí supporters or other socialists you seem to be advising getting, trying to get or caring about how exploitation of property relates to their socialist project. (especially now this has been shown to be a false feast)
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 12:35 AMGo to sleep please. You are keeping my children awake. I am a socialist but we lost not only the battle but the war some time ago. If you want to form some new movement that will interest people then you need to be a bit more inventive. The 32 county republic will come but not on our terms. Globalisation will see to that.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 12:43 AMWell, Mark, I’m an architect, so programs about property are usually interesting to me. Property Ladder, presented by the perennially pregnant Sarah Beeny, focuses more on the human interest angle of the amateur first-time developer as he or she tries to get on the first rung of the property ladder by adding value to a mortgaged property and then selling it to release the added equity with the purpose of reinvesting it in the next step up the ladder, and so on. It’s actually a program that socialists should be interested in because it shows how you can make a lot of money with a small amount of capital, providing you are prepared to work hard. I can, however, excuse socialists from watching Grand Designs because that program is about innovative design that is quite expensive to build, and intended for use as a luxury residence.
Anyway, my point was that adding a socialist agenda on equal terms with a united Ireland agenda will limit the appeal of éirígí to those who are both socialist and republican. Yes, there is a “Duh!” moment in that as you point out that is the specific purpose of éirígí, but the reality is that éirígí would make greater progress if it separated the two. There is a market in the Republic for a party that isn’t afraid to promote its nationalism, but that market is predominantly and progressively right of centre and most definitely not in awe of James Connolly. In Northern Ireland, éirígí also has the downside that its Irish nationalism will limit its appeal to (oddly enough) Irish nationalists, excluding those who are socialists and British nationalists. So, it’s a losing formula.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 02:28 AMSo let me get this right, Irish republicans, if that is there wish, should not set up a party with an Irish name, say éirígí, as it may offend northern Protestants, but it is OK for the same unionist protestants to have the word UNIONIST in all of their party names.
Let me understand this correctly, republicans at all costs must hide their politics under a blanket, but Unionists have a god given right to flaunt their political belifes.
What is next, a new law to ban the flying of the Irish flag, and you say you want a liberal democracy?
John,
Myself I have little confidence that globalization will last, once China and India move beyond being the West’s sweat shops, do you feel the dying empire that is the USA will not attempt to introduce sanctions or possibly worse, better go back and take a look at the origins of WW1.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 06:48 AMbut it is OK for the same unionist protestants to have the word UNIONIST in all of their party names.
Mick,
Can I get this straight. You’re using the unionists as a reference point ?
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 06:59 AM“You don’t seem to have anything to say about the policeman seriously injured in Spamount village”.
Posted by PeaceandJustice
peace and justice
The reason I have not mentioned violence in regarding to éirígí is because that organization has made its position on this subject clear. [see there web site]
As to the police officer who you write was seriously injured in some village, I know nothing about it as I have been in the eastern Mediterranean for the last three weeks and I find it is best to stick to that which you understand when posting.
best regards
Comrade stalin
Sorry but you have lost me with your last comment.
Greenflag
Whilst not a supporter of Mao or Stalin, poverty and starvation was knocking at China’s door well before Mao came along, of course a revolution is the least best option; and all leftists should keep that in mind, sadly far to many lack the imagination to understand what an actual revolution entails. However there are times when sadly due to differing reasons revolution is the only option if people wish to get out from under the yoke of oppression. France in the 19th century, Russia in Feb 1917, October is more questionable, Cuba 1950s, Iran in 1979.
Of course revolutions are tricky things to control, hence my reluctance to rush down that road if a viable alternative is available.
best
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 08:19 AMsorry, I missed out the English revolution which Cromwell led on my list of essential revolutions.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 08:21 AMTwo recent examples of crude divisive actions by éirígí in the recent past:
1. The protests on the occasion of the visit to the Church of Ireland cathedral in Armagh by the head of that church to perform a traditional Anglican ceremony recalling the example of Christ’s charity.
What section of the community was that intended to impress?
2. The provocovative and unwarranted flying of flags in Magherafelt which demonstrated only that there were yet some who called themselves republican who could be just as pig-headedly coat trailing as any Orange yahoo.
Stupid. Self indulgent. Offensive. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 09:28 AMI have only briefly looked at this thread as I really do have more important things to do with my life. Really. And no, that is not intended as an insult to those who do post here on a regular.
What is interesting however is the fact that an organisation, recently established, that has been very careful not to be offensive towards others, finds itself accused here of being offensive and provocative.
If asserting that the solution to the problems of Ireland, and indeed the world, are to be found through resisting capitalism, imperialism and the new GFA order, are seen as provocative then so be it. In that case I’m all for provocation. Anyone ever heard of conflict theory??
As to the flying of flags and whether or not this is provocative - I don’t think any Irish Republican needs to apologise to anyone for erecting the national flag, and yes, the éírígí flag, to commemorate the dead of 1916. To dismiss this as mere self-promotion is peurile. To equate it with the flying of ‘orange’ flags is even worse, and an indication of how some (yes, a majority in fact) believe that to resist occupation and promote justice is the very same as its exact opposite. How intellectually confused is that? That, my friend(s), is your problem, unfortunately for you.
If it is the case that some people genuinely believe that what éírígí is about is futile (in that the conditions don’t exist for builiding a revolutionary socialist republican movement), they are entitled to that belief. éirígí is entitled to believe otherwise.
I think the real problem here is that there are those who fear an alternative to the status quo. There are those who believe we have reached the ‘end of history’ in Ireland and beyond. I personally concur with Mick Hall’s view as to the future demise of the neo-liberal order.
I suppose time will tell who is correct.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 10:53 AMMH
Cuba out from under the yoke of oppression? Take your designer (murdering, socialist bastard) che t-shirt off, and stop looking for US black helicopters. History has shown that by the misery it causes, socialism is a rabid dog, killing those who associate with it. Grow up and realize that Ireland will be united, but you socialist will be fighting the gypsies for camp sites.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 11:27 AMMick,
‘poverty and starvation was knocking at China’s door well before Mao came along,’
Of course but it took Mao’s regime to ‘supervise’ the mother of all Chinese famines in the late 1960’s in which 30 million were ‘allowed’ to die . The ‘party of international socialism’ decided that the offer of American food aid would be too ‘injurious’ to Chinese Communist Party’s pride . Shades of Myanmar in 2008 . Oddly enough it was ‘global capitalism’ via agricultural research scientists (German ) who developed new strains of ‘rice’ in the ‘green revolution’ which subsequently allowed China to break free from the Malthusian population constraint which it had reached in 1969.
‘However there are times when sadly due to differing reasons --France in the 19th century, Russia in Feb 1917, October is more questionable, Cuba 1950s, Iran in 1979.’
Due to ‘differing reasons’ ? Now that covers a multitude . In essence those ‘differing reasons’ can be summarised generally as the ‘haves’ being afraid of the ‘have nots’ . Whether the commodity under dispute between the various factions within any society is political power , economic status , individual freedom , property rights , or freedom to practice one’s religion, it almost does’nt matter . A new order beckons and the ‘conservatives’ try to hold on to the past while the ‘revolutionaries’ reach for a more hopeful though unknown future . How any revolution actually works out in practice for the whole of any society (apart of course from those at the top of any new order) is dependent on how realistic and practicable any new order is in addressing the fundamental issues within any society at that particular time in history.
This is the basic ‘problem’ which eirigi and others like them have to face . Their ‘remedy’ is not seen as ‘believable ‘ not by a large majority anyway.The ‘oppression’ which you refer to has to reach a point whereby a majority begin to believe that the present order not only cannot deliver a stable economic /political future but shows no sign of being able to adapt to do what is necessary. The situation in Northern Ireland today is that the vast majority while perhaps not overjoyed by the political settlement that has been arrived at -nevertheless believe that it is the only practicable option at this stage for some kind of normal future .
England /Britain in the early decades of the 19th century came very close to ‘revolution’. The growing industrial proletariat had been ‘ignored’ as Britain charged forward towards world empire (globalisation Mark 2) (the Romans being the Mark 1 version). Who now recalls the Chartrists and the various social reformers who emerged out of industrial revolution England ?
Britain unlike France or Russia avoided bloody revolution through political ‘reform ‘ . Also the new ‘ruling ‘ elite in Britain had seen what happened in France when the peasants (or more correctly) the emerging non aristocratic nouveau bourgeoisie had finally had enough of degenerate aristocratic rule .
France of course had another ‘revolution’ of sorts in 1968 . A bloodless one but yet one in retrospect which probably saved France from a civil war based on class and a possible French Communist Party take over?
BH,
‘I personally concur with Mick Hall’s view as to the future demise of the neo-liberal order.
The neo liberal order has not run out of flexibility . It can still adapt to a fast changing world economy and the emerging changes in the world power pecking order . Assuming of course that the USA and other western powers can get past the present property bust /credit crunch fiasco and the current energy price hike . It appears to me that the USA is moving to what has been called a new ‘paradigm’. An Obama/Clinton or Clinton /Obama administration will have to address many of the social and economic issues now being faced by those Americans who have been left high and dry by both the excesses of the neo liberals and ‘globalisation’.
‘I think the real problem here is that there are those who fear an alternative to the status quo.’
That’s just human nature . Unionists feared the ‘alternative’ to the status quo in 1918. The upcoming Lisbon treaty referendum will show that the Irish people are IMO also going to ‘vote’ for the ‘status quo’ even though many will not fully ‘understand’ the detail.
Change for the sake of change sounds like a good option for people contemplating a summer holiday or redecorating a house . For people contemplating a whole restructuring of the social/economic/political order there had better be something tangible and credible to offer the voter . Voters today unlike those in 1918 or in 1969 are better educated and a majority are unlikely to be persuaded by those waving flags or offering political programs based on a world order which ‘died’ almost 100 years ago.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 12:54 PMso all the whingers on this site see no fault whatsoever with the status quo in ireland? - no need for change, no need for new ideas, even the republicans in your midst?
Unionists in power have, no doubt, a lot to lose by the establishment of a socialist republic or even for that matter a general shift in a leftward direction, yet i dont and never will understand why working class protestants cling to a monarchical, and exploitative system as though it were the holy grail of their being - unless they benefit directly from it.
Granted, a settler colonial mentality persists, Granted, i wouldnt want to be part of a right wing, brown envelope brigade free state - but thats not what republicanism proposes.
There have been several aborted attempts at republican revolution in Ireland in two centuries and all have ultimately failed, but what persists and echoes through the ages is the idea of a free and democratic country controlled by its citizens. That idea has been extremely strong (1918 elections for example) and extremely weak (1930s, 1950,s 1960’s? today?) but the idea has remained and is alive today. Éirígí are closer to that idea than any other group i know of. they are new, they are fresh and they are picking the rights campaigns and the right tactics.
fair play to yous. keep it up. there are plenty watching and learning
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 01:46 PMVoters today unlike those in 1918 or in 1969 are better educated and a majority are unlikely to be persuaded by those waving flags or offering political programs based on a world order which ‘died’ almost 100 years ago.
Posted by Greenflag
Anyone who had experience of the UK during the Falklands war or the US when GW Bush invaded Iraq will know just how attractive flag waving appears to be for many people. I do not believe education has much to do with how people decide to vote. Indeed the recent history of the world is basically that of well educated people shitting on those who have been less well educated. Only occasionally do the less well educated behave in such a barbaric manner.
Bush and Blair took their countries to war on a lie that come the elections, the populations of both countries were conscious of, yet a majority reelected them to office. Mainly due to flag waving and saber rattling I might add.
I agree that it is extremely unlikely that a revolution will break out in western Europe in the foreseeable future, but times change and when they do they change extremely quickly.
You mentioned the reforms that averted revolution in the 19th and 20th century, what I find interesting is the rush by sections of Capital to row back these reforms, if I was a revolutionary I would step back and say be my guest, for without reasonable reforms, the masses have only revolution to attempt to attain a decent life.
I believe the neo cons are about the most short sighted people since the Russian and French aristocracy walked the earth, it is this above all else that makes them very dangerous to the future of human kind. They believe wealth and might is always right and such a theory has been historically littered with disasters. For these fools act as if the nightmare 20th century did not exist and the post WW2 reforms never occurred. Even Bismarck understood the necessity of reform if you wish to avoid revolution and chaos.
BfB,
When you are in long trousers and have learnt some manners, get back to me and we might have an interesting debate.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 02:02 PMGreenflag,
You do realise that around 90% of voters in the north consistently vote for people who wave flags for an order that died out nearly 3 centuries ago?
And workers continue to be exploited by their employers. That is the base of the capitalist system of production. So whatever changes have happened in the economy at a structual level, there are still conflicting class interests within societies. We are indeed currently in a reactionary age. But we cannot say that it will always be so.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 02:17 PMso all the whingers on this site see no fault whatsoever with the status quo in ireland? - no need for change, no need for new ideas, even the republicans in your midst?
Hello. I am wondering if you could point me to the new ideas, because fuck me if all I see isn’t the same stuff trotted out faithfully for the past 100 years.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 02:36 PMI noticed eirigi flags have replaced the tricolors flying in Fisherwick in Ballymena while driving past today.
Amusingly enough, somebody in the pub explained them to me as “some Polish thing”, though there seems to be a growing affiliation between Poles and Republicans in some parts of the town which may explain the confusion.
The Dunclug estate has C.I.R.A. graffiti flanked by “Welcome to Dunclug”, “Failte..” and “Witamy na Dunclug” which I found quite interesting. Obviously there’s a Catholic link, but I was surprised any outsider would choose to get involved in the dog-end of our little dispute.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 03:01 PMMick Hall,
“If this new republican group is such a waste of time why do so many sluggerites who come from the unionist tradition bother to comment,”
There hasn’t been a really good row for a while and everyone is jonzing for something to kick off, preferably with juice?
Even worse for the sluggerettes to explain to their worse halves.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:06 PMdo the right thing,
So what you are saying is Step One Collect Underpants Step Three Profit?
Your ideas are intriguing and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
I propose Dustin the Turkey as Supreme Overlord of the Jumbo Roll Island and Van Morrison as Minister for Keeping it Real.
And why not? It’s as plausible as your conclusion.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:27 PM“What is interesting however is the fact that an organisation, recently established, that has been very careful not to be offensive towards others, finds itself accused here of being offensive and provocative.
As I pointed out in my post which immediately preceded yours, BH, it is not a matter of éirígí being accused of being offensive it is a matter of them being observed to be blatantly offensive and then, by using the words of long dead iconological figures, to attempt to justify such offence as “true republican socialism”.
“We are inspired by Connolly” they would argue much as other self-deluded nuisances claim they are inspired by God or Allah or Christ or (risking Godwin), Hitler.
Whomsoever they may claim to be inspired by they most certainly do not inspire me - other than to utter the ejaculation “Jesus wept!” as, shaking my old grey head, I pour myself a large one.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:35 PMThe Fermanagh Beagle Fanciers Club held it’s AGM in Pettigo last night.
They are legitimate targets to the last man.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 06:28 PM
