Monday, July 30, 2007
“There is no worth in a half-truth process” - redux
As Fintan O’Toole recently argued “In the Irish experience, both nationalists and unionists have been all too adept at constructing versions of the past in which they feature only as victims, never as victimisers.” And, as noted in previous posts, for the Eames/Bradley committee to “take the bull by the horns” - which they should - it will require “a belief that truth is a value in itself”. So when a political party’s leader announces a “March for Truth” it’s worthwhile looking at what the self-declared objectives are.. and whose actions are not included
The objective of the march is to draw attention to the major issue of collusion and British state violence, and the administrative and institutional cover-up by the British government and its state agencies, of a policy which resulted in many thousands of victims who were killed or injured or bereaved.
Pete Baker @ 09:44 PM
Pete - Mun - it’s difficult to follow your point, especially when u direct people to so many links. I get confused and give up.
Posted by on Jul 30, 2007 @ 10:09 PMEveryone’s a critic..
Posted by on Jul 30, 2007 @ 10:25 PM“a political party’s leader announces a “March for Truth”
So he isn’t and never has been a member of the IRA!!!
Posted by on Jul 30, 2007 @ 10:25 PMas horrible as the loyalist and british coullsion was, will SF ever hold the a march to expose the coullsion between the IRA and the “forces of occupation”?
its a very argueable point that many more catholic and nationalists were murdered by IRA informers than by thoses loyalist informers.
is there no word yet on when we will look into the needless deaths of many young IRA men lead into British ambushes by high ranking IRA leaders?
granted it doesnt fit the romantic view SF want to paint of the PIRA
Posted by on Jul 30, 2007 @ 11:31 PMWait, what? The IRA colluded with the security forces to kill its own members? I don’t follow.
Posted by on Jul 30, 2007 @ 11:42 PM“coullsion”...probably the best lager in the world…
Posted by on Jul 31, 2007 @ 01:42 AMWho did Mad Dog Paisley lose in the Troubles? Paisley, Adams, McGuinness etc have no moral integrity.
Here is a simple what if: Would Adams etc gladly die and bring their families with htem if it meant a United Ireland? What price are they personally prepared to pay? Going on a few token marches with his electorate is not exactly of the same calibre of The Fenian Dead.
At this stage, as the British Army go back to “as you were”, the whole Adams/Paisley inspired Troubles seems a load of blood soaked bollocks.Posted by on Jul 31, 2007 @ 03:37 AMCollusion? Whats the word for republicans spying on their neighbours to set them up to be murdered?
With the IRA, conspiracy to murder was not the exception, it was the rule.
Posted by on Jul 31, 2007 @ 08:19 AMBen,
Welcome to the real world, and also dont for get about the informers that the PIRA were riddled with who lead their own men into ambushes, as wel as memebers of the Protestent community
Posted by on Jul 31, 2007 @ 11:13 AMOK i can take the criticism of Adams given his “I was never in the IRA stance” - however it is ridiculous to compare the actions of state parties to non-state parties.
Is O’Toole saying there were loads of people killed by the IRA that we don’t know about?
Presumably not.
My understanding from the “collusion must come out “punters is that, effectively, loads ofpeople were killed by the security forces but we really don’t know about it - “we” think they were killed by loyalist paramilitaries.Also, IMHO the word collusion is simply not appropriate for, say Special branch Touts telling their special branch handlers about upcoming operations. How exactly is that collusion between PIRA and the security forces?
Posted by on Jul 31, 2007 @ 12:32 PMThere were plenty of people (millions perhaps) who really were just victims; they suffered to various degrees and could not do anything about it. Please remember this before pretending that nobody has any right to feel aggrieved.
Even after accounting for the arguments over how some people responded to the problems, there are huge numbers of people whose innocent suffering cannot be denied.
I may have just stated the obvious, but sometimes it seems necessary.
Posted by on Jul 31, 2007 @ 01:06 PMHowever, O’Toole is correct when he says......
‘’In the Irish experience, both nationalists and unionists have been all too adept at constructing versions of the past in which they feature only as victims, never as victimisers.’’No one is willing to shoulder the blame of the troubles and killings they caused, but all to willing to point the finger!
Posted by on Jul 31, 2007 @ 01:16 PMsinn fein, as an organisation and through individual members, colluded with and actively supported, the IRA in the murder, kidnap, torture of men, women and children
Lets get that truth out first.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2007 @ 01:07 PMThe sad fact of the matter remains that there is nothing that happens in N.Ireland, that is not seen through a jaundiced eye;
everyone, who cares to voice an opinion is laden down with the heavy baggage of both the troubles and inbred sectarianism.N.Ireland is accordingly a society bereft of truth; independent minds and freedom of thought.
And whether we like it or not, we all belong in the gutter together and we have all played our part in contributing towards what is a highly dysfunctional society.
Paisley has led his people into government with their sworn enemy; whilst the IRA fought a dirty squalid war, so that they could enter into a government, whose very existence constitutes de facto recognition of partition.
The real history of the last forty years will never be written, because the very successful
policy of divide and rule, employed by all sides, will ensure that there is nobody knowledgeable enough, or objective enough to write it.All sides are responsible for colluding in stamping out freedom and truth. The ordinary people are the victims.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2007 @ 09:45 AM
