Sunday, August 12, 2007
“the first step is to act with good authority by telling the truth to your own tribe”
Interesting piece in the Sunday Independent from newly appointed senator Eoghan Harris on his appearance at West Belfast Talks Back. He takes issue with his introduction by the BBC’s Martina Purdy but the point to note, I’d suggest, whilst others march for half-truth, is something picked up briefly in Malachi O’Doherty’s audio diary on Sunday Sequence. Namely his challenge to his own tribe for some self-examination.
Forty-one years ago, this weekend, I travelled to Maghera, Co Derry, with Dr Roy Johnston of the Republican movement’s think tank, the Wolfe Tone Society, and Cathal Goulding, chief of staff of the IRA, to attend a secret meeting of assorted academics, communists and IRA leaders, which was held at the fine farm of Kevin Agnew over the weekend of August 14-15 in the golden autumn of 1966.
Although I was not a member of the IRA, Eamon Maille’s book The Provisional IRA correctly records that at the Maghera meeting, I read out the comprehensive plan, drawn up by the Dublin Wolfe Tone Society, for setting up the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association (NICRA), which Goulding hoped would both achieve civil rights and lead the Republican movement away from a narrow nationalist agenda.
While that peaceful project was thwarted by Unionist politicians like William Craig, and later by the equally bigoted nationalists like British-born Provo IRA intransigent Sean Mac Stiophain, there is no truth in the People’s Democracy claim that sectarian violence was inevitable. The Provisional IRA willed that worst scenario.
Back in August 1966, however, neither Roy Johnston nor myself dreamed that the noble dream of NICRA was doomed to be diverted into the sterile struggle of the Provisional IRA. Above all, as I told my audience, if I myself could have seen 12 years ahead, I doubt whether I would have continued to support even the civil rights struggle.
Because 12 years later, in Maghera, on February 28 1978, William Gordon, a part-time member of the UDR, together with his 10-year-old daughter Lesley, were blown to bits by a car bomb planted by Francis Hughes, who later died on hunger strike. And while Hughes, as I told the West Belfast meeting, might be one of their local heroes, to me, as a Wolfe Tone republican, he seemed a sectarian murderer.
In spite of this, and in spite of the sectarian mind-set of many Northern nationalists, the dream of Wolfe Tone’s benign Republic of minds and hearts never died in my heart of hearts. And, as I told the audience, far from changing my mind on this core issue, for the past 41 years I have consistently tried to show my tribe the two sides of that Wolfe Tone coin.
Pete Baker @ 02:36 PM
Interesting isn’t it that only one side is accused of seeking ‘half truth’ by Pete Half-Baked.
It would be even more interesting, of course, if the mirror mentioned in this thread should be raised to reflect the evil done by British state forces.
We live in hope....
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 03:14 PMone post in and the whaterboutery begins
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 03:25 PMIt’s only whataboutery, I suppose, when the role of state sponsored murderers is being highlighted. When it’s the role of the IRA which is under the spotlight, what do you call it, “A march for half truth?”
Nothing like a bit of evenhandedness.
It should be pointed out that republicans have spent thousands of years between them for their roles in conflict related slayings during the Troubles. I ask the same question as I asked before: How many years have the state sponsored murderers, the security forces, spent in chokey for their killings? Answers on a post card please to Pete Half Baked....
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 03:48 PMI think everyone would accept that Harris has been consistent in his opposition to Sinn Féin and the IRA to the point of allying himself with the WP at a time when it had an armed wing and with support for state censorship. But it’s equally fair to say it is the only thing has ever been politically consistent on.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 03:59 PM“Evenhandedness”, Oilibhear, would be understanding that “There is no worth in a half-truth process”
It has been mentioned before..
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 04:08 PMThere is of course no worth in a half truth process. I agree. I just wonder when you will understand that.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 04:10 PMI’m sorry but how are Republicans/ Nationalists Eoghan Harris’s own tribe? What part of Wolfe Tone’s dream has he been espousing? I read him fairly regularly and I can’t see any kind of espousal of a repblican agenda in the broadest sense.
As for sectarianism, I seem to recall him criticising Southern Protestants last year because they weren’t as obseessed with he was in criticising actions in the War of independence.
What republicans since 1798 would not be sectarian murderers inhis eyes, I wonder.
I do think Eoghan Harris is a bright guy (despite disagreeing with him), but I really don’t see what is advanced by this article.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 04:11 PMOne other thing - he dismisses an entire community as lacking moral legitimacy as they vote Sinn Fein and then calls the Provos fascists....hmmm
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 04:13 PMOf course Eoghan Harris is consistent with the party line espoused by many fellow travellers from the Sticky movement. They have no interest in the actions and misdeeds of British security forces being put under the spotlight. It’s not odd, you see, to wonder why your relative was targetted by a member of the forces ordained by the Government to protect you.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 04:21 PMCollusion was wrong in itself and I have every sympathy for families of imnocent victims.
I do have less sympathy with families of terrorists killed.
I also think that SF and it’s proxies are using this issue to
1) attack the British for attackings sake .
2) distract their supporters from asking awkward questions of them.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 05:28 PMThis is just the classic example of Shin Fein trying to revise history and mask the blood dripping from thier hands,
they are marching for the truth? yet no mention of the 11 innocent civillians murdered in cold blood on a van, bcause of religion,
or the 9 innocent civillians murdered in the shankill road because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time,
no mention of the countless of innocent nationalists murdered because they didnt agree with the IRA, murdered by an organisation calling itself a protector of the catholic community,
were is the metnion of the disappered?
no republicans dont want to hear these voices, and if anyone trys to ask where is justice for anyone murdered by republicans, alex maskey calls them insensitive!!!
thye would be better off calling a spade a spade and marching for truth from everyside, the people will soon see through the bullsh**, and go against them, history will not be revised in norther ireland, and republicans will never get to justify their unjust murder campigan!
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 05:38 PM“I can’t see any kind of espousal of a repblican agenda in the broadest sense.”
Andy - is that not because the ‘republican agenda’
of the 20th century - Pearse’s dream, Faith and fatherland etc - is very different from what Tone wanted ?Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 05:41 PMOne rather important part Harris’s article bears closer examination.
“at the Maghera meeting, I read out the comprehensive plan, drawn up by the Dublin Wolfe Tone Society, for setting up the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association (NICRA), which Goulding hoped would both achieve civil rights and lead the Republican movement away from a narrow nationalist agenda.”
So much for the sacred cow that NICRA arose spontaneously from the midst of terribly oppressed people of NI.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 05:51 PMHarris’s description of Susan MacKay following her ‘challenge to her own tribe for self-examination’:
‘A guilty Prod’
Not a man to be subjected to the tyranny of consistency.Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 06:05 PMCuchulain
Every party marches in support of its own objectives. What is the concern with this? I don’t think anyone has criticised the DUP for not marching for the victims of bloody sunday.Cruimh
Interesting point with yout 5:41 post. I presumed thats what Harris would say himself. However ultimately the republic of ireland was created - the connection withe England was broken, in Tone’s parlance, by the kind of people Harris despises.I’m here talking about the old ira not the provos.Essentially it is esy to say you’re a republican if the only organisations you approved of were a bunch of incompetent revolutionaries a couple of hundred years ago who, I’m afraid to say, didnt achieve anything.
Furthermore I don’t even think the provos are particularly worse than the various people he’s supported over the years.Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 06:13 PMCruimh,
Goulding and other socialist republicans never tried to hide their involvement in the campaign for basic democratic rights - or as the CSJ used to put it British rights for British citizens. But lots of other elements were also involved, including unionists. NICRA was an alliance of progressive forces aimed at democratising NI, not destroying it.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 06:15 PMAndy,
The various people Harris has supported over the years never commited sectarian murders. That’s what separates them from the provisionals, and that’s what separates the provos from republicans.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 06:18 PM“Goulding and other socialist republicans never tried to hide their involvement in the campaign for basic democratic rights “
You and I know that Garibaldy - but it’s not part of the broader nationalist narrative which portrays NICRA as spontaneously arising because of events in Caledon 1968.
“NICRA was an alliance of progressive forces aimed at democratising NI, not destroying it.”
Certainly many of it’s supporters thought that - however It’s impossible to divorce it from physical force republcanism and it really was a continuation by other means of unfinished business such as the disastrous “Border Campaign”.
Thse things all blurred together - and one cannot place the (msguided) unionist reaction into any proper context without allowing for all these others.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 06:27 PMHas this fiction now become fact in your eyes Pete? Thread after thread seems to be focussed on this.
I have a mother-in-law like that. She makes something up, repeats it often enough that her narrative soon becomes fact.
The British must be taken to task for their crimes whether you like it or not.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 06:34 PM“The various people Harris has supported over the years never commited sectarian murders. That’s what separates them from the provisionals, and that’s what separates the provos from republicans.” - Garibaldy
Exactly. And as Harris pointed out, a man who decapitated a 10-year-old protestant girl makes a very poor “Republican” martyr.
Cruimh, it was a suspicion among Unionists that NICRA was a front for the IRA, so that is hardly a ‘revelation.’ It wasn’t a front for the IRA, but the issue of civil rights was hijacked by the Provisionals in a way that wasn’t foreseen by Harris, Goulding, and, I doubt, the other groups who formed it a year latter.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 06:43 PMCruimh,
The republican approach to NICRA was indeed related to the Border Campaign. Its dismal failure and the total lack of support for it forced a rethink, and a realisation that political agitation on a socialist agenda was the only way forward. Aims were therefore moved away from simple reunification. So NICRA was not the border campaign by other means but instead closer to a replacement for it.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 06:49 PMAndy,
My problem with the march is simple, if your calling your march “the march for truth, and caring for viticms, then you cant do it while you are the cause of so much pain and suffering in the country.
Acting like you are the only side affected by the conflict, as well as being part of that british coullsion, is an inslut to all viticms.
if you want to march for truth, and be a champion for victems, then start with the pain you caused to others.
let he is without sin cast the first stone, sort of situation! they are calling for the biritsh to look at what you have done to the nationalsit people, while ignoring the the harm they cause to it and the unionist side!
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 07:11 PM‘Nothing like a bit of evenhandedness. ‘
Good point OC
So let us all ensure that the political, cultural, military and historical handjobberry is kept up to speed.
A simple fact. Dare it be called truth?
There are approximately 3600 people dead as a result of thirty years (plus) of struggle, trouble, conflict, war, upheaval, disturbance.Debating and scoring points may be exciting. Or tedious. The more I read on Slugger, the less attention I pay to the catholic/protestant, unionist/nationalist, republican/ loyalist ‘PROBLEM’;
In 2007 it strikes me as a waste of time and energy.
My own particular prejudice is pretty general, and probably far too broad and sweeping for any religious or political limitations.
It’s clear to me – and has been since the age of 12 or so – that most people are bastards, thieves and yes – even swineshaggers. There may not be many good people in this world. As evidence I submit… well you’ve already sussed out the rest. Eh sir?
OC. Thank you for a great revelation. It is this.
I’m too old for the informed, nuanced cut and thrust of what passes for right or wrong in this particular sliver of the planet.
But in terms of political action and analysis I still like Dick Gregory’s notion:
‘This isn’t a matter of black and white – it’s a matter of right and wrong’.
Mahalo
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 07:38 PMThe march is a complete farce and hypocracy.
1) SF need to acknowledge that they had a major role in the troubles and committed awful and inhumane murders, sectarian, indiscriminate and cold blooded.
They need to own up and acknowledge that they have a lot of truth to uncover and that they created more victims than any other group during the troubles.Everyone deserves truth and recognision from all groups who committed murder and took loved ones away from their partners, children, parents etc and this part of Irelnad seriously needs to think about setting up a Truth and rememberance process for victims, led by victims and around their needs. It’s easy to forget that they are the most important people when discussing victims and ‘truth’.
2) SF actually have no shame. A march for ‘truth’ - while not uncovering the truth about their murderous deeds themselves. This is an extremely sensitive issue, very raw and very real and they are exploiting it for their own ends - while McGuinness said his loyality to the IRA comes before the truth and while SF tried to sign away the right to truth for all victims with the ‘on-the-runs’ legislation - giving state murderers immunity in return for immunity for the ‘on-the’runs’. Thankfully they where stopped.
I don’t see how this ‘campaign’ (if that is what it is) can be taken seriously by anyone. You wear a black ribbon when you mourn - not when you want to exploit something - it’s very much a twisted and disgraceful act. SHAME.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 07:45 PMCuchulainn,
“My problem with the march is simple, if your calling your march “the march for truth, and caring for viticms, then you cant do it while you are the cause of so much pain and suffering in the country.”
In principle I can’t fault your reasoning and your moral position. It’s simply that I can’t help thinking that if Sinn Féin don’t agitate for the truth from a republican/nationalist perspective, who will?
Unionists are welcome to hold their own “truth” march for their own side and its victims, and I urge them to do just that.
I could be wrong but I don’t see any group marching for the whole community anytime soon.
Posted by on Aug 12, 2007 @ 07:52 PM
