Monday, August 21, 2006
The Queen ousted from Ravenhill…
WHEN the Irish rugby team takes on Italy at Ravenhill next August, there will be no rendition of God Save The Queen, with the IRFU insisting on the neutral Ireland’s Call instead. The Union flag will be replaced with the IRFU flag as well. There’s been no complaint from the Ulster branch, but then rugby fans have always been an enlightened bunch(!)
Belfast Gonzo @ 01:52 PM
Well it would be nice to believe the same action would be taken with respect to the Irish tricolour and Soldiers’ Song in Dublin. Nice, but probably naive.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 03:45 PMA sad climbdown by the IRFU and another sign for unionists as to what would happen to their identity if there was ever a “united Ireland”.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 03:53 PMIt does leave an anomalous situation. Technically speaking Ireland is not a country when playing in Belfast, but it is when playing in Dublin.
It seems the courtesy routinely payed by ‘unionist’ players and supporters to the playing of Amhrain na bhFiann and echoed by Peadar Kearney’s decidedly militaristic 1907 lyrics is not to be reciprocated.
Clearly if it’s not going to be objected to by Ulster, then it is not a live issue. But there are some distinctly ‘shared future’ issues here. Not least the ‘cultural cleansing’ of British symbols north of the border.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 03:54 PMMick
Why is Ireland not a country when playing in Belfast? Surely the Republic of Ireland is a country, no matter where.Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 03:59 PMIt’s a rugby thing, Miss Fitz. ;o)
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 04:02 PMActually Pete, I had decided after yesterday in Croke Park I was going to take up watching Cricket. Then I heard the news this morning, and I think thats not such a good idea.
Maybe I’ll take up supporting Rugby. There is at least one enormous benefit to it from a female point of view, even though the rules are way beyond me.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 04:05 PMThe cricket story is worth keeping an eye on, Miss Fitz, the captain of the Pakistan team is facing charges, brought by the International Cricket Council, of bringing the game into disrepute. A diplomatic incident could be brewing…
Luckily, the umpire at the centre of it all is an Aussie..
[/ off topic]
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 04:10 PMNot least the ‘cultural cleansing’ of British symbols north of the border.
Mick
That’s a bit of a stretch, isn’t it? And where does that leave Irish symbols ‘north of the border’, which are yet to be even officially recognised and afforded any legitimacy?
The ‘Shared Future’ issues extend well beyond this matter. Indeed, if this leads to a wider debate and discussion on the matter, then it will have been a positive development.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 04:19 PMOk, let me get this straight. Your questioning why ‘God Save The Queen’, which is by the way the ENGLISH national anthem, should not be played when IRELAND (North and South) are playing Rugby….
NB. Northern Ireland does not have an official ‘national anthem’, nor indeed an official ‘national flag’ outside of course of the Union Flag which represents all of the UK
Maybe they should play the GSTQ and AnB in proportion to the Ulster/Rest of Ireland representation on the team… ahem… ;-)
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 04:24 PMAbysmal behaviour from the IRFU.
Seemingly for the last 50 years its been fine and dandy for fans and players from Northern Ireland of a unionist background to put up with the Republic of Ireland’s national anthem and flag at Ireland matches, since in “theory” the flag and anthem of whatever state the home match was being played in were used - but when one single match is being played in Belfast, suddenly playing the anethm and flying the flag of the host state is a big no-no.
When Ireland’s Call was adopted in the 1990s, the convention was modified so that the host state’s anthem would be played along with it at home games. Of course when it comes to putting this into practice in NI, suddenly it’s not acceptable. Sheer bloody hypocrisy and an indication of the contempt the IRFU has for (the great majority of) its support base in NI.
Thing is, for years my preference has been for some sort of all-Ireland flag and anthem for the Ireland rugby team rather than association with one state on the island only. And I certainly don’t have a burning desire to hear GSTQ - I’ve been arguing for years for its replacement at NI matches. But this just smacks of a massive double standard, a “what’s sauce for the goose isn’t sauce for the gander” attitude from the IRFU.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 04:28 PMJames “which is by the way the ENGLISH national anthem”.
WRONG; England does not have a national anthem. In some sports it uses GSTQ, in others it uses “Land Of Hope And Glory” and it others “Jerusalem”. GSTQ is the U.K.‘s national anthem and since N.I. does not have its own anthem, then by default GSTQ is the anthem.
Chris : “And where does that leave Irish symbols ‘north of the border’, which are yet to be even officially recognised and afforded any legitimacy?”
Irish symbols (the flag and anthem) are used when the team plays in this country. As this match is being played in N.I., the U.K.‘s symbols should be used.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 04:31 PMYet again it has to be pointed out that “Northern Ireland” doesn’t have an official anthem or official flag.
And you can’t bet that this one particular discussion that either government and the political parties do not want to start.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 04:33 PMActually, the Union Flag is the official flag of Northern Ireland.
What the IRFU has done in a deliberate snub is - “It’s OK for you lot to come down here and listen to our national anthem, we’ve justified this for decades by claiming, safe in the knowledge that it was never going to happen, that we’d fly your flag and play your anthem up there, but it’s certainly not OK for us to actually to go up there and receive exactly the same treatment. So I’ll tell you what we’re going to do - we’re going to continue to play our anthem and fly our flag in this jurisdiction, but we’ll prevent the same from happening in your jurisdication”...?
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 04:39 PM“NB. Northern Ireland does not have an official ‘national anthem’, nor indeed an official ‘national flag’ outside of course of the Union Flag which represents all of the UK
Posted by James on Aug 21, 2006 @ 06:24 PM”
Silly me, I thought that the union(jack)flag was the official flag of Northern Ireland?maybe we should have a debate on that little gem as this would with a little luck clear up any confusion on the matter.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 05:07 PMOne thing I would say is that this may, just possibly, be the thin end of a wedge which will see the IRFU adopt just Ireland’s Call & the IRFU flag from now on in Dublin as well - if not it is indeed a distinctly cowardly decision, and an opportunity wasted
all that said, Irish rugby being Irish rugby, everyone will just suck it up and get on with it regardless..
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 05:09 PMMike’s points seem fair enough - it looks like a double standard on the IRFU’s part.
I mean, what would happen if the Ulster branch did an Antrim GAA and told Dublin to feck off?!
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 05:30 PM“One thing I would say is that this may, just possibly, be the thin end of a wedge which will see the IRFU adopt just Ireland’s Call & the IRFU flag from now on in Dublin as well”
That has to be the ultimate outcome.
I’ve no issues with GSTQ not being played at Ravenhill, but I think this decision by the IRFU now requires them to forego the playing of The Soldiers Song at internationals held in the Republic Of Ireland.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 05:34 PMIf these measures are not introduced in Dublin for Irish Rugby matches, then I will no longer be attending.
This is indeed double standards and another step toward the cultural cleansing of all things Unionist in Northern Ireland.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 05:36 PMHope this clears things up on the flags front….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_ireland
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 05:40 PMThe news noe seems to be official : http://www.breakingnews.ie/2006/08/21/story273217.html
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 05:49 PMThe key line from that report, Keith
A spokesman for the IRFU said: “The policy of the IRFU is that when we have games outside the territory of the Irish Republic then we play Ireland’s Call. That policy has been supported by the Ulster branch of the IRFU.”
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 05:54 PMmaybe we’ll just go the whole hog and stop calling the country Ireland and that’ll sort out the old rugger difficulty as well-What about West Britain anyone?
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 05:57 PMSensible call by the IRFU . If Unionists don’t want to play rugby for Ireland -fine .We can do just as well without them and probably even better . Economically , politically and even sportswise .
Instead of cheering for Ireland at Croke Park Unionist rubgy supporters can then cheer for the English team .
The IRFU should reconsider this Ireland Call nonsense dity and reinstitute the Soldiers Song as the official anthem and be done with it . If Unionists don’t like it then Unionist rugby players can seek some kind of exemption from the Union and be allowed to play for the British team of choice i.e England, Scotland or Wales ? I’m sure they’ll be welcomed .
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 06:26 PMGreenflag : “We can do just as well without them and probably even better.”
So once again the solution sees to be a separate Northern Ireland team, because “Irish” has one idenity only.
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 06:29 PMThe IRFU have made the decision, as is their right, to play ‘Irelands call’ at the game.
Would unionists have critisized the decision if they had chosen to play the english anthem?
Posted by on Aug 21, 2006 @ 06:54 PM
