Tuesday, December 04, 2007
“strong on aspiration, but low on detail.”
The Sinn Féin Education spokesman, Barry McElduff, praises it as “visionary” - although the chairman of the Assembly’s Education Committee, Sammy Wilson, was quoted on Talkback as calling it a “plateful of platitudes with a spoonful of substance”. The Northern Ireland Education Minister, Sinn Féin’s Caitríona Ruane, has made a statement in the Assembly - available for now at the SF website - outlining the future for post-primary education - “Next year will be the last year of the 11-plus. There will be no 11-plus in 2009.” - BBC report here Adds The Executive website catches up. And Mark Devenport notes some of the reaction in the Assembly. Update Additional BBC report
From the ministerial statement
“In my vision, young people will enjoy equal access to their post-14 educational pathway in a number of ways - as determined by the planning of education in their local areas. The options include:
Access within an 11-19 schoolTransfer to an alternative 11-19 school
Access through an 11-19 school or a post 14 school which offers the Entitlement Framework in collaboration with other schools or in a learning community.
A local area may offer general provision in 11-14 schools, followed by specialism and diversity in 14 plus provision.
“An academic pathway will remain, accessed by intelligent, well-informed and mature election and available through modern organisational flexibility.”
And
“Following a period of consultation, I intend to bring forward regulations governing the operation of post-primary transfer for 2010, and for the subsequent interim period before the implementation of a 14+ system of election.
“There will be no 11+ Transfer Test in the 2009/10 school year.
“Pupils transferring to post-primary school in September 2010 will do so overwhelmingly on the basis of their preferences for schools - in much the same way that they choose their primary schools and pre-schools now. From 2010 the criteria will include:
Community, Geographical and Family criteria“Many grammar schools have been admitting a wide ability range for some years now and will receive all their pupils in September 2010 without regard to academic assessment.
“Some grammar schools may need some time and assistance to adjust to the new system outlined today. In my forthcoming discussions with them I hope to be able to reach an agreed way forward to facilitate the transition.
“I would hope that all grammar schools would see a positive future for academic education in my vision for education. If any school, however, chooses to operate independent admissions arrangements that lie outside the new system of transfer, I want to make it clear that there is no obligation on my department to assist with funding.”
Update The Education minister has apparently clarified that the reference to “no obligation on my department to assist with funding” relates to the funding of any alternative selection procedure - such as the alternative proposed here.
More From the additional BBC report
Ms Ruane declined to give a straight answer when asked whether the new system would be subject to such a cross-community vote.
Some Ulster Unionists have expressed concern that by using “regulations” rather than a new law, the minister might avoid a cross-community vote.
But, DUP sources have told the BBC that because passing new regulations will require what is known as a “negative resolution” of the assembly, the plan can still be forced to a vote.
Sinn Fein sources acknowledge this, but counter that the 11-plus is gone and will not be coming back.
If the DUP tries to reintroduce academic selection to any new transfer criteria, Sinn Fein said nationalists would be able to use cross-community voting to stop such a move in its tracks.
Pete Baker @ 12:36 PM
I would also hope that no Primary School is allowed to put resources behind supporting any private selection procedure and that schools using an alternate unsanctioned procedure are excluded from any funding at all not just that associated with the selection procedure.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 12:54 PMThe termination of academic selection at whatever age is to be welcomed. It is long overdue
Initial impression.
Forget the debate around evolution vs creationism. From the ministerial statement, and without substantive proposals on the way forward, it appears that CHAOS theory will be the theoretical underpinning in the design and delivery of post-primary education.
My daughters P4 cooking club is making fudge this afternoon. Allegedly the recipe came from Rathgael House.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:07 PMA disappointing statement, lacking detail and, in many ways, I feel, somewhat confused.
I’m not opposed in principle to the idea of transfer at 14, as I accept the argument that 11 is too young an age for children to go through a selection process. At age 14 I believe most children are sufficiently mature to be able to have a meaningful input into decisions of vital importance about their education.
But if transfer is to occur at 14, there still must be a role for academic selection, otherwise we are left with selection based on parental wealth, which is - quite clearly - a worse evil than academic selection.
Although by age 14 many more children and parents will have concluded that it is not appropriate to pursue an academic education than at age 11, it will still be the case that most children and parents will wish to go to a grammar school, which means that grammar schools will be over-subscribed and thereby will require a means of selection. Selecting by proximity to the school will mean that children whose parents can afford to live in wealthy areas adjacent to grammar schools will be able to access those grammar places.
Even worse is the prospect of grammar schools becoming independent private schools - something effectively endorsed by Ruane in her statement.
There is no point in aspiring to an egalitarian system if there is going to be a parallel system running alongside to which access is gained by fees paid for by parental wealth.
Finally, it is grossly hypocritical of Ruane to condemn division based on social class and/or educational ability while endorsing division based on religion - something which should be of particular concern to Northern Ireland.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:13 PMSome interesting comments, willowfield, but there was never going to be a perfect system. Although I, and all my siblings passed the 11+, I don’t think it can be justified at that early an age.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:18 PMRight, time for all of the DUP lickspittles to show themselves in their true, fearless colours. This was the *one* thing you useless crowd of t*rds swore/whispered/cunningly assured/briefed etc etc. You made it as plain as a pikestaff that academic selection would be preserved because indiviudal ministerial unilateralism would be put a stop to post that whizz bang deal you cooked up at St Andrew’s. Okay then - what gives? Would even one gobsh*te from the press office care to saunter along and explain what gives? I’m quite prepared, on the non-basis of Ruane’s utterly typical form-free waffle, to believe that she *hasn’t* acheived anything, and all of this is just whistling to keep up the flagging morale of her own supporters. Fair enough, but just one thing - let’s have one of you dimwitted Paisleyite goons come along and explain why that’s the case.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:27 PMnice post willowfield - I’ll 2nd that one…
Fogive me if this is a stupid question - but do all nationalists want rid of grammer schools? I was under the impression that many of the top Schools in NI were catholic grammer schools - what are the opinions of the headmasters of these schools?I find it a little bizarre that the politions are split down the orange/green divide over this - is their position representative or their communities? I assume it is…
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:28 PMAhem,
Ever think of just saying please?
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:30 PMJOE CANUCK
I agree 11 is too young - didn’t I make that clear?
But at 14 there needs to be academic selection otherwise we have selection by parental wealth.
I would say, though, that academic selection at 11 should continue until Ruane has worked out the detail of what exactly she is going to replace it with. Otherwise chaos ensues.
AHEM
I second your call for the DUP to explain how the St Andrews Agreement will enable them to stop Ruane abolishing the 11+.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:30 PMLong awaited, laterly long expected.
Congratulations to the Minister.
The Education system has long been broken and this is a start to the improvement programme, it’s all a part of the jigsaw with curriculum, a collegiate system, demographic changes and the establishment of the ESA.
Now is the time for the Minister to put to one side the histrionics in the assembly and put the effort into supporting Head Teachers and Teachers to implement the changes. They are crying out for direction.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:34 PMYes you did , willowfield.
But I think that, at age 14, young folks who think they have no academic abilities will be better able to resist their parents’, sometimes unrealistic, aspirations.
When I went to grammar school, we had two kids in our year who had failed the 11+ but their parents paid for them to go privately. One was in my class and he suffered miserably for 2 years before his parents took him out. The other one ending up playing truant every day for two months before he was caught out.
Not very pleasant for either of those boys.Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:37 PMAgh
Im not from there but its seems more like one took up a position so the other just automatically took up the fundamentally oposite positionPosted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:45 PMC’mon then - you lot were good enough at shouting in the past. Isn’t there even a single, solitary Paisleyite who’ll explain how this clear piece of would-be ministerial unilateralism *isn’t* actually going to happen?
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:50 PMCraigavon got it rigt 38 years ago - you don’t hear that too often!
at 11 go to junior high school
at 14 complete a wide range of test/exams before deciding on GCSE topics
those who do well and are academic go to the College (grammar)
those who are not academic go to the Senior High School - (do GCSE appropriate to their ability) - those who wish to do A levels or HNC etc go to Upper Bann institute.
at 18/19 those with the HNC/Alevels necessary go to University.
- Sorted
When will the rest of you catch up - its works, its fair, pupils like it, parents like, teachers like it - but its more expensive!
Come on catriona go the whole hog implement the Dickson Plan across Northern Ireland.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:54 PMNo, Shawn, it isn’t as simple (or ugly) as that. I doubt that all SF or all DUP or the others are unified in their thoughts although I could be wrong.
There is a lot of pride, justifiable, in the achievements of our grammar schools.
It’s a question, to me, of whether or not it’s reasonable to put all that stress on children at age 11. And whether or not the exam is fair in terms of life choices. Lots of kids who might not be ready at 11 may be at 12 or 13.Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 01:55 PMwould all sides agree to selection at 14?
Or are the parties setting out their stalls first, fight for a few months, then agree for selection at 14 - everyone wins and the chuckle brothers can boast about how their 2 parties can work together?
I predict a selection at 14 policy to be endorsed around late April.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 02:06 PMWhy academic selection?
Why not academic and vocational selection?Why not give a kid half an hour to put a bike together and if they can’t send them to the Grammar School?
Looks funny the other way around!
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 02:08 PMJoe>>There is a lot of pride, justifiable, in the achievements of our grammar schools.
It’s a question, to me, of whether or not it’s reasonable to put all that stress on children at age 11. And whether or not the exam is fair in terms of life choices. Lots of kids who might not be ready at 11 may be at 12 or 13.<<Stress is a minor issue here. The real issues are why we have the highest proportion of kids in the UK leaving school with no qualifications and why we spend 2 years of primary school “teaching” kids exam technique rather than something useful like science, maths, english or french.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 02:09 PMAhem,
In fairness DUP commenters have been pretty thin on the ground around here recently; they may be trying to work out whether or not Ms. Ruane’s statement is a coporate one.I am no expert on education and try to stay out of the rights and wrongs of this debate.
I do notice, however, that Ruane seems to have left herself a bit of “wriggle room”. Maybe it is just me but look at this:-
“If any school, however, chooses to operate independent admissions arrangements that lie outside the new system of transfer, I want to make it clear that there is no obligation on my department to assist with funding.”
Well she says there is no obligation. That is not the same thing as saying she will definitely not fund them.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 02:13 PMI know one thing - Given the comments of our Culture Minister earlier in the week (demonstrating a complete ignorance of modern biology, cosmology, archaeology, history and theology) something had better change soon in our local education system!
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 02:16 PMI wonder what the criteria “community, geography, family” mean. If my state primary schooled child has to walk past an controlled ex-grammar to get to the nearest state ex-high and I think the “catholic” schools better does geography or “community” take precedence?
The important thing is to keep putting positive choices in front of kids. My own education is scattered with enough distinctions and scrapes for me to believe that academic success is much more positively correlated with effort than ability. Effort’s a function of motivation and direction and motivation’s a function of the potential rewards and the expectation of success.
If you want all kids to succeed you need to show them something relevant to aim at and there is more choice in the vocational stream. I’m a fan of the new, BTEC inspired, English diplomas. Before anyone decries their vocational bias it’s interesting that the Royal Society of Chemistry amongst others called for a Science Diploma as they saw that traditional GCSE/A level science teaching is much too theoretical for kids to see that there are actually many day to day science based jobs, rather than just using science as a stepping stone to a profession such as medecine or pharmacy.
We should be putting all our kids in a vocational environment as soon as possible. If the very bookish want an atmosphere of deeper academic exploration than may be available in the higher streams of their Academy (rather than vocation breadth and facilities) let them apply at 14 to the Grammar where they can take something academically integrated but more theoretical and swotty like the Bac.Standar route should then be
Primary => Academy (Junior School) => Academy (Senior School)
or
Primary => Academy (Junior School) => Grammar (from 14)
This would also help strip out a bit of snobbery as the Academy would be on everyone’s CVs.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 02:25 PMThere will be changes no doubt.
Will any of the protestant churches come together and request the same rights as their Catholic brethren in the control of schools to provide for a protestant ethos in those schools?
When making changes we may as well go the whole way and not compromise.
How this will affect the selection procedure at 14/15 years is not certain but is another factor to complicate matters.Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 02:28 PM“Why not give a kid half an hour to put a bike together and if they can’t send them to the Grammar School?
Looks funny the other way around!”
Well said Willis. Kids should not be allowed to study classics until they can bake a cake, paper a wall, configure a PC, drive a car, deliver CPR and balance their bank account.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 02:29 PMTurgon/agh
I think you are right. Actually Sammy Wilson gave it away today.
He asked Ms Ruane: “Given the fact that there is going to be a gap between 2008 and 2011, how does she intend to give some assurance to school principals and to parents as to what will happen in that period?”
So - principle accepted - work on the practicalities.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 02:30 PMUlsterfan,
The Protestant ethos is already well represented in state schools via the almost unknown Transferors Representatives Council which is guaranteed Board of Governors places and membership on the ELBs. Separation of church and state in schooling is a cleverly constructed myth. Many state schools were transfered to the Dept of Education from Protestant church control 50/60/70s and the churches were then guaranteed permanent influence within those schools.
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 02:32 PMSelection at 11 has patently failed, so a new system is necessary. I guess it still remains to be seen what that will be, as the waffle around this is nearly impenetrable - but what is so horribly wrong with streaming by ability within a school?
The number of parents buying their intellectually mediocre children a place at a grammar school shows clearly that money, not merit, is more likely to secure a place for many kids who really don’t come up to the intellectual standard supposedly required. Why continue to prop up this outmoded system which is cheating many children?
Posted by on Dec 04, 2007 @ 02:37 PM
