Thursday, December 28, 2006
Stay awake at the back..
Just in case no-one was paying attention, Sinn Féin’s Martin McGuinness thoughtfully issued slightly modified statements just before and just after Christmas saying the same thing - i.e. not a lot. The PA report, though, correctly highlights what the statements don’t say
Update RTÉ reports SF to hold ard comhairle meeting tomorrow More Other parties’ responses hereSo far Sinn Fein has not even set a date for the special party delegate conference which it has to call to gain backing from its membership for support of the Police Service.
It is known the party faces a level of internal opposition to the idea of endorsing the police and Mr McGuinness gave no hint in his statement whether the party was getting any nearer getting a date for the all important conference.
Then there’s that little issue of MI5.. and other associated dilemmas
More on target dates, commitments, deadlines and conditions here.
Adds The RTÉ report has some of Gerry Adams’ statement
He said that if plans for an Ard Fheis were agreed, there would be ‘an intensive period of discussion within the party’ which would be led by party chairperson Mary Lou McDonald.
Mr Adams said Sinn Fein would consult with ‘the wider republican and nationalist community across the island, including the families of our patriot dead and victims of state murder and collusion’.
Pete Baker @ 11:43 AM
You can put a baby on the potty, but you can’t make it poo.
which is another way of saying:
You can introduce a whore-to-culture but you can’t make her think.
Its all in the Xmas crackers ;)Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 01:17 PMParcifal.
Deal is done, he is just playing games with his “own”
Sinn Fein have no other option.
Ingram
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 02:13 PMaye martin,
just a bit a shy to put on the virgin white dress, in case they’ll be laughed at; but its no time to be coy now is it :)Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 02:20 PMParcifal.
I suppose we all should be relieved in that we are at the end of this long road.This is really a seismic point in time.
Once this rubicon is passed Sinn Fein will be on new ground both politicaly and from within its own communities.
The leadership of Sinn Fein can Hum, rrrrr and do a jig in the bollocky buff till next christmas.
The deal is done. Sinn Fein are no longer Republicans working towards the 1916 principles but are a partionist party modeled upon the SDLP.
Nothin wrong in that but lets have it right.
Have a nice break.
Ingram
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 02:34 PMmartin
I agree with all you’ve said, and can tell you’ve put the hatchet away for a while, but on the last point:
<i>The deal is done. Sinn Fein are no longer Republicans working towards the 1916 principles but are a partionist party modeled upon the SDLP.<i>
I’m not so sure. It looks like that through a certain lens; however through mine I’ve a feeling that once these two bed-fellows ( SF & DUP )start to get to know each other, the irish erection might prove hard to resist. ( and that was erection not election in case you thought it was a typo :)SF are very much committed to helping the border counties, in all sorts of ways, and removing partition
http://www.sinnfeinonline.com/news/2193
...nibbling away…enjoy your break too
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 02:44 PMParcifal.
It must be the time of the year and a spirit to see good in my fellow man.LOL
In respect to Sinn Fein. I honestly can see no material differences between the two parties, they certainly are not Republicans .That mantle must and will pass to others.
Martin
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 02:57 PM‘In respect to Sinn Fein. I honestly can see no material differences between the two parties, they certainly are not Republicans .That mantle must and will pass to others. ‘
And we shall leave it to a British agent/spook/murderer to decide who are or are not Irish Republicans?
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 03:16 PMAnd we shall leave it to a British agent/spook/murderer to decide who are or are not Irish Republicans?
Considering all that Scappaticci did and dispatched in his role in IRA “security”, or what Donaldson was doing in his two decades as a British agent, amongst countless others, any Shinner has a bit of cheek using that to needle the likes of Ingram with. It isn’t Ingram that should be put to, now, is it?
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 03:23 PM‘try the leadership...’
The spooks have agents in Sinn Fein as they have in all political parties in Britain and in Ireland, including the dissident unionists and republicans, the UUP and the DUP and Uncle Tom Cobley and all.
Your point is?
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 03:30 PMOne can overanalyze these things, but could there be some significance in the following extract from McGuinness’s statement?
“This work will continue in the coming days to try and ensure that agreement can be made with the DUP to get the power-sharing institutions back up and running as quickly as possible.”
“As quickly as possible”? Not like Sinn Fein to be as imprecise. Surely “on 26 March 2007” is what he means.
Or could it be that an arrangement with the DUP would include some delay in the restoration date to allow for Willie McCrea et al’s longer “testing period”?
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 03:43 PM‘Considering all that Scappaticci did and dispatched in his role in IRA “security”, or what Donaldson was doing in his two decades as a British agent, amongst countless others, any Shinner has a bit of cheek using that to needle the likes of Ingram with. It isn’t Ingram that should be put to, now, is it? ‘
Ingram, I like the new name.
I don’t see any of those you name on Slugger telling the world who or who are republicans, just your fine self.Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 03:55 PMwell Pete, giving us a round up without saying anything new seems to be spreading to yourself aswell. all you’ve done is post a couple of off-site links to things we already know and probably won’t change for some time yet, and then a few “i told you so” links.
really, was there any need?
i know it’s slow around Xmas, but that isn’t really an excuse for re-hashing the same articles and the same commentary that we’ve had from the last few weeks.and now we’ve gotten to the pathetic bickering which generally occurs when Martin posts his usual inane comments.
top job.
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 04:39 PM“We have made considerable progress over the Christmas period and have been working with both the Taoiseach Bertie Ahern and British Prime Minister Tony Blair, including contact once again this afternoon.”
Read MM statement above again and you will see just how far the man has fallen, he must be just about the only person left in Europe who would boast about working in tandem with Tony Blair. Whereas most decent human beings would shudder at having to be in the same room as the murdering lying so and so, mm boasts about working with him as if the outcome will be honest and beneficial.
Still we are all judged on the company we keep, pound to a penny that MM likes Cliff and the Gibb brothers too.
Whether MM is a tout I have no idea, but he is certainly a tool of the British State politically, and one they saw coming long ago, Does anyone today seriously doubt John Majors statement that MM asked for HMG help to end the war?
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 04:52 PMMickhall
You have your ear to the ground more than I have. If SF call this meeting to support the PSNI/UVF what are the chances of a walkout similar to that in 1969 which lead to the birth of the provos.
This lead to the feuds that I remember from the 70’s and they were not fun.
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 05:10 PMI have heard from a good source that a breakthrough between SF and the DUP is happening as we type. meetings taking place all over the xmas period. Sf coming out alright from it! DUP relenting.
let’s see what happens.Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 05:23 PMmickhall
It’s not for McGuinness to pick the British PM. It is a unionist thing to want to tell the other side who can represent them. If Gordon Brown or John Reid took over tomorrow Sinn Fein would be happy to talk to them.
getonwithit
Your name says it all. Do the deal and feck the begrudgers on all sides. They have nothing to offer anyway.
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 05:44 PM’Considering all that Scappaticci did and dispatched in his role in IRA “security”, or what Donaldson was doing in his two decades as a British agent, amongst countless others, any Shinner has a bit of cheek using that to needle the likes of Ingram with. It isn’t Ingram that should be put to, now, is it? ‘
Ingram, I like the new name.
1. I am not Ingram.
I don’t see any of those you name on Slugger telling the world who or who are republicans, just your fine self.
2. Take your head out of the sand then you may see better. Scappaticci’s role in the IRA was to root out informers and as such he was allegedly responsible for the deaths of between 30-40 volunteers. Was that not a form of deciding who was and was not a republican? And Scappaticci a British agent himself.
Donaldson’s role in the Republican Movement was along similar lines, he was used by the British to groom the RM, to decide who was too republican and who would support the policies the Brits were introducing via the Adams think tank.
And yet Martin Ingram is who you (collective directed at the more blind Shinners) choose to needle. Why do you not hold the leadership to account for the choices they made in supporting, promoting, and covering up for the likes of said men?
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 06:11 PMheck,
I doubt they would risk calling a meeting if this were on the cards, the rumor mill has been working in over drive as it always does at such times, what with talk about an AC member being behind the recent death threats, although others have claimed the individual so named, up until the last few weeks at least was still in the Admasite loop.
It should not be over looked that Adams head of intelligence is an apparachik man to the last. Someone once said to me the guy could think up 14 different ways to rob an armored truck or destroy a human life, but he does not have a single independent political thought within his head.
He is in the mould of Felix Dzerzhinsky, who had a passion for setting up fake oppositions to draw those within the party who had dissident thoughts out into the open.
The fact is when the Provos recognize the PSNI few will continue to regard them as Republicans any more, thus the British will have no further use for them, Adams will retire to some comfy corner, the touts at the top will be outed, some people unfairly Im sure. Whilst in time the more ambitious younger shinners will eventually merge with another party or vice versa, the SDLP in the north perhaps, who knows who in the south, as a realignment politically down there is well over due.
Those like Tom Murphy who tweaked the lions tale so gallantly for all those years with such joy and success will be chased from pillow to post, as Adams has already sold him out by refusing to intervene with Bertie and Blair on his behalf. [note the actions of the asset recovery outfits on both sides of the border, they move heaven and earth to get at TM/RM cash, but as to Charlies, well, be sure the fella was a one off]
Ruairi will carry on till he drops and in time will rightly join the pantheon of Republican figures, for it is men and women like O’Bradaigh who, despite all its mistakes and false gods, make Irish republicanism something of real value, as cometh the hour, its tenacity makes all satraps and occupiers sleep uneasily in their beds.
The real question is whether the majority of dissidents who recognize that the days of armed struggle are over for the foreseeable future, will in time be able to come together within an umbrella organization which will continue the struggle by political means throughout the island of Ireland and without bending the knee as the Provos have to the forces of occupation and reaction.
This will be the real test of the generations of Irish republicans who participated in the long war. For if they fail in this, there will be little to show for those years of struggle and sacrifice, let alone the suffering that was inflicted on the innocent.
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 06:14 PMIn case anyone missed it, there’s been an update..
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 06:24 PM‘The real question is whether the majority of dissidents who recognize that the days of armed struggle are over for the foreseeable future, will in time be able to come together within an umbrella organization which will continue the struggle by political means throughout the island of Ireland and without bending the knee as the Provos have to the forces of occupation and reaction.’
This would be a very welcome development, The IRSP has been around 30yrs; the Contras 20 years, as of yet these people have delivered nothing and on current behaviour will still be scratching their arses and wondering what to do in another 30 years time.
What they are is anti SF and seem to reserve most of their vitriol for SF, apparently the enemy (sic) in London has a by ball in all of their deliberations.
If nothing else it is time for these people to put up or shut up. Their military capabilities ensure that they should be embarrassed titling themselves volunteers. One will now find out if their political capabiliites merit them even being dobbed republicans.Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 06:37 PMPerhaps they have decided they cannot continue to leak on this and allow the dissidents to make the running, although I love this bit, “‘an intensive period of discussion within the party’,
As long as it doesn’t take more than a couple of weeks to herd the flock it seems.It might have helped Adams a bit more if MM had nor bragged about his contacts with his PM, as it looks more like orders than negotiations.
By the way what’s the word on how they intend getting around Pete’s point about MI5, what yarn will they spin, the new building will not be completed for MI5 but will instead be turned over to SF as a romper room, sorry advice centre. Any thoughts on this one?
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 06:46 PMIt is all turning into a cosy club, junket junkies them all !!
I am surprised there is not a press conference from the Gibb/Bee Gee mansion in Miami.
The sight of Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Ian Paisley, Tony Blair, Bertie Ahearn and special guests, David Reddaway and Brig Gordon Kerr, posing for pictures dressed in Hawaiian shirts/Miami Vice suits, would give us the real intentions of all concerned, and what a photo.
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 07:01 PMMartin McGuinness, favourite Bee Gee track:
“Staying Alive”
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 07:03 PMThe IRSP has been around 30yrs; the Contras 20 years, as of yet these people have delivered nothing
Pat,
Carry on spitting on the graves of Patsy O’Hara, Mickey Devine and Kevin Lynch, I realize you do not intend to do so, but that is the road you have chosen. As someone said, it is not such a big step from supporting the uniform of the PSNI to putting it on, etc.
As to SF, what have they delivered, nothing, every thing they have received has come via London in exchange for SF making major concessions. Of course dissident Republicans attack SF, for it is SFs leaders who are selling the crown jewels for a pocket full of glass, which in time will turn out to be worthless.
You may feel it is fine to sit on your arse and cheer whilst Adams does this, but others do not.
I will just say this to you Pat, if you cannot see that the GFA is the offspring of the British State and to attack and undermine this agreement, is to attack the British government and one of its core policies at that, then you have lost all political judgement.
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 07:08 PMSure, Mick, Pat McL doesn’t think Scap was a tout, how can he have any political judgement?
Posted by on Dec 28, 2006 @ 07:11 PM
