Thursday, February 22, 2007
“The IRA hasn’t gone away, and the UDA is exactly the same.”
One of the more interesting aspects of the list of candidates in the forthcoming election is the absence of anyone officially endorsed by the UPRG.. or the ‘good’ UDA. It may be that despite the recent PR work, and the granting of political capital and the previous official imprimatur of both governments, events on the ground have not progressed sufficiently to allow that appearance.. but regardless of how well, or not, PUP candidates perform this time, the indications, together with some of the statements made, are that we should expect such candidates to emerge in the future... regardless of what sort of society it will signal we’ve been left with..
From the Belfast Telegraph report
Amid calls for the UDA to be legalised, the organisation vowed to wage a political battle to replace decades of armed conflict.
In the document an unnamed member of the Inner Council says: “We fought the IRA when they tried to destroy this country, tried to take away our identity, and we will still fight them.
“But it will be in a different way, not on the battlefield but through the force of our arguments.”
David Nicholl, the Ulster Political Research Group spokesman in the North West, said a new path to peace was being forged by the UDA, whose ceasefire has lasted for 12 years.
“It is now a political process that the UDA are engaged in, and they are in favour of powersharing and integrated education and they are prepared to contemplate recognition of Sinn Fein ministers when they are in office.
“The UDA is giving a lead saying they want bread and butter issues tackled, and they want to create an environment in which there is no longer a need for paramilitarism.”
However he ruled out disbandment saying: “The IRA hasn’t gone away, and the UDA is exactly the same.”
Pete Baker @ 10:42 PM
I wonder if we would have had a thread on this story at all only for the excuse to use the headline.
Posted by on Feb 22, 2007 @ 11:38 PMHenry
Catch yourself on. It’s not as if it’s an issue that I haven’t covered in the past - see links above.
Posted by on Feb 22, 2007 @ 11:43 PMThe launch of the booklet/pamphlet at the Guidhall on Wednesday night was yet another step on the path of CTI (Conflict Transformation initiative) that the UDA has been engaged in this past 18 months or so. It is an evolution not a revolution and is being conducted openly through consultations within the organisation.
I salute the efforts that the leadership have taken to introduce radical thinking and risk taking for peace and reconciliation. I urge those with influence to continue along this path.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 08:22 AMNicholl himself has endorsed Peter Munce over willy hay in foyle.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 08:45 AMlofty
How long do you think it will be before we can expect to see Frankie Gallagher’s name on a ballot paper?
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 10:32 AM“Amid calls for the UDA to be legalised” - WTF!
Anybody able to give me some info on just who is making these calls? and why?
And would that also involve the legalisation of extortion, drug dealing, concealed weapons and pirate copies of designer label clothing?Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 10:52 AM“The IRA hasn’t gone away, and the UDA is exactly the same.”
Great title Pete and I agree however I think they remain at their strongest in the mindsets of their communities.
The last few years have shown that, left to themselves, the DUP and Sinn Fein cannot
make politics work and keep it working so it is precisely for this reason that people need to re-open the middle ground. IMO, only this will ensure an end to direct rule. The same result as the last time will only produce more of the same: suspension, direct rule and chest banging, blame-game politics. Is that going happen? I doubt it. Why? Because of uncompromising, entrenched and begrudging attitudes that think that all the murdering and killing was sad and regrettable, it wouldn’t have to happen if “them’uns” would just see sense!No, the UDA, the IRA and all the rest have NOT gone away and they’ll be with us until WE send them away.
Vote the middle ground and make politics work!
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 11:54 AMHowever he ruled out disbandment saying: “The IRA hasn’t gone away, and the UDA is exactly the same.”
a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4283444.stm">Hmmm...</a>
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 11:55 AMTry again
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 11:56 AMLHW: “The launch of the booklet/pamphlet at the Guidhall on Wednesday night was yet another step on the path of CTI (Conflict Transformation initiative) that the UDA has been engaged in this past 18 months or so. It is an evolution not a revolution and is being conducted openly through consultations within the organisation. “
Still debating the amount of Danegeld to demand? Gotta make sure they has enough extorted gov’t cash to spread around…
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 12:39 PMI noticed among all the chest thumping and finger pointing there is not one mention of decommisioning
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 12:47 PMIt is an evolution not a revolution
Sorry for going off-subject but it reminds me of the Alan Partridge quote - “I evolve but I don’t revolve”
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 01:05 PM“The UDA is giving a lead saying they want bread and butter issues tackled, and they want to create an environment in which there is no longer a need for paramilitarism.”
What a load of old cobblers! Coming up with acronyms such as CTI and waffling about “creating environments” can’t deflect from the simple truth - a bunch of thugs want a large wedge of cash from the taxpayer and will dress it up as “conflict transformation”.
Here’s a tip for ya gents if you want to make some money. Go and get a feckin job like the rest of us.
These people are unelected and already pulling in an illegal fortune and to that end they deserve squat.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 01:13 PM“lofty
How long do you think it will be before we can expect to see Frankie Gallagher’s name on a ballot paper?”
A good question. The honest answer is within a few years I would imagine. Or at least that is what he would hope. Whether ultimately any UPRG representative stands for election (on behalf of the UPRG as a political party) is the subject of much debate. As an Independent then anything is possible (even probable). Electable though? Something entirely different. There is a huge ‘constituency’ of non voting UDA members (and friends and families) out there. Is there someone who could inspire them to vote? We shall see.
“Still debating the amount of Danegeld to demand? Gotta make sure they has enough extorted gov’t cash to spread around…”
Utter drivel. We have been down this argument before. No demands are being placed and any request for legitimate funding will be based on achievable and deliverable improvements for impoverished areas.
“Sorry for going off-subject but it reminds me of the Alan Partridge quote - “I evolve but I don’t revolve””
I preferred his famous quote on Bloody Sunday but there you go. By evolution not revolution I am indicating that changes will occur without bloodshed.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 02:07 PM“I noticed among all the chest thumping and finger pointing there is not one mention of decommisioning”
For the simple reason that it is not part of CTI. The IMC are the body responsible for that aspect of the transformation and they meet regularly with representatives of the UPRG.
Decommissioning minds is far more important than decommissioning some guns. As England has shown recently guns are cheap, throwaway items nowadays. We need to stop people firing the guns. Logic surely dictates that we do this in any way we can.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 02:15 PMWe have been down this argument before. No demands are being placed and any request for legitimate funding will be based on achievable and deliverable improvements for impoverished areas.
If regeneration of loyalist areas is the issue then why is this not being driven by the local MP’s? E.g. Peter Robinson, East Belfast.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 02:16 PMLHW: “We have been down this argument before. No demands are being placed and any request for legitimate funding will be based on achievable and deliverable improvements for impoverished areas. “
Just because they gotten marginally more sophisticated and learned to make implicit threats, what with their amassed armaments still in hand, makes them no less the thugs, LHW.
LHW: “For the simple reason that it is not part of CTI. The IMC are the body responsible for that aspect of the transformation and they meet regularly with representatives of the UPRG. “
And get told “no, not without a dump-trucks worth of money for the lads...”
LHW: “Decommissioning minds is far more important than decommissioning some guns.”
Right—pull the other leg, its got bells… How many folks you killed telekinetically this week, LHW?
LHW: “ As England has shown recently guns are cheap, throwaway items nowadays. We need to stop people firing the guns. Logic surely dictates that we do this in any way we can.”
Paying off the godfathers of the street is just Danegeld and will have the same effect, i.e. none.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 02:27 PMDavid Nicholl, the Ulster Political Research Group spokesman in the North West, said a new path to peace was being forged by the UDA, whose ceasefire has lasted for 12 years.
Couldn’t make it up...hold on, they just did.
Decommissioning minds is far more important than decommissioning some guns. As England has shown recently guns are cheap, throwaway items nowadays. We need to stop people firing the guns. Logic surely dictates that we do this in any way we can.
As you may remember, that line didn’t work for the IRA so I’m not sure it should work for the UDA. Having said that why should the UDA (or uVF)decommission? Nobody outside of Nationalism seems that bothered.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 02:33 PM“How many folks you killed telekinetically this week, LHW?”
None. But if you know the way to do it telekinetically reveal all - I’ll pass it on and we’ll give it a shot (literally!).
I’m not sure if i am reading the same IMC report as you all seem to have but I did a quick count of murders directly attributed to and sanctioned by the UDA in the last six months and came up with....zero.
The fact remains that CTI is with us, it is working, it is a laudable effort and it is seemingly achieving the task it set out to do. More is needed and it will no doubt follow. I admire those that at least try and consult with UDA members and achieve a consensus and a way forward. They are doing fantastic work on the ground and deserve recognition.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 02:51 PMThey are doing fantastic work on the ground and deserve recognition.
I’d advise the people on the ground to recommend that their colleagues buy Friday’s Tele and look for a job rather than expect the taxpayer to foot the bill of their “new mode”.You personally do seem to have honourable intentions LHW, but when I look at my payslip and see how much goes out the door in NI and tax it sickens me to think that wee Janty propping up the bar in the Bunch of Grapes is going to get his mits on my Govt deductions.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 03:10 PM“wee Janty propping up the bar in the Bunch of Grapes is going to get his mits on my Govt deductions”
It’s not called the Bunch Of Grapes any more (too many murders)Its now called the Brox Bar and is a shrine to all things Glasgow Rangers. Not sure if you have to give a nazi salute going in the door but the uda drug lords are still very visable
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 03:20 PMLHW: “I’m not sure if i am reading the same IMC report as you all seem to have but I did a quick count of murders directly attributed to and sanctioned by the UDA in the last six months and came up with....zero. “
Since you seem memory impaired…
You put forth the thesis that guns don’t kill, minds kill.
Now, as we have just agreed, minds don’t kill They can’t. You can think all the nasty thoughts at me you want, but it just can’t be done. Ergo, turn in the guns and let the UDA think all the unpleasent thoughts they wish.
But then, how will the boys defend their drug turf?
LHW: “I admire those that at least try and consult with UDA members and achieve a consensus and a way forward.”
Bollocks. It cements the state’s surrender of civic power. When the street-fathers are more important and have more influence that the city-fathers, we have a problem. Lauding the continutation of this surrender does nothing to solve the problem.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 03:34 PMPete,
Definitely not one of your better headlines. I’m actually surprised.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 05:06 PMYoda
Surprised by my use of a quote from the article which reflects how the UDA see their current position?
You did see the quotation marks?.. and you did read past the headline?
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 06:49 PMIndeed, Pete, which makes the headline all the worse.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2007 @ 06:59 PM
